Skymark
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skymark
Hello,
This is an information about how it was my Skymark's experience, as i've been there for more than 5 years. Now they are recruiting more foreigner Captains as many are leaving the company. i already left.
I think everybody should know what are the real cons and pros of being there.
I consider Japan as the best country in Asia. Extremelly safe, very good food and nice people. Good for living, but you have to accept his rules and culture, there are many differences to occidental style.
First of all, and it is very important, choose the right agent. IASCO is the one that seems the best, as they have a representative in company's headquarters and after some bad experiences they are the only one who cared most about their pilots. As you may understand living in Japan is sometimes difficult due to language and it is very important to have someone's help and support. Pilots with that agent are happy. i can't tell you they are the same about others.
Come to Skymark if you are unemployed or only if you can get a leave in your current company. Training period could be very long, from 8 months to 1 year. During that time company is always checking if you "deserve" to be flying there or not. if they don't like you you will be discontinue immediatly, without any hesitation. Also be prepared to live during that period in a "matchbox" style house, very small one, everything in 17 square meters.
The success ratio is very low. Many pilots are discontinued during training and others just leave because they don't accept Japanese style. Others fail the last checks, as JCAB (aviation authority in Japan) is old fashioned aviation style and they are very strict with companies and pilots. So the ratio is around 5:1.
Regarding conditions... think about why so many expats pilots are leaving.... In my opinion the market is demanding many pilots and they have the same conditions or even worse as 15 years ago, as they lowered some benefits to senior pilots. The problem is that they don't want to improve at all so they will face the same problem forever.
The commuting is not bad at all, you may return home every month if you want but in my opinion more days off are needed as you will lose much time to commute. Besides that they don't help so much with schedule and your days' off request, so every month is a bit stressful this situation.
Flying in Japan is relatively easy, as operation is extremely standarized. You will follow a book they want you to learn by memory so just follow it.
This is a low cost company so don't expect anything as a regular company. Now they begin to provide uniform. Food is not good and hotels, recently they changed some to better but in general low level.
Absolutely no problem about having your salary paid on time, they are Japanese so they are serious in this matter. But in Skymark they don't treat employees so well, they follow slavery old fashion style way, so you are supposed to follow their instructions and work as they want you to do it.
So please never leave your current company unless you get a leave period for at least one or two years,, just in case as it is very easy to leave.
The screening process is very simple, just an interview and a simulator. Basically they want to see your attitude and flight technique. If they see you will accept their Japanese style and you have a good aircraft control you will pass. After that patience is the word.
Whatever you want to know more in detail just contact me and i will give you more information.
Good luck and take care!
This is an information about how it was my Skymark's experience, as i've been there for more than 5 years. Now they are recruiting more foreigner Captains as many are leaving the company. i already left.
I think everybody should know what are the real cons and pros of being there.
I consider Japan as the best country in Asia. Extremelly safe, very good food and nice people. Good for living, but you have to accept his rules and culture, there are many differences to occidental style.
First of all, and it is very important, choose the right agent. IASCO is the one that seems the best, as they have a representative in company's headquarters and after some bad experiences they are the only one who cared most about their pilots. As you may understand living in Japan is sometimes difficult due to language and it is very important to have someone's help and support. Pilots with that agent are happy. i can't tell you they are the same about others.
Come to Skymark if you are unemployed or only if you can get a leave in your current company. Training period could be very long, from 8 months to 1 year. During that time company is always checking if you "deserve" to be flying there or not. if they don't like you you will be discontinue immediatly, without any hesitation. Also be prepared to live during that period in a "matchbox" style house, very small one, everything in 17 square meters.
The success ratio is very low. Many pilots are discontinued during training and others just leave because they don't accept Japanese style. Others fail the last checks, as JCAB (aviation authority in Japan) is old fashioned aviation style and they are very strict with companies and pilots. So the ratio is around 5:1.
Regarding conditions... think about why so many expats pilots are leaving.... In my opinion the market is demanding many pilots and they have the same conditions or even worse as 15 years ago, as they lowered some benefits to senior pilots. The problem is that they don't want to improve at all so they will face the same problem forever.
