VirginBlue Pay/Conditions
Join Date: Sep 2003
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longjohn, probably more like the 168K mark after you take leave.
You can still only do 900hrs/year, and I think the average 14 days off in 28 over the whole pilot body is a bit of a furphy, as it will be impossible to monitor it.
They have totally disregarded promised payrises that are in the current EBA for adopting the new work rules. I dont have time to list all the holes in the proposed agreement (there are many), maybe someone else who knows would like to?
You can still only do 900hrs/year, and I think the average 14 days off in 28 over the whole pilot body is a bit of a furphy, as it will be impossible to monitor it.
They have totally disregarded promised payrises that are in the current EBA for adopting the new work rules. I dont have time to list all the holes in the proposed agreement (there are many), maybe someone else who knows would like to?
Join Date: Aug 2005
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The PROPOSAL by tweedleDUMB and tweedleDUMBER is extraordinarly bad. There is basically not a single thing that could be construed as positive in the entire thing. It really is about time people woke up to reality and voiced their concern through a very definitive NO vote. How you could possibly sign your life away to 5 years of that rubbish is inconceivable. Without doubt the most regressive, underhanded EBA proposal this country has ever seen. A disgrace!
Join Date: May 2000
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Ok this will no doubt get out, so ill spill the beans this time round. In a pre-poll sample 190 pilots voted on this document, on the VB equivalent of the Qrew room. The result to this insulting offer was 95% No.
Wonder what tweedleDUMB and tweedleDUMBER think now?
Wonder what tweedleDUMB and tweedleDUMBER think now?
Join Date: Oct 2003
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My 2 cents.
I am not a DJ driver but from what I can tell from the offer is that there are 2 massive improvements.
One is an overtime rate as opposed to just a salary. 68.3 stick per 28 days equates to 74.4 per calendar month. Anything above that is gravy so doing 77 hours a month is an EXTRA $5000 per year (not including 6 weeks leave) and thats not too hard. That is a bloody good pay rise! The way I read it this also goes up 3% as does the annual bonus (more than QF Shorthaul have been offered).
Second is an improved rostering system that guarantee's 10 days off per 28 days. I believe that there is an improved bidding program as part of it as well. These will significantly improve lifestyle as well.
It's more money if you do the hours and its a better lifestyle as well. Not bad.
I think that some might not be looking at it by comparison to your old salary system and haven't considered the overtime bit.
One thing I wouldn't do is sign up for 5 years though if that is an option. In 3 years I think pilots may be worth more as the market struggles for experienced crew and that could help get better than 3%.
Just my 2 cents.
One is an overtime rate as opposed to just a salary. 68.3 stick per 28 days equates to 74.4 per calendar month. Anything above that is gravy so doing 77 hours a month is an EXTRA $5000 per year (not including 6 weeks leave) and thats not too hard. That is a bloody good pay rise! The way I read it this also goes up 3% as does the annual bonus (more than QF Shorthaul have been offered).
Second is an improved rostering system that guarantee's 10 days off per 28 days. I believe that there is an improved bidding program as part of it as well. These will significantly improve lifestyle as well.
It's more money if you do the hours and its a better lifestyle as well. Not bad.
I think that some might not be looking at it by comparison to your old salary system and haven't considered the overtime bit.
One thing I wouldn't do is sign up for 5 years though if that is an option. In 3 years I think pilots may be worth more as the market struggles for experienced crew and that could help get better than 3%.
Just my 2 cents.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Emirates Capt Salary
you think that virgin blue pay bad!!
Try this and dont factor tax into it!! because at the end of the day you are living at home in your home country not in the FRUGGN sand pit!!
CAPTS are paid 121 300 AUD per year. Overtime is based on 78 or 76 hrs or above depending if its 30 or 31day month!! at the measly rate of 140 aud an hour. So Virgin Blue (yes i know there is taxation ) still pays its CAPTS 25 to 30k per year more than EMIRATES pays its CAPTS AND 40 to 50 percent more on overtime rates!! and receiving overtime having worked ten hours less than EMIRATES pilots.
CAPTS are treated like packhorses at EMIRATES and are expected to in robot like fashion do a 40 hour 9day trip to OZ have a day and a half off to recover before heading north to EUROPE.We are THE ONE OF MOST productive pilot groups in the world.
So i realize that your EBA is not that great but at least you can sort of negotiate!!
OHH as a by thought 8 days off a month THATS IT!!
Again there is no official income TAX YET but hidden tax in DUBAI is horrendous .
