Polish LOT 767 wheels up landing
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Too long since I flew this beast; so forgive me if I've forgotten much. I can't remember the reserve electric motor to release the uplocks. If this didn't work it suggests a multiple failure, but on the same system. It does not sound a good design if the back up of any system has failed and when you need it you find it is not working. Is there no warning of this on the lower screen? Secondly, it seems too complicated to have an electrical back up system. The good old basic cable on the B737 seems perhaps more fail-safe, although someone will have a story to refute that: plus it would be a longer cable.
I do remember the story of a BA B757 on base training duty who could not get the gear down by any means. The solution devised (lucky they had the fuel while the tech gurus devised the solution) was to depressurise the hydraulic system which kept the gear up. Then the back up system could be used and once released aerodynamics + gravity did the rest. Here both primary and back up system failed. I appreciate the back up system is only to release the uplocks. A bad hair day. back to the drawing board Boeing. I'll be interested on the FAA's response.
After this I would expect a detailed update of the FCTM as to how perform this manoeuvre. Sadly, not every airline carries this on board. Strange that the instruction manual is not kept beside the equipment it is relevant to. Where do you keep your car manual? Next will be a glover box in front of F/O.
I do remember the story of a BA B757 on base training duty who could not get the gear down by any means. The solution devised (lucky they had the fuel while the tech gurus devised the solution) was to depressurise the hydraulic system which kept the gear up. Then the back up system could be used and once released aerodynamics + gravity did the rest. Here both primary and back up system failed. I appreciate the back up system is only to release the uplocks. A bad hair day. back to the drawing board Boeing. I'll be interested on the FAA's response.
After this I would expect a detailed update of the FCTM as to how perform this manoeuvre. Sadly, not every airline carries this on board. Strange that the instruction manual is not kept beside the equipment it is relevant to. Where do you keep your car manual? Next will be a glover box in front of F/O.
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Bad day at the office
Great crew
Superb result. Respect is due.
Perhaps the bean counters can remind the travelling public how much a professional crew are really worth on the accounts sheets?
SAFETY COSTS MONEY.
Great crew
Superb result. Respect is due.
Perhaps the bean counters can remind the travelling public how much a professional crew are really worth on the accounts sheets?
SAFETY COSTS MONEY.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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By The Book
Capt Wrona taking a leaf out of Sully's book there. First class arrival. Re foaming of runways, I know from experience that Geneva will do it. There's always going to be the Occam's Razor debate about the virtues of foaming a runway and the arguments against. A feeling of 'here we go..'
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Glider
Hmm, USAir into the Hudson - Sully is glider pilot, here - glider pilot. Do I see a pattern (ok, n=2 is not a pattern, I know). Would it be a good idea to have the guys start with glider training before going to powered planes. Maybe 1 year or so (maybe 6 mo) longer training but saved lives?
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Re foaming of runways, I know from experience that Geneva will do it
As for the landing, beautifully done.
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Photos
More photos here, including what appears to be a clean runway (with the exception of the fire foam).
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net
Some more good ones here JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos-Registration Search: SP-LPC
Actually, this one at the beginning of the runway looks like there might have been foam and it ran off it.
Photo Search Results | Airliners.net
Some more good ones here JetPhotos.Net Aviation Photos-Registration Search: SP-LPC
Actually, this one at the beginning of the runway looks like there might have been foam and it ran off it.
Last edited by wto605; 1st Nov 2011 at 17:05. Reason: more photos
Join Date: Jan 2008
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On the 'Yahoo' website, the headline for this story is... "Broken landing gear forces plane down"
Don't you love 'journalists'.
And don't you love the crew who did such a great job here.
Don't you love 'journalists'.
And don't you love the crew who did such a great job here.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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All Gear Up
Rat 5
You remember well. In fact story went that Gear Lever actually came off in hand during UP selection, so all gear pressurised up and solution as you posted. There was a procedure in the QRH for that for many years afterwards.
I was going to venture something along the same lines for this LOT incident but you beat me to it in a way. However I think it is possible that this incident will turn out to be gear still pressurised up as that would be the only common link. Perhaps the selector valve stuck/trapped in UP position? Cable snapped after UP selection? This would preclude Gravity procedure.
Just a couple of thoughts.
I do remember the story of a BA B757 on base training duty who could not get the gear down by any means. The solution devised (lucky they had the fuel while the tech gurus devised the solution) was to depressurise the hydraulic system which kept the gear up. Then the back up system could be used and once released aerodynamics + gravity did the rest.
I was going to venture something along the same lines for this LOT incident but you beat me to it in a way. However I think it is possible that this incident will turn out to be gear still pressurised up as that would be the only common link. Perhaps the selector valve stuck/trapped in UP position? Cable snapped after UP selection? This would preclude Gravity procedure.
Just a couple of thoughts.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Incredible skills
Absolutely schoolbook landing and evacuation. I am astonished.
I knew the Polish are very hard working and perfectionist in anything they do but this really surprised me. No luck here, pure professionalism.
A lesson for all, especially the greedy Managers at the top of airlines.
I knew the Polish are very hard working and perfectionist in anything they do but this really surprised me. No luck here, pure professionalism.
A lesson for all, especially the greedy Managers at the top of airlines.
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Glider
Hmm, USAir into the Hudson - Sully is glider pilot, here - glider pilot. Do I see a pattern (ok, n=2 is not a pattern, I know). Would it be a good idea to have the guys start with glider training before going to powered planes. Maybe 1 year or so (maybe 6 mo) longer training but saved lives?
Hmm, USAir into the Hudson - Sully is glider pilot, here - glider pilot. Do I see a pattern (ok, n=2 is not a pattern, I know). Would it be a good idea to have the guys start with glider training before going to powered planes. Maybe 1 year or so (maybe 6 mo) longer training but saved lives?
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Wrona means crow in Polish.
Over the Polish internet a new saying is circulating:
"Lataj jak orzeł, ląduj jak Wrona"
"Fly like an eagle, land like a Crow"
Soon another definition of a "crow hop" will be needed
in the aviation dictionaries.
Over the Polish internet a new saying is circulating:
"Lataj jak orzeł, ląduj jak Wrona"
"Fly like an eagle, land like a Crow"
Soon another definition of a "crow hop" will be needed
in the aviation dictionaries.
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LOT belly landing video
is here (downpage, with 30-sec ad I'm afraid)
Flight from Newark makes emergency landing in Poland (video) - CSMonitor.com
Flight from Newark makes emergency landing in Poland (video) - CSMonitor.com
[QUOTE]Absolutely schoolbook landing and evacuation. I am astonished.
I knew the Polish are very hard working and perfectionist in anything they do but this really surprised me. No luck here, pure professionalism.
A lesson for all, especially the greedy Managers at the top of airlines.
[/QUOTE
Have always been very impressed by the Poles - hard working and dedicated. Last company I flew with we went to lots of Polish destinations and everyone concerned were always very efficient, business like and professional.
My father was a flying instructor in the UK during WW2 and taught many Poles to fly - he always spoke very highly of their loyalty and dedication.
I knew the Polish are very hard working and perfectionist in anything they do but this really surprised me. No luck here, pure professionalism.
A lesson for all, especially the greedy Managers at the top of airlines.
[/QUOTE
Have always been very impressed by the Poles - hard working and dedicated. Last company I flew with we went to lots of Polish destinations and everyone concerned were always very efficient, business like and professional.
My father was a flying instructor in the UK during WW2 and taught many Poles to fly - he always spoke very highly of their loyalty and dedication.