Knee Trembler

Hi,

After a couple of very happy years working for my present employer, we are starting to spend increasingly more time away from home, which is forcing me to look around for another job.

Ignoring the issue of money, which companies currently offer the best quality of life, as measured by time in one's own bed, (or at least the bed of one's choice ;-) ), stable rosters and vaguely sensible shift patterns?

EZY and Flybe both spring to mind. Do Flybe Dash crews spend a lot of time away from base?

I know there is always Ryan air - but... !

Any thoughts gratefully appreciated.

KT.

six-sixty

Flybe Dash crews? Over Summer most captains where I am based are spending a heck of a lot of time away from home as there seems to be a permenent shortage of them everywhere. The roster pattern is generally 5/2 or 6/3, typically 3 earlies then 2-3 lates maybe with a standby in the middle. Short notice changes are frequent and always have been. There is a small amount of protection from roster changes, but basically if they want to nail you they can (though there used to be none whatsoever so it is improving a bit)

Lifestyle? It's horses for courses but their vindictive policy of finishing us on lates before days off (home about 2300) and starting us earlies coming back means you'll have to choose between having a life or spending most of your days off in bed - not in the nice sense. It's the reason a lot of us don't see Flybe as a long term lifestyle choice.

ATB, SS

Captain Planet

From what I am hearing, RYR has never been a better place to work right now.

Good Roster, Back to home base every day, Cute hostees, Good pay for Direct entry such as yourself I would imagine, Command within a year if you are direct entry with on type hours. The only problem with RYR is if you go to them as your first job, well then that's a totally different ball game.

Don't discount them just for being low cost!

CP.

Knee Trembler

Hmm, six-sixty, this is rather what I feared. So the chap in the rather idyllic picture on the website is wearing his uniform because it's hardly worth getting changed then;-).

A great shame, as I was hoping it might be a nice four earlies, four lates set up with plenty of time to kiss the dog and pat the wife!

So, Capt P, maybe Ryr isn't so bad after all. I might suspend judgement and have another look.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

KT

Cloud Bunny

KT
I would suggest you definately look into FR. I'm an F/O and whilst I am actively looking for a new job, this is purely for my own personal lifestyle issues and career aspirations not because I hate and despise the company.
I asssume you will be looking at a DEC position?
The general facts are; 5 on/4 off fixed roster pattern (it will not change unless you specifically request), no nightstops anywhere at all (unless a/c goes tech, which they don't anyway), although the benefits package is a bit limited the money is good (my p60 showed I grossed £60k last year as an F/O) and it certainly is nice to be able to plan your life years in advance if you need to. The Annual Leave system is ridiculously complicated and that can be a bit frustrating at times as the Rostering dept can be a bit slow at times to process the requests. Generally all your colleagues will be top notch, very nice people (I have only flown with a few guys who'd I'd rather not meet again - purely a personality thing rather than being crap pilots).
On my Type Rating course, most were DEC's and all are still in the company (as far as I am aware) and the guys I am still in regular contact with have no regrets about joining and are throughly enjoying it (these guys came from EZY, FLYBE, XL and TCX).
Obviously it's an individual choice but I would certainly consider it and do some research - if possible talk to guys already in the Company, there is an awful lot of BS about FR doing the rounds. And unless it's changed you wont have to pay for the TR-none of the DEC guys on my Course did (none had 737 experience, the EZY guy was Airbus) and were being payed basic salary from Day One of starting the TR.
Like I said, give it a look.

Jetsurf

Quality of life is my primary concern as I am looking for a new job worldwide.
After working for a recently bankrupt airline, where I enjoyed the best lifestyle possible, I am very discouraged by what most non US carriers are offering.
Could anyone please verify the information below about Ryan?

