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Old 14th Dec 2009, 02:26   #1 (permalink)
 
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easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract

In the last few days I have become aware of an outrageous deal between easyJet and CTC. This contract is akin to slavery and has been offered within the last week to CTC cadets who have finished their ATPLs and are swimming in the hold pool awaiting a type-rating. They have had less than a week's notice and had to accept on the spot for a start date today (14/12/2009). I have had to wait to have a number of independent verifications before publishing, but these are the bare bones:


easyJet will no longer pay for type-ratings for their cadets. Instead, they require any CTC cadet who wishes to work for them to sign a 3-year contract. The contract involves the candidate paying for his own Airbus type rating at a cost of £28k. The contract only basically pays the cadet if he flies, and there is no guarantee whatsoever of minimum hours. They are saying a cadet can expect to fly 650 hours but there is no guarantee that will be the case. Therefore, for example, if in year 3 they do not need him to fly then he will just not be rostered and will not receive a penny in pay. At the end of the contract there is no guarantee whatsoever of future employment. Indeed, it would be reasonable to assume that there is a virtual guarantee of being kicked out on the street with nothing to make room for the next lucky candidates. Of the £28k type rating cost, £4k must be paid up front. The other £24k is borrowed from easyJet/CTC and paid back over 3 years. If the cadet leaves before 3 years, the £28k must be paid back in full. During type-rating training, pay is £500 per month. Thereafter the pay is £1200 per month with no flight pay up to the 6 month mark. After that you get paid £48 an hour (presumably block hours) with £20 an hour deducted to go towards TR cost (ie £28/hour clear). I believe, but cannot verify, that once the outstanding £24k is paid you stop paying for the type rating rather than continue paying anyway for 3 years, but there is a question even about that. On 650 hours it will take about 2 years to pay off the type rating. Adding these figures up mean that the salary for a CTC cadet flying 650 hours per year will be as follows:

Year 1: Approx £15k

Year 2: Approx £18,200

Year 3: Approx £31,200 (assuming you have paid off your TR costs and that they keep you flying)

Also, the salary does not cover loan repayments. Most CTC cadets have loans of around £60k to cover training and I am told payments are around £1000 a month. That means that a cadet literally cannot afford the loan payments in the first year yet alone pay for food, accommodation or a pair of socks to wear.

However you dress this up, this is a grotesque abuse of young pilots and constitutes the worst terms and conditions that I am personally aware of in the history of commercial jet aviation in the UK.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 02:56   #2 (permalink)
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As a long-term wannabe myself, this makes me sick... I have always heeded advice on here and very rarely post on such subjects as i prefer to let the pro's do the talking (WWW et al) but this is just beyond belief...

Looking on other forums, wannabe cadets much younger than me believe that if you get on CTC Wings you've 'got it made', no one can tell them any other as you will 'shatter their dreams'. I wonder how long before such practice becomes illegal?

Coincidently, a guy i have known since school came up to me the other day, bragging about being offered a place at CTC with a view to being taken on by Emerites?! Wasnt aware CTC provided lambs for them to slaughter (though pretty sure they are a good airline), worst thing is this guy, far as i know, has no interest in flying other than the status he believes he will get... Is this what the intergrated schools are churning out these days?

I think i will stick to my guns, listen to my very good PPL instructor and do all of my flying in the UK as and when i can afford it, thats if i decide to go into this business and not just fly for fun on a PPL.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 04:05   #3 (permalink)
 
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Maybe people will realise that flying as a profession is finished.Getting out of bed at 4a.m. to fly 4 sectors with no food,interline,pension,night stops,flying a 737 or 319 for the rest of your days,living the dream!Do yourselves a big favour go work in Tesco ,at least you will have some dignity left.Don't line the pockets of modern day mill owners like Stavros and the Irish git!
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 04:14   #4 (permalink)
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Seriously?

Wow.

You've got to be pretty thick to accept something like that. There is simply no logical reason for a rational person to sign a contract like that.

I mean, being desparate for a job doesn't even come into it, at that kind of money, even in a deep recession. You have to remember that these are people who committed to their training after Northern Rock went bust.

I don't actually see what's wrong with stuff like this. Paying punters get cheap and mostly fairly safe flights for their holidays. Dreamboats who think they'll look cool in a pilots uniform get to think they look cool in a pilots uniform and airline owners get to make profit.

There are far better ways of earning a living for anyone with a typical pilots intellect.

I feel sorry for the old guys though - those who are too old to change careers. But then no career is for life these days.

Last edited by v6g; 14th Dec 2009 at 04:48.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 05:00   #5 (permalink)
 
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Everyone who has been offered this contract signed up to this scheme long before northern rock went bust, and when times were good, loans were unsecured, and this was the best ticket in town. Do you think people would have signed up for this program knowing this would be the outcome?!? Well, the sad thing is they would and they are, but those of us in the pool did not, and are pretty sick at the state of things compared to where they were when we started and what we signed up for.

