landing a large airliner, a320 etc
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landing a large airliner, a320 etc
Hi All
I have been having lessons in a c152 over the last year or so, recently got to the landing stage.
My question is, are the same techniques used in large airliners such as an a320 etc, when I see these large aircraft land, the nose generally seems nose high on approach, whereas in a light aircraft the nose seems low then raise at the end.
What height is the flare normally for these?
when descending from say 30000ft, do they normally put the throttles to idle to descend?
sorry if they seem basic questions
cheers
I have been having lessons in a c152 over the last year or so, recently got to the landing stage.
My question is, are the same techniques used in large airliners such as an a320 etc, when I see these large aircraft land, the nose generally seems nose high on approach, whereas in a light aircraft the nose seems low then raise at the end.
What height is the flare normally for these?
when descending from say 30000ft, do they normally put the throttles to idle to descend?
sorry if they seem basic questions
cheers
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Basically the techique is similar, it is not the same though. I know quite a few FI teach the touch down with the stall warning just starting to squeak, that would be a huge no-no in an airliner.
The attitude is demanded by the high lift devices and wing layout, unlike most small planes (the morane is somewhat of an exception) airliner wings usually have slats, and sometimes kruger flaps on the leading edges as well as slotted flaps at the trailing edges.
Flare height depends again somewhat on type. I do start the flare on an A320 somewhere between 20 and 30ft, depening on conditions and position in regards to the intended touch down point. Not all that much different to a 737 to be honest, although when transitioning from the 737 to the A320 i had to flare a few feet higher, otherwise the instructors were not all that happy. The 737 has a shorter landing gear and sits a bit lower.
Well, the autothrust usually uses idle (remember, on airbus aircraft the thrust levers do not move in autothrust), again, depending on automation mode and requirements of ATC. The automatics do calculate with an idle descent for their "managed" or "vnav" descend path.
There are some quite well made youtube videos out there that explain a lot of the normal flying in airliners, both by sitting on the flight deck or just direct explanations. A colleague of mine does a nice series if you can stand his german accent (Captain Joe), a colleague from, i believe, ryanair has a nice series as well which is mainly aimed at wannabe airline pilots (Mentour Pilot).
The attitude is demanded by the high lift devices and wing layout, unlike most small planes (the morane is somewhat of an exception) airliner wings usually have slats, and sometimes kruger flaps on the leading edges as well as slotted flaps at the trailing edges.
Flare height depends again somewhat on type. I do start the flare on an A320 somewhere between 20 and 30ft, depening on conditions and position in regards to the intended touch down point. Not all that much different to a 737 to be honest, although when transitioning from the 737 to the A320 i had to flare a few feet higher, otherwise the instructors were not all that happy. The 737 has a shorter landing gear and sits a bit lower.
Well, the autothrust usually uses idle (remember, on airbus aircraft the thrust levers do not move in autothrust), again, depending on automation mode and requirements of ATC. The automatics do calculate with an idle descent for their "managed" or "vnav" descend path.
There are some quite well made youtube videos out there that explain a lot of the normal flying in airliners, both by sitting on the flight deck or just direct explanations. A colleague of mine does a nice series if you can stand his german accent (Captain Joe), a colleague from, i believe, ryanair has a nice series as well which is mainly aimed at wannabe airline pilots (Mentour Pilot).
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Thanks for this 
Some further questions, if I may
So when descending, if atc say descend from fl30 to 20 would you just change the altitude selector to 20 and the aircraft would do the rest? Or do you need to set a vertical speed?
If you were to fly manually, would you just lower the speed? Would you have to point the nose down or do you hold the nose level and the plane will just descend ?
It's great to talk to a real pilot
Some further questions, if I may
So when descending, if atc say descend from fl30 to 20 would you just change the altitude selector to 20 and the aircraft would do the rest? Or do you need to set a vertical speed?
If you were to fly manually, would you just lower the speed? Would you have to point the nose down or do you hold the nose level and the plane will just descend ?
It's great to talk to a real pilot
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Well, i guess that means 300 to 200 
30 would translate to 3000 ft, which is pretty much everywhere below the transition level and would be done as an altitude instead. Anyway, for high altitude descend without restriction the autoflight system usually will use idle thrust and maintain the speed with pitch. In an airbus one has to actively start the descend, either bei engaging managed or open descend or use vertical speed mode. A boeing will start the descend on its own if it is in VNAV (normal mode in cruise) and a lower altitude is selected, but only once it reaches its calculated top of descend. Normal descend (and climb) modes are managed (managed by the Flight managemend computer) in an airbus or VNAV (managed by the flight management computer) in a boeing, however there are other modes available. Open descend (airbus speak) or Level Change (Boeing) uses idle thrust or climb thrust to descend or climb and adjusts the pitch to keep the planned speed. Vertical speed mode is available on both and holds the selected vertical speed, airspeed becomes secondary and will fluctuate especially in a climb where it can drop below the normal speed envelope. However it is a very usefull mode for ATC mandated rates and for small altitude changes where it is often better to use V/S than open climb/descend.
Flying manually is a nice pace of change, but done differently with the airbus fly by wire system than in other airplanes in some parts. The airbus system tries to be flightpath-stable, if one is in level flight and just reduces thrust the airspeed will bleed off, the fly by wire system will increase pitch to hold the flight path (level flight) until it reaches a lower speed limit. Therefore one has to actively control the flight path with the side stick in manual flight. In a boeing, same as in a C150, if one pulls the power pack in manual flight the nose will drop and the aircraft will try to regain its trim airspeed.
30 would translate to 3000 ft, which is pretty much everywhere below the transition level and would be done as an altitude instead. Anyway, for high altitude descend without restriction the autoflight system usually will use idle thrust and maintain the speed with pitch. In an airbus one has to actively start the descend, either bei engaging managed or open descend or use vertical speed mode. A boeing will start the descend on its own if it is in VNAV (normal mode in cruise) and a lower altitude is selected, but only once it reaches its calculated top of descend. Normal descend (and climb) modes are managed (managed by the Flight managemend computer) in an airbus or VNAV (managed by the flight management computer) in a boeing, however there are other modes available. Open descend (airbus speak) or Level Change (Boeing) uses idle thrust or climb thrust to descend or climb and adjusts the pitch to keep the planned speed. Vertical speed mode is available on both and holds the selected vertical speed, airspeed becomes secondary and will fluctuate especially in a climb where it can drop below the normal speed envelope. However it is a very usefull mode for ATC mandated rates and for small altitude changes where it is often better to use V/S than open climb/descend.Flying manually is a nice pace of change, but done differently with the airbus fly by wire system than in other airplanes in some parts. The airbus system tries to be flightpath-stable, if one is in level flight and just reduces thrust the airspeed will bleed off, the fly by wire system will increase pitch to hold the flight path (level flight) until it reaches a lower speed limit. Therefore one has to actively control the flight path with the side stick in manual flight. In a boeing, same as in a C150, if one pulls the power pack in manual flight the nose will drop and the aircraft will try to regain its trim airspeed.
Before the flare there can be differences flying the approach. Partly depends on how you have been taught to fly. When I was initially learning on light aircraft the technique I was taught was pitch controls speed and power controls rate of descent. Sharing simulator sessions with airline pilots they all do it the other way - as do nearly all flying schools training commercial pilopts.
However it is a very long time since I did my PPL so the way I was taught may not be used at all now. Anyone care to comment on this?
However it is a very long time since I did my PPL so the way I was taught may not be used at all now. Anyone care to comment on this?