At the end of the day EMIRATES pays its pilots significantly less than most major airlines around the world (GROSS) which is why this company WILL ALWAYS with the current pay and conditions make VAST profits on the backs of us all!!
Try this and dont factor tax into it!! because at the end of the day you are living at home in your home country not in the FRUGGN sand pit!!
CAPTS are paid 121 300 AUD per year. Overtime is based on 78 or 76 hrs or above depending if its 30 or 31day month!! at the measly rate of 140 aud an hour. So Virgin Blue (yes i know there is taxation ) still pays its CAPTS 25 to 30k per year more than EMIRATES pays its CAPTS AND 40 to 50 percent more on overtime rates!! and receiving overtime having worked ten hours less than EMIRATES pilots.
CAPTS are treated like packhorses at EMIRATES and are expected to in robot like fashion do a 40 hour 9day trip to OZ have a day and a half off to recover before heading north to EUROPE.We are THE ONE OF MOST productive pilot groups in the world.
So i realize that your EBA is not that great but at least you can sort of negotiate!!
OHH as a by thought 8 days off a month THATS IT!!
Again there is no official income TAX YET but hidden tax in DUBAI is horrendous .
At the end of the day EMIRATES pays its pilots significantly less than most major airlines around the world (GROSS) which is why this company WILL ALWAYS with the current pay and conditions make VAST profits on the backs of us all!!
Last edited by BIKKERDENNAH; 13th Nov 2006 at 08:10. Reason: not finished
Join Date: Aug 2005
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BIK... and SHRAGS. I don't think you have been given many of the facts. The pay rise is an aberation as they have a 7% diff between the ROSTERED hours and the ACTUAL hours flown. With the current pilot numbers and yearly flight hours across the company, no-one will get any overtime next year. NO-ONE!!!
So there is NO extra money!
That was red herring #1.
#2. They will give 10 days off in 28 which sounds great. But they are attached with all sorts of conditions, too numerous to go into here. So the lifestyle option is utter BS.
#3. Opportunity. There is NO international flying on the table. Only the Embraer. So Captains have NO opportunity at all while SOME of the F/O's can trade their life away for 4 years (with more conditions attached) and be bonded (in a company they have already spent years with) for the 4 year duration. Pathetic.
There are so many holes in this thing it is a joke. I like many others, smell a rat and don't trust these parasites as far as I could throw them. Watch this space I think!!
So there is NO extra money!
That was red herring #1.
#2. They will give 10 days off in 28 which sounds great. But they are attached with all sorts of conditions, too numerous to go into here. So the lifestyle option is utter BS.
#3. Opportunity. There is NO international flying on the table. Only the Embraer. So Captains have NO opportunity at all while SOME of the F/O's can trade their life away for 4 years (with more conditions attached) and be bonded (in a company they have already spent years with) for the 4 year duration. Pathetic.
There are so many holes in this thing it is a joke. I like many others, smell a rat and don't trust these parasites as far as I could throw them. Watch this space I think!!
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SOME of the F/O's can trade their life away for 4 years (with more conditions attached) and be bonded (in a company they have already spent years with) for the 4 year duration.
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Geesus Shrags, 10 days off in 28? Sounds too good to be true doesn't it?
Are they 10 days in your home port? Do they include "normal" hours off, ie, night or normal sleeping hours? Are there any weekends involved? Are any of them consecutive days off? For christ's sake, don't be blinded by what seems a "reasonable" offer which then precludes you from having any semblance of a "normal" life!
Are they 10 days in your home port? Do they include "normal" hours off, ie, night or normal sleeping hours? Are there any weekends involved? Are any of them consecutive days off? For christ's sake, don't be blinded by what seems a "reasonable" offer which then precludes you from having any semblance of a "normal" life!
BIKKERDENNAH.....
I know you guys are screwed but it's not that low. A year 7 capt friend of mine gets just a little bit less than me after Tax. He gets $13,400 AUD month or $160,800 year. So don't cry too poor mate.
He pays for nothing apart from food and phone calls. We all have to pay rates, electricity, gas, home insurance, damn expensive petrol for the car, really expensive child education......... etc etc etc.
However I agree that you do seem to work pretty damn hard in EK.
CAPTS are paid 121 300 AUD per year.
At the end of the day EMIRATES pays its pilots significantly less than most major airlines around the world (GROSS)
He pays for nothing apart from food and phone calls. We all have to pay rates, electricity, gas, home insurance, damn expensive petrol for the car, really expensive child education......... etc etc etc.