You say there is no rational reason to accept this contract, but the only rational reason I can think is that you just spend two and a half years of your life working your butt off for this opportunity, and during that time, T's and C's have eroded to this level. And this is now your ONLY choice! There are no other jobs, no instructor positions, no entry level turbo prop jobs... this is it. And the jobs we left to make this happen have also suffered the effects of the economy and are no longer there for us to go back to... so your choice is simple, go bankrupt at tesco or go bankrupt flying the plane you spent years working towards and a life time dreaming about.

Having said that, I do not think I would sign up for this. Not good at all
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 07:37   #6 (permalink)
 
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Is this scheme still running?

I mean in the same or similar manner to how it was a couple of years ago? It seemed to depend heavily on generous terms from a bank, which in turn must have depended on reliable payments coming back from the qualified CTC guys. I imagine that that has become a problem.

And does anyone want to sign up for this amount of debt/risk in the current climate?

Not a critique of CTC, just interested.

CC
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 07:59   #7 (permalink)
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Loans now have to be on a secured basis. Your or your parents house etc, via BBVA bank I believe. Or one could be of independent means...

CTC run regular, well attended, recruitment events and have never stopped sending new cadet pilots out to New Zealand. Some of those swimming in the resultant pool at the end are growing quite weary. Understandably.


WWW
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 08:43   #8 (permalink)
 
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There is gross over-supply of young hopefuls therefore airlines and training organisations are determinedmined to make them pay for their own training and TR whilst giving no guarantees. The lesson is clear. The party is over, for now at least. Don't become a commercial pilot. Do (almost) anything else.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:17   #9 (permalink)
 
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At least their balpa subs will be cheap.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:34   #10 (permalink)
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Cheers Norman, not that they could do anything as we wont be employed by anyone. We are literally an appliance to them, we have a use and when a better, cheaper to run one comes along we will be discarded or sold on to someone with a need that can't afford the 'training relationship'.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:37   #11 (permalink)
 
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Hmmmm choice choices:

1) Accept the deal, go bankrupt on day one of type rating and then your training has only cost you £28K instead of £70k. Nice but you then contribute to the massive demise of T&C's throughout the entire aviation industry as the race to the bottom goes nuclear.

2) Don't accept the deal. Your mate does and you go bankrupt anyway and you still don't have a flying job (good luck finding one at the moment!). Although you can then start again and join a profession where there is a chance of a real career!

If this comes into pratice we are all screwed. This will affect everyone starting from the bottom up. It will have an impact whoever you work for and whatever you fly.

We....need.....to.....stop.....this. The guys this affects cannot fight their corner. We need to do it for them. We just cannot afford to sit idly by and let this happen.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:42   #12 (permalink)
 
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It seems BALPA aren't interested in it. These guys/girls are the future of the industry and they are being left out to dry by both BALPA, CTC and easyJet.

Shame on BALPA if they let this continue. I would like to see them stand up for this.

It makes me so so angry I work for an airline that can treat it's 'future' like this at the outset. This will be the precedence for other airlines. You watch.

easyJet send current pilots safety missives saying 'don't come to work with things on your mind', then recruit a load of new F/O's who can barely afford to make ends meat on a draconian contract which benefits 2 people. Them and CTC. CTC will no doubt do the type rating for which they are not paying anywhere near 28K. That was what CTC used to bill easyJet for each cadet at the end of the 6 month period on contract offer.

Now it seems easyJet have turned around and said they aren't paying that, so guess what, CTC have passed that onto the 'customer'. Where else in the world can you spend that much money and be treated like such a child. Why don't CTC charge cost or take a hit on the profits?

Safety is easyJet's number 1 priority, when it doesn't cost too much.

One day they will learn the very hard way if they continue on this cost cutting drive and there will be a media storm over this and everything else. You watch...

Last edited by TRon; 14th Dec 2009 at 12:52.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:46   #13 (permalink)
 
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But we do!!
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:52   #14 (permalink)
 
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"During type-rating training, pay is £500 per month. Thereafter the pay is £1200 per month with no flight pay up to the 6 month mark. After that you get paid £48 an hour (presumably block hours) with £20 an hour deducted to go towards TR cost (ie £28/hour clear). I believe, but cannot verify, that once the outstanding £24k is paid you stop paying for the type rating rather than continue paying anyway for 3 years, but there is a question even about that. On 650 hours it will take about 2 years to pay off the type rating. Adding these figures up mean that the salary for a CTC cadet flying 650 hours per year will be as follows: Year 1: Approx £15k Year 2: Approx £18,200 Year 3: Approx £31,200 (assuming you have paid off your TR costs and that they keep you flying)"

Does anyone know if you get sector pay on top of these figures, once you're out of the 6 months line experience? That could add another £5k a year which makes it look a little less stark...
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:53   #15 (permalink)
 
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Unrealistic ambitions.....

