South Asia and Far East WannabesA forum for those applying to Cathay Pacific, Dragonair or any other Hong Kong-based airline or operator. Use this area for both Direct Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme queries.
You will never afford a descent place to live for your whole career. Your family will breathe the worst polluted air on the planet Your S/O hours dont count You will experience a constant reduction in salary and conditions over your whole career You will always be bumped off trying to get home with staff travel You have no pension
Just curiosity here, why every time there is a post about CX, the responses are mostly "ranting" about this and that at CX. I wonder who are all these people? Do you guys work for CX, furloughed or maybe those who failed to pass an interview with CX? Please be civil while responding!
There are a handful who work at CX, and on the whole, nowhere near as anonymous as they think.
Then you would already know that amongst the posters here are some very senior STCs, several past training and fleet managers, a handfull of past (and present) GC members and a wide mix of North American, Australian, European and Hong Kong based Cathay line pilots.
Of course, if you were an actual line pilot you would know that already. I completely agree that "the vast, vast majority of flight crew are a pleasure to work with, go out down route with.." but strongly disagree that they "are happy."
The level of miscontempt and anger within the pilot group has not been higher since 1999. And as I recall, that was not a -happy- time.
Last edited by whackthemole; 23rd May 2012 at 04:09.
Glad to know that ETOPS240...I will be watching out for these guys. If someone isn't happy with the work place, the best they can do to themselves and others is to quit and do something else instead. Ranting online is a sign of weakness and low self-esteem. Thanks for the feedback though.
I would suspect their reasons vary from fear of persecution to protection of their reputations. If you knew the Cathay history and what happens to those who openly criticize the system, you would also know why the Fragrent Harbour is the unique way that it is. It will also provide an answer to your original question. Develop a personal relationship with any senior pilot in Cathay, and over a beer he'll tell you exactly where all this "anger" is coming from. Nobody came unscathed away from 2001.
As for leaving, most of us have been here too long, invested too many years of our lives, to start again somewhere else. We all carry hope for the day when mutual trust and respect can be reestablished, but sadly we carry that hope too long until it is too late for most of us. Don't forget that all of us one day aspired to join Cathay, we wanted to be here more than anything else. Now you tell me how a person, or an entire pilot body, goes from that to this?
Your comment "so sad a handful of parasites can ruin such a great site," shows that you either have no experience of the flight line here or you're seen as untrustworthy by the majority of your collegues who naturally don't confide in you.
@whackthemole. Thanks for the info I really appreciate it when there is an informative conversation, unlike some I have encountered, especially today. I'm kinda grasping on the fuss and I have no experience with the flight line in here. I think this site ought to be an informative aviation forum, believe me any airline out there has similar problems but I still believe there is a civil way to discuss these issues. Well, the best way is to ignore "the few" and take the best advice offered by some of you. Thanks again!
* Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: HONG KONG Posts: 23 You will never afford a descent place to live for your whole career. Your family will breathe the worst polluted air on the planet Your S/O hours dont count You will experience a constant reduction in salary and conditions over your whole career You will always be bumped off trying to get home with staff travel You have no pension
I am a current CX pilot on the new terms. I will tell you that all of the above is absolutely true. You are the cheapest option to the company and your package and subsequent lifestyle reflects it. If you are 21 then it's not a bad little gig for a few years before moving on but if you are a bit older (maybe 30+) then quite frankly it's a complete insult. Try supporting a family on just your CX package (not including savings etc)... It it IMPOSSIBLE and I fail to see how any moderately paying job in your home country wouldn't give you a MUCH higher standard of living.
This new package is largely indicative of why guys come on here and moan; Because the company is slowly trying to reduce everybody's terms to the lowest common denominator and has been since 1993; i.e local terms. And if/when that ever happens they will come back looking for more still. The management culture is to try to take everything they can from you to increase profits; medical benefits, staff travel, housing, roster stability, etc etc. THIS is why guys are bitter. Because everything you have is constantly being eroded. Personally, I think if you do decide to come here you need to make it work for you, in a similar way how guys can use Q-Link/Ryanair/Generic US Regional etc. But be under no illusions, it is NOT a career airline for new guys.
I hope that helps you understand the attitude of some guys on here claiming to be CX pilots.
@AndontcallmeShirley Thanks for the info. I understand your point and I take it for consideration. Will you please tell me what would be a fair and decent pay and allowances that will allow a decent 'western' lifestyle in HK?
A question directed at anyone with operative experience as an SO with CX:
When you were offered the job as an SO with CX, if you had known back then what you know today about what the job is like, would you still have taken the job?
In other words, do you regret choosing a career path starting out as an SO with CX, or are you ultimately content with your decision to join CX after all?
Reading the other posts on this thread, I perceive quite a bit of frustration among who I assume to be current CX pilots, and I am curious to know whether the built-up frustration over your current work situation and career so far with CX is sufficient to make you wish you had chosen a different path for your flying career or not.
I am asking this question as I am currently in the very position to make the desision for myself on whether or not to join CX as an SO cadet.
If you are coming here at age 21 and you get a free commercial licence out of it - fine. Take it. It's better than paying for it yourself.
If you have any sort of decent experience and you are taking the so called advanced entry some or other - know all youre getting is an advanced shafting. An Aircon repair man in HKG will make more money than you. My kids swimming instructor makes more money than you. An enterprising handyman - friend of mine- from uk - makes more money than you unclogging pipes and installing washing machines!! I am not saying this to be sarcastic. I am saying this to give you some idea where you will fit into hkg society.
You will earn less than many people who have no professional qualification or skill. And your (lack of) lifestyle will reflect that
But there is only ONE reason for that. They have been able to make up for the constantly deteriorating payscale and lack of pension by using their housing allowances to buy property. The $$ many have made this way also compensates for the extremely long times to captain upgrade FO's are now facing.
You or anyone joining now will never be able to do that. CX is quite a pleasant working environment. It's not about whether we like flying here or not. Most do. It's purely about the sacrifices you will have to make financially and In Lifestyle.
This has been said so many times. HKG as an overcrowded polluted place is ONLY worth it if you get rewarded for coming here.