At initial contract signing I pick three bases, correct?
I could however be assigned anywhere!!!
Could I wait for my choices to come up?
If I am at my desired base and upgrade is available elsewhere, do I have to take it?
Can I bid to upgrade in particular domiciles only?
I have heard the rules may be quite random, or anything may be negotiable if they need you.
I have heard of a direct entry captain (DEC?), who negotiated into his contract a clause that he would ONLY be assigned "Mediterranean" bases!
(France, Italy, Spain or Greece potentially) Or he is out...
Are they sometimes willing to jump over hoops for high time, current, NG captains? How about high time FOs? (Fast Track) It is quite vague...
Ohhh the power of leverage...
Thank you very much for your replies.

winkle

I stopped being an airline pilot and my quality of life has improved hugely!
I now work for myself, much harder work both physically and mentally but very rewarding. i dont think there is the perfect job you just have to go where is best for you. as for bonds .... ram em!

Cloud Bunny

No need, if you read my Post properly:

It obviously has changed, I was merely passing on knowledge from my first hand experience a few years ago. A few years is a long time in aviation hence why I didn't give the information as a definitive, but rather suggested that Knee Trembler investigate all the options and latest information regarding this.
I am not an ardent supporter of all things Ryanair, nor do I seek to destroy their reputation at the first opportunity, like some. I merely thought Knee Trembler might appreciate some information. Apologies, I'll never speak in a positive tone again.

Knee Trembler

Cloud Bunny.

Sorry you got flamed on my account.

I, for one, appreciated you taking the time to reply and also appreciated the non-judgemental tone of your post. I suspect I am not alone.

All the best,

KT

Jetsurf

Thanks to both Cloud Bunny and pressman, for their info.
I am looking at Ryan as an option, but only if I can have a desirable base, from which I will not be involuntarily moved for any reason.
I have been there, done that...
At this point in my life, my family is a higher priority than any airline.
I certainly appreciate winkle's opinion.
Thanks again to all.
I guess it would be best to try to get everything in writing from Ryan!

Sky Goose

Dear KT,

Some thought on my experience with Ryan as a new f/o.

I did my type Rating in April 07, there were two DEC on my course, they did not pay for their TR's and were collecting pay from the start of the type rating course.
Might have changed since then, but would find it hard to believe, dont think DEC's would be interested in Ryan otherwise.
Im on a 5/4 roster, home every night, typically have 4 work days one standby and 4 off, fly between 75-85 hours a month, live 20 mins from the airport.
My wife has a part time job and I seem to be home more than her ! So all in all it works well, great to be home with the kids and potter about the house when everyone else is on their 9-5 !

all the best

Errol Sinclair

Hi
Have to agree with six-sixty regarding Flybe. Poor scheduling agreement (roster changes common - this includes unrostered nightstops), start on earlies, finish on lates and the whole cycle repeats itself.
When things are quieter you do get home most nights!

I left because my quality of life was poor.

Errol

Maude Charlee

Couldn't agree less with the Flybe experience. Depends entirely on base and fleet. I have a very stable roster, limited changes, very few calls from standby, and 2 nightstops in 2 years (currently the cause of some aggro as I'm missing out on all the nightstop fun ).

Only know of 3 guys who left to go to FR, and they all left within a matter of months as they couldn't stand the company.

Guttn

Jetsurf, have you looked into Netjets? 6/5 roster and gateways rather than bases - meaning you begin your roster at your gateway airport and end at the same place. And then you have 5 days off. It seems they don`t pay that bad either.

My 2 cents worth.... If an outfit seems dodgy, or at least very shaky, it`s a better idea to look elsewhere. And if it also means, in these "pilot shortage" (almost at least) days, that you have to buy your way in, then you really should opt for another company.

Johnny F@rt Pants

The money's by no means the attraction, but you're home most of the time, the people you fly with are great and we average 400-700 hours pre year dependent on base/fleet. There's no roster pattern, but to be honest we don't really need one, even in the busy weeks of summer we're probably not exceeding 70 hours per month very often .

JFP

Jetsurf

Thanks (takk), Guttn for the netjets referral.
I am mostly interested in Ryan because of the "home at nigh" lifestyle.
I have been away too long from my wife and kids and it nearly cost me.
In the USA, netjets has a 7on 7off pattern.
I would only go to Europe if I can be home every night.
That is the ONLY reason for my interest in Ryan.

Johnny F@rt Pants:
which company are you referring to?

Knee Trembler

JFP was referring to Jet2.

KT

tonker

Again at Jet2. Have done 1100 hrs in 2 1/2 years.