The commuting is not bad at all, you may return home every month if you want but in my opinion more days off are needed as you will lose much time to commute. Besides that they don't help so much with schedule and your days' off request, so every month is a bit stressful this situation.
Flying in Japan is relatively easy, as operation is extremely standarized. You will follow a book they want you to learn by memory so just follow it.
This is a low cost company so don't expect anything as a regular company. Now they begin to provide uniform. Food is not good and hotels, recently they changed some to better but in general low level.
Absolutely no problem about having your salary paid on time, they are Japanese so they are serious in this matter. But in Skymark they don't treat employees so well, they follow slavery old fashion style way, so you are supposed to follow their instructions and work as they want you to do it.
So please never leave your current company unless you get a leave period for at least one or two years,, just in case as it is very easy to leave.
The screening process is very simple, just an interview and a simulator. Basically they want to see your attitude and flight technique. If they see you will accept their Japanese style and you have a good aircraft control you will pass. After that patience is the word.
Whatever you want to know more in detail just contact me and i will give you more information.
Good luck and take care!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Saucers original post is a very fair and balanced summation of the joys and challenges of Skymark, just a couple of points to contend or expand upon:
- agents, in my time with IAC had no real problems and (I believe) a good working relationship with various IAC employees, generally agencies have few problems in Japan as it's been ticking over for a while and the processes are pretty well established.
What COULD be said is that all agents are ultimately going to look after their client (Skymark), your agent may well pursue your interests and at times get a positive result - however when final push comes to shove ALL agents will fold, the timing of their folding may vary from agent to agent and situation to situation;
- during your 8-12 months of training/indoctrination it is expected you will remain in Japan regardless of any disasters that may happen back home - that's just the way it's done in Japan and the ongoing mentality that has to, and may indeed, change....one day.
If you force the issue and need to go home anyway it will be noted and will not be a positive note in your ongoing relations with Skymark.
What is fair to say is that for anyone "stuck" on a CRJ/JungleJet size aircraft who wants to get onto something bigger Skymark may be an option, dozens (?) have arrived over the past 5-6 years then departed "home" to Ryan/Norwegian etc etc with 500+ of 737 time under their belt.
Whether the same opportunities will be available in 2/3 years time...????
Cheers!
- agents, in my time with IAC had no real problems and (I believe) a good working relationship with various IAC employees, generally agencies have few problems in Japan as it's been ticking over for a while and the processes are pretty well established.
What COULD be said is that all agents are ultimately going to look after their client (Skymark), your agent may well pursue your interests and at times get a positive result - however when final push comes to shove ALL agents will fold, the timing of their folding may vary from agent to agent and situation to situation;
- during your 8-12 months of training/indoctrination it is expected you will remain in Japan regardless of any disasters that may happen back home - that's just the way it's done in Japan and the ongoing mentality that has to, and may indeed, change....one day.
If you force the issue and need to go home anyway it will be noted and will not be a positive note in your ongoing relations with Skymark.
What is fair to say is that for anyone "stuck" on a CRJ/JungleJet size aircraft who wants to get onto something bigger Skymark may be an option, dozens (?) have arrived over the past 5-6 years then departed "home" to Ryan/Norwegian etc etc with 500+ of 737 time under their belt.
Whether the same opportunities will be available in 2/3 years time...????
Cheers!
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 904
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can anyone please elaborate on the "Japanese way"? For training and work environment ?
The people always seem so polite and efficient. What seems to be the problem ?
Are the standards too high and not realistic ? Is your training mostly theory ?
Also how is the expat to local relationship for both flight deck and cockpit crew ?
The people always seem so polite and efficient. What seems to be the problem ?
Are the standards too high and not realistic ? Is your training mostly theory ?
Also how is the expat to local relationship for both flight deck and cockpit crew ?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Far East
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Santos
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yea I get it, this is thread is about Skymark, that's why I'm asking what you meant! So Skymark is like North Korea? Wow ok that's pretty extreme, but ok...
I take it you haven't worked in China or lived here to really compare one country to an airline?
I take it you haven't worked in China or lived here to really compare one country to an airline?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you galdian for your comments, I agree with you. Regarding agents you hit the point, they are pro company, so consider you are almost alone there, that's why an agent with a representative in company offices is so important. Try to avoid the big agents, small ones care much more of their pilots. As far as I know IASCO and WASINC have people working in Skymark offices and believe me this can be very useful.