However I agree that you do seem to work pretty damn hard in EK.
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I wish people would stop banging on about the 10 days off a roster as if that were a benefit. If we as a pilot group could count - it equates to 2 extra days a year. Since we will be signing away the home by 2200 before a day off and operating under a home by 2330 rule could someone please explain the benefits.
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ACMS
A first year captain on at Emirates is on 28000 dhs a month at an exchange rate of 2.77 to the AUD works out to be 121300AUD FACT.
A seventh year skipper cannot possibly be on 165000AUD basic!! UNLESS he is a trainer or he has included overtime into that SUM.
A 7th year skipper at this airline will be on 21 percent MORE than a first year skipper (3 PERC per year increment) which means his basic salary to fly wide body aircaraft for a major around the world with 8 days off a month IS 146800AUD FACT i DO NOT know where 168K came from that is CRAP!!
Anyway the price you pay to live in a great first rate country is TAX and your own mortgage!
So the fact still remains that we must be one of the cheapest pilots in international operations
in the world at present.!! FACT
A first year captain on at Emirates is on 28000 dhs a month at an exchange rate of 2.77 to the AUD works out to be 121300AUD FACT.
A seventh year skipper cannot possibly be on 165000AUD basic!! UNLESS he is a trainer or he has included overtime into that SUM.
A 7th year skipper at this airline will be on 21 percent MORE than a first year skipper (3 PERC per year increment) which means his basic salary to fly wide body aircaraft for a major around the world with 8 days off a month IS 146800AUD FACT i DO NOT know where 168K came from that is CRAP!!
Anyway the price you pay to live in a great first rate country is TAX and your own mortgage!
So the fact still remains that we must be one of the cheapest pilots in international operations
in the world at present.!! FACT
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"So the fact still remains that we must be one of the cheapest pilots in international operations in the world at present.!! FACT"
Not by a long shot BIKK
Our bro's in InZid will beat you to that claim to fame!
Con
Not by a long shot BIKK
Our bro's in InZid will beat you to that claim to fame!
Con
Nunc est bibendum
Good luck to EK though. I'm sure that GD would love to be able to pay QF drivers about half as much and not have to bother with paying tax on our behalf. Actually, I'd be happy to be on about half as much and not have to bother with tax too! Lets have a look at some of the other issues add ons.
You get housing supplied. FACT.
You get utilities supplied. FACT.
You get medical supplied. FACT.
All these should be added to your total package of remuneration if we're talking about the 'expense' of crew. Therefore you're not as cheap as you reckon you are.
A 7th year skipper at this airline will be on 21 percent MORE than a first year skipper (3 PERC per year increment) which means his basic salary to fly wide body aircaraft for a major around the world with 8 days off a month IS 146800AUD FACT i DO NOT know where 168K came from that is CRAP!!
A very good friend of mine is on 7 or 8 year Captain pay, we compared money after tax. He was only just a bit behind my CX B scale after Tax pay. He may have included overtime? I don't know.
However he gets most other things for free.
I was surprised to hear how much he got paid, but that is what he told me. Perhaps he was fibbing?
In my humble opinion they don't pay you guys enough to live in the sand pit.
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Sorry to keep up with the derail of this thread, but some of your assertions are wrong Keg old mate. Accomm is paid for in EK but it counts for nought unless you are saving those monies that would be used for housing, or taking the allowance to pay off a home in Dubai.
Medical isn't free we pay, not as much as private insurance at home but paid never-the-less.
We also get provident contributions from the company not taken into account by the initial poster but all in all the wage is poor by most standards.
Most of my mates in the Q who are 76' FOs or 74 SOs with some seniority appear to earn more than me b4 tax (as an ek ca).
Medical isn't free we pay, not as much as private insurance at home but paid never-the-less.
We also get provident contributions from the company not taken into account by the initial poster but all in all the wage is poor by most standards.
Most of my mates in the Q who are 76' FOs or 74 SOs with some seniority appear to earn more than me b4 tax (as an ek ca).
Nunc est bibendum
Fair enough. No one is disputing that your 'up front' rate doesn't look so flash. I'm just trying to point out that there is a lot more to the 'up front' rate than meets the eye and that FACTs aren't always what they seem. I may earn a fair bit more than $120K but I'd bet a considerable amount of it that 'nett' for a QF driver would be less than the 'nett' of an EK driver on an equivalent type.