Quote:
There are no other jobs, no instructor positions, no entry level turbo prop jobs...
Oh dear, oh dear. Flybe, Eastern, Highland etc have all been recruiting over the last 18-24 months. Flybe recently took on another 16 guys ex-Jerez. They won't pay for their rating and I think may have been part-sponsored. They'll certainly be paid more than the above scheme, with a proper contract, a pension, proper staff travel and the prospect of TP command or RHS medium jet in just three-four years. It ain't perfect but it ain't CTC.

The misguided notion, fed to ab-initios, that they can expect to complete their training and go straight to the RHS of an A320/737 is, in part, to blame for this scramble to the bottom. Direct RHS seat of a medium jet has always been for the minority of ab-initios, NOT the majority. Flying schools, blinkered wannabes and plentiful credit have not helped our industry.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 09:55   #16 (permalink)
 
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It is sheer madness. I am sorry, but how are you suppose to support a family, Pay bills,live and pay your training costs back? It shocks me when I hear people brandishing figures round for TR.....It's only another 30K . I am sorry 30k is a lot of money to me...or should I say a lot of work to pay it off!!!
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 10:02   #17 (permalink)
 
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Also, I sincerely hope easyJet pilots and the easyJet CC, invoke a meaningful and effective response to this. As muted on another forum - the refusal to fly with any pilot on this "contract" could benefit industry T&Cs and the unfortunate, broke FO who might be put on a reasonable contract as a result.

A stand (last stand methinks) must be taken.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 10:57   #18 (permalink)
 
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The problem is, if you put the cadets on a decent salary, you will only attract more. For those who want this pay-your-way-into-a-jet nonsense to stop this is good news. BALPA and the easy crews on 'I'm alright jack' contracts will do nothing to stop this. They will moan and groan, but do nothing. They will commiserate the poor unfortunates when they are serving tea to the flight deck whilst working as cabin crew, but do nothing. If I'm wrong I'll happily eat my hat.

The only way this will stop is when the greedy slave traders at easy/CTC make things so bad that people stop training this way, and/or cannot get finance. Unfortunately, I think there will still be plenty of starry eyed youngsters and proud mums and dads to make this latest nonsense a goer.

In what other industry do companies take on inexperienced people when there are plenty of highly qualified and unemployed workers around?

Quote:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak outóbecause I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outóbecause I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outóbecause I was not a Jew;
Then they came for meóand there was no one left to speak out for me.
How true is this old poem of the aviation industry today. Everyone is too busy saving their own skin to give a toss about anyone else.
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 11:33   #19 (permalink)
 
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Dear ladies and gentlemen,


I am sorry for you CTC cadets, but nobody forced you to go and sign with your pay to fly scheme in New Zeland!!!! You wanted to get a job directly from the flight school straight to an A319 at easyjet with no experience whatsoever, just by PAYING.

And now you are crying

Cadets at Ryanair and easyjet are the cancer of the aviation. You are paying the bill yourselves guys!
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Old 14th Dec 2009, 11:54   #20 (permalink)
 
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Let us be absolutely clear about this - BALPA are most definitely interested in what is going on. They are locked into major conflict with the company on a whole host of issues and this is merely an attempt to outflank BALPA and effectively keep low-houred easyJet pilots outside of their protection. Both CTC and easyJet managers are increasingly ruthless in their attempt to destroy the power of the pilots. I invite the numerous union-haters on these forums to watch with alarm what a world without union protection at easyJet would look like.

In the last few days, I have significantly hardened my position, and wish that to be known. I had hoped that maybe Andy Harrison et al had learned the importance of dealing well with their employees. Somehow there is a disconnect in their thinking and they imagine that if they say they want easyJet to be 'a great place to work' that it will magically become so without any changes. They think that if they destroy the lives of people joining the company and just say soothing words to current pilots, then all will be well and no one will notice something is wrong. These people are without conscience and are aligning themselves up for major industrial strife. I personally cannot sit back and watch deals like this being offered and remain silent. This is straight back to the days of gin parlours and young children dying on the streets of London, Liverpool and Glasgow. Given the massive debt incurred in getting a flying licence in the first place, and the associated monthly payments, this is poverty on a plate. It would not be possible to physicaly buy crumbs to put in your mouth on this 'salary' and still pay your loan. I hear that a number of CTC cadets are about to go bankrupt as the only means available to them to be free of debt. This is the lunatics running the asylum - how can such a situation be acceptable in terms of flight safety and alone? I have reticent up to now to go for strike action - that situation has changed for me since I became aware of this easyJet/CTC deal. This is the final straw for me that showed we are dealing with moral bankrupts who simply have to be confronted. There are many legalities to be resolved here and this will not be easy. Nonetheless, I trust that even the most head-in-the-sand BALPA member can see the clear and present danger to every single pilot at easyJet. We simply have to confront this insane situation, plus all the other issues like B-scales, European contracts etc. There is no doubt that Training Captains like me have an acceptable deal, but that is no longer the issue for me. I cannot sit back and watch my colleagues face these attacks and do nothing to assist. I will therefore do whatever our union representatives require to see this through to an accpetable conclusion. I trust that many others will join me.
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