Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Two sets of hands on the throttles...why?

Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Two sets of hands on the throttles...why?

Old 17th Feb 2011, 17:03
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A few years ago, we had a Flight Engineer who incessently pushed up the throttles very rapidly, and one of our Captains nearly ended up in the weeds....twice.
When this turkey flew with me, I reminded him quite distinctly just who the engines (and their handling) belonged to, and he left the company shortly thereafter.
To everyones complete satisfaction.

Now, I personally prefer to set (approximately) the correct takeoff thrust, then ask the Flight Engineer to...trim throttles.
Everyone seems satisfied, and...it is the company standard procedure.
Imagine that.
411A is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2011, 20:20
  #42 (permalink)  

Dog Tired
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Interesting comments Fantom
G'day mate,

see PM
fantom is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2011, 20:40
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 71
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
411A... good to hear (read) some sensibility!

I don't doubt that there have been some very enthusiastic F/Es who have been over-cautious in the setting of Take-Off Thrust; however, there is a "time and place" to argue about how its all done... the time and place isn't during the Take-Off Roll!

SOPs are all important; including the method in which we achieve them. The fact that a sim instructor pre-briefed a co-pilot to "not respond" to a standard call-out was irresponsible. It might well "prove a point" that we, as humans, are "pre-conditioned" and that the omission (of a standard call-out) could lead-us up the garden path. OK, I accept that there are foibles that could lead us (as flight crew) into making mistakes. The fact remains that if "standard procedures" are adhered-to then we are expectant upon how the remainder of the crew will react to any given situation.

The "methodology" of how Take-Off Thrust is SET i.e. the "rate" at which the thrust is set, should have been demonstrated as part of the "line training" of that particular crewmember. In this particular case it wasn't adequately demonstrated... which has resulted in quite a few "nasty" incidents.

If the previous poster had "handled" his own particular "incident" with a little more "tact" it might well have provided some valuable "instruction" to someone who otherwise might not have known better. However, if that particular individual found some difficulty in understanding what was "wrong" with his particular "technique"... an interview with his Flight Manager might well have gone a long way into "realigning" his thought-process!

To have gone down the route of "bullying tactics" (especially during the Take-Off roll); wasn't the "time or the place" to plan a "bun-fight" with his F/E... the statement that the skipper had a "smile on his face" whilst doing battle with the strength of a lesser individual was tantamount to being wholly irresponsible... especially when the F/Es seat vanished to the rear of the flight deck!

I'd like to provide my own "crass" statement about how well that particular captain "handled" that particular situation... I won't be so rude!

Old Fella... well said!

TCF

Last edited by TheChitterneFlyer; 17th Feb 2011 at 21:30.
TheChitterneFlyer is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2011, 21:46
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gold Coast
Age: 58
Posts: 1,611
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PM sent to OF.
18-Wheeler is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2011, 22:20
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: A tropical island.
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A lot of what I'm reading about "instruction", "aderence", "why [or why not, depending on point of view] call stable" "method in which we achieve [SOPs]" etc. etc. Sound like we're talking about a perfect world with perfect people who perfectly execute every perfectly preconstructed task.

Last I checked, the world ain't perfect. People will be people, and while you can create a procedure which completley eliminated all the problems you may have at hand, you will still need people to execute that procedure, and people will make msitakes, that is certain. The situation in the sim where a CA (of all people simply) looked at the FO and said "you forgot..." speaks volumes.

For one, there's nothing wrong with the sim instructor having the PNF go along with a scenario like that, if the training is supposed to be reflective of the real world, then what happens if the PNF in the real world doesn't in fact say it (for whatever reason, maybe he's having a stroke for all you know, the infamous "incapacitated crewmember" scenario), instead of blazing down the runway at 50 knots and 1.4 EPR maybe the CA should've looked over at the FO, see what's going on, if he's foaming at the mouth and has an otherwise confused look on his face (well, sometimes that's normal ) maybe it's time to close the throttles and take care of this new issue you have. The fact that the CA simply sat there, expecting nothing to go wrong, and not having the ability to move the throttles forward or backward without the guy next to him saying "stable" says to me that he might not be ready to be a CA.
aviatorhi is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2011, 23:38
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 83
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Personal Messages

I have responded to the PM sent to me by 18 Wheeler and, I trust, that is where the matter will lie. Thanks for the encouragement CTF. One good thing about this forum is that we can all learn from it provided it is not vindictive. Some of us, me included, probably need to moderate our tone at times. Happy flying all.
Old Fella is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.