Regarding other posts, Japan is much better than other Asian countries. North Korea!! Jajajaja, nothing can be better than North Korea!!!
As a comparison, China as a country, is totally different as well as people. Japanese are more polite and civilizied than Chinese, in my opinion. It doesn't mean you don't match there, in some cases the Chinese way is more similar to occidental one so some people are more comfortable in China. In my case and my experience, Japan is a country where you can live comfortably, specially I consider their food as one of the best things besides the low pollution, even in Tokyo.
The problem is their burocracy in every matter. You may get desperated about that. Be patient.....a lot.
Regarding the questions pfvspnf made, I can say that the training is just to prepare the JCAB type rating and ATPL exam profiles. Everything is focused on that, forget about learning new things about airplane, you will learn by yourself. Everything is to prepare for that exam in simulator. You will be given the profile and you will practice that, it is like a stage play , actually expats call "kabuki" (stage play in japanese) to all their procedures.
People is polite and efficient in japanese normal life. Regarding this company they are also polite and relatively nice people but you will be considered as a number, they don't care about your problems, they don't understand or better said, don't accept you are in a foreign country with totally different culture so you sometimes may have problems. There were several cases that some expat colleagues had a family member in hospital in his country and company denied any leave for that, in both cases I know that at the end the family member passed away and one of them couldn't assist. So that's the kind of things you may face (I hope you won't!), it is like a lack of humanity. In general I consider that Japanese are lack of feelings, they don't care about your rest or whether the duty they assigned is crazy or not, just do it.
The relationship in cockpit is good. You will fly with japanese F/O and most of them are nice. You may find problems with language understsnding , few of them speak english well. The F/O only fly if Captain allows. Everything is set and prepared by them, you just check that everything is correct. The procedures are very strict, so strict that as you know every flight is different (specially wx) so they try to follow those procedures in such a way that they don't think about what is going to happen 5 min ahead. Sometimes I had to take over the control to avoid a CB because in general they are more focused in the "kabuki" or to check left or right in every turn you make rather than think ahead. You have to be careful when you let them fly. But also you will find excellent pilots, you will learn some things from them. But understand that you will fly with very low experienced and young F/Os, so logically you'll encounter that kind of problems. You will also fly with very old and experienced ones.
I have to say that I didn't feel as a Captain, I mean, in terms of responsibility and respect feelings. Company consider Captain same responsibility as a flight dispatcher or a chief flight attendant. Actually everything is done for you, you cannot decide many things, they tell you how much fuel you should load and what route to follow, of course you may change that but they don't expect it.
It is supposed you have to inform flight dispatcher, for example, for any cruise level change or if you deviate wx. I have changed many times and no problem but I always had that kind of feeling that everything is observed and ruled by someone in the office. It is like you just follow instructions or directions.
I have noticed that in the new contracts you will be deducted a bond for the type rating, when I joined no bond was requested from company.Some agents request a penalty fee if you leave the company before the 3 years contract. Other important thing, the 3 years begin whenever you finish all training are you are released as a Capt, so expect min 4 years. Other conditions are the same, no change, and do not expect any improvement.
I hope you have a better idea although It is difficult to explain feelings and points of view.
As Galdian said, for a pilot coming from CRJ “jungle”, for example, it is a good choice but be careful and make the try with a leave from your current company, it is a life insurance….
Cheers!!
Regarding other posts, Japan is much better than other Asian countries. North Korea!! Jajajaja, nothing can be better than North Korea!!!
As a comparison, China as a country, is totally different as well as people. Japanese are more polite and civilizied than Chinese, in my opinion. It doesn't mean you don't match there, in some cases the Chinese way is more similar to occidental one so some people are more comfortable in China. In my case and my experience, Japan is a country where you can live comfortably, specially I consider their food as one of the best things besides the low pollution, even in Tokyo.
The problem is their burocracy in every matter. You may get desperated about that. Be patient.....a lot.
Regarding the questions pfvspnf made, I can say that the training is just to prepare the JCAB type rating and ATPL exam profiles. Everything is focused on that, forget about learning new things about airplane, you will learn by yourself. Everything is to prepare for that exam in simulator. You will be given the profile and you will practice that, it is like a stage play , actually expats call "kabuki" (stage play in japanese) to all their procedures.
People is polite and efficient in japanese normal life. Regarding this company they are also polite and relatively nice people but you will be considered as a number, they don't care about your problems, they don't understand or better said, don't accept you are in a foreign country with totally different culture so you sometimes may have problems. There were several cases that some expat colleagues had a family member in hospital in his country and company denied any leave for that, in both cases I know that at the end the family member passed away and one of them couldn't assist. So that's the kind of things you may face (I hope you won't!), it is like a lack of humanity. In general I consider that Japanese are lack of feelings, they don't care about your rest or whether the duty they assigned is crazy or not, just do it.
The relationship in cockpit is good. You will fly with japanese F/O and most of them are nice. You may find problems with language understsnding , few of them speak english well. The F/O only fly if Captain allows. Everything is set and prepared by them, you just check that everything is correct. The procedures are very strict, so strict that as you know every flight is different (specially wx) so they try to follow those procedures in such a way that they don't think about what is going to happen 5 min ahead. Sometimes I had to take over the control to avoid a CB because in general they are more focused in the "kabuki" or to check left or right in every turn you make rather than think ahead. You have to be careful when you let them fly. But also you will find excellent pilots, you will learn some things from them. But understand that you will fly with very low experienced and young F/Os, so logically you'll encounter that kind of problems. You will also fly with very old and experienced ones.
I have to say that I didn't feel as a Captain, I mean, in terms of responsibility and respect feelings. Company consider Captain same responsibility as a flight dispatcher or a chief flight attendant. Actually everything is done for you, you cannot decide many things, they tell you how much fuel you should load and what route to follow, of course you may change that but they don't expect it.
It is supposed you have to inform flight dispatcher, for example, for any cruise level change or if you deviate wx. I have changed many times and no problem but I always had that kind of feeling that everything is observed and ruled by someone in the office. It is like you just follow instructions or directions.
I have noticed that in the new contracts you will be deducted a bond for the type rating, when I joined no bond was requested from company.Some agents request a penalty fee if you leave the company before the 3 years contract. Other important thing, the 3 years begin whenever you finish all training are you are released as a Capt, so expect min 4 years. Other conditions are the same, no change, and do not expect any improvement.
I hope you have a better idea although It is difficult to explain feelings and points of view.
As Galdian said, for a pilot coming from CRJ “jungle”, for example, it is a good choice but be careful and make the try with a leave from your current company, it is a life insurance….
Cheers!!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You guys should really talk specifically about SKY and not about these things that happen in that company as a rule in every Japanese company....., all those stories about not being a true captain because the dispatcher and the chief purser do the job that you should be doing...., things like they don't allow personal leave to tend to ill family members etc....., that definitely has NOT been my experience in the 10 years I've been at AJX...!
Not saying that what you are saying is incorrect, just pointing out that these are situations at Skymark...., not every Japanese company.
They have their ways and some things that are outright annoying...., but many of those issues aren't present at other gigs.
Not saying that what you are saying is incorrect, just pointing out that these are situations at Skymark...., not every Japanese company.
They have their ways and some things that are outright annoying...., but many of those issues aren't present at other gigs.
Last edited by The Dominican; 11th Sep 2016 at 13:18.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dominican, that's why this thread is ONLY about Skymark, not AJX, read well.
The comments are only from my Skymark experience so i don't know about other companies. I agree that maybe in AJX things are different, could be worse or better. But Japanese style in general is the same for all.
I wrote all that to help others to be careful and aware what is going on in Skymark, pros and cons, the screening process and the kind of living there. Other companies for sure are different.
Sorry if you felt offended.
Take care.
The comments are only from my Skymark experience so i don't know about other companies. I agree that maybe in AJX things are different, could be worse or better. But Japanese style in general is the same for all.
I wrote all that to help others to be careful and aware what is going on in Skymark, pros and cons, the screening process and the kind of living there. Other companies for sure are different.
Sorry if you felt offended.
Take care.
