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Rules about pilots leaving the flight deck?

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Rules about pilots leaving the flight deck?

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Old 6th Mar 2023, 15:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Did you speak to the crew after the flight or just go straight to the CAA? :-(
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 15:40
  #22 (permalink)  
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canyonblue737:: how do you do that in these days of locked doors?
An initial enquiry to Easyjet didn't produce an answer.

HFD
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 16:40
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Originally Posted by M.Mouse
Why? He would just need to grab a spare mask.



The procedure for a rapid descent is not exactly onerous, unpleasant maybe, but not onerous. The priority is to don the oxygen mask which deals with the imminent danger, after that the procedure is quite simple. Heck, the A350 can do it automatically!
I gave an example of two pilots sitting in front messing it up. You didn't seem to have read it. Everything everytime doesn't go as per the book. It's not simulator. Yes! A350 does it on it's own because it's designed not because Pilots like to stay away from cockpit. Anyway the industry is trying to find out if one crew can stay not even at the back but may be at home itself. Your comments will definitely help.

Last edited by vilas; 6th Mar 2023 at 16:58.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 18:51
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Doors aren’t locked after the flight. And the requirement for a cc member have nothing to do with germanwings type scenarios.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 19:11
  #25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Nantucket Sleighride
what if the recently recruited junior cabin crew, is in fact the bad actor?
What if what if what if...
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 20:00
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
What if what if what if...
this entire thread is what if what if what if.

The airlines will have made a risk assessment (one of hundreds if not thousands they’re required to do to be allowed to operate) and have decided what is best for their operation. Some deem it less of a risk to have 2 people in the flight deck at all times. Others have deemed it less of a risk to not require that.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 20:08
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My 2 cents worth as a 34 year Long Haul pilot…what would ANY non qualified person be able to do on a flight deck?
Certainly would be unable to transmit on a radio to let out a mayday, let alone tune to correct frequency….I spend hours flying around Deep South of the world CPDLC only. Tell me a Flight attendant could work out how to do that.
Fly the aeroplane? Again, where I am, no tower getting a pilot out of bed to tell you how to select LNAV, ALT HOLD, HDG SEL
Stop me or recover once I have done something bad to aeroplane?
And who was the GermanWings pilot..as one example? Previously he was…..a flight attendant.
Limit time off flight deck due being a professional adult pilot. Aircraft was designed for 2 crew ops. All other stuff is making rules for the optics, not practical nor adding to safety.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 22:00
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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My 2 cents

It looks very unprofessional for a pilot to be chatting to CC or drinking or eating in flight. If you care what your customer thinks you wouldnt do it

If you want to socialise why not open the FD door and stand by the exit to speak to disembarking passengers. Might improve image and get happy punters

The need to exercise is a red herring. Pilots do not not seem to have a raised thromboembolic risk - reason unclear.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 22:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radgirl
My 2 cents

It looks very unprofessional for a pilot to be chatting to CC or drinking or eating in flight. If you care what your customer thinks you wouldnt do it

If you want to socialise why not open the FD door and stand by the exit to speak to disembarking passengers. Might improve image and get happy punters

The need to exercise is a red herring. Pilots do not not seem to have a raised thromboembolic risk - reason unclear.
Ah yes, the passengers must surely wonder why I've popped out into the galley to make a cup of tea and have a snack. Eating and drinking infront of passengers is very unprofessional, got it. While 30 mins is a bit excessive I see no problem in popping out the flight deck for 5/10 mins... let alone eating/drinking..
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 23:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radgirl
My 2 cents

It looks very unprofessional for a pilot to be chatting to CC or drinking or eating in flight. If you care what your customer thinks you wouldnt do it

If you want to socialise why not open the FD door and stand by the exit to speak to disembarking passengers. Might improve image and get happy punters

The need to exercise is a red herring. Pilots do not not seem to have a raised thromboembolic risk - reason unclear.
They might not always be socialising, who knows what they talk about? I was the other day standing in the forward galley with the curtain drawn, the CC wanted me to review some docs on the iPad and asked for my view. I was drinking coffee at the same time, hope that all sits well with you.

On another note, can I ask what is the American policy these days when it comes to one leaving for the loo etc?
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 00:57
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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There is (was) one purpose of the observer (usually an FA) when a pilot steps out of the flight deck. This really applies to any airline.

In the event of an abnormality requiring the vacant pilot to return, their one and only job is to ensure the flight deck door opens.

That's It. An insurance policy against a locked door.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 06:29
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Originally Posted by Dct_Mopas
The risks of having a newly qualified/ inexperienced cabin crew alone in the flight deck with one pilot (potential security issue/ stood behind the pilot so distraction if talking/ etc) needs to be balanced with the risk of incapacitation. Each alternative procedure has a level of risk, in this instance most airlines risk analysis leans towards one pilot being the better option.
It seems you completely missed my point, which was to counter the comment made by 'RARA9':
Originally Posted by RARA9
It’s silly really ,...
1. It basically says they don’t trust you on your own
...
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 07:02
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radgirl
My 2 cents

It looks very unprofessional for a pilot to be chatting to CC or drinking or eating in flight. If you care what your customer thinks you wouldnt do it

.
Frankly - tough- sometimes there are no other options.

The sort of policy you seem to be seeking would make life kind of tough if you are operating augmented crew on an aircraft with no or very limited crew rest facilities so any required rest period has to taken in the cabin..
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 08:03
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Originally Posted by wiggy
Frankly - tough- sometimes there are no other options.

The sort of policy you seem to be seeking would make life kind of tough if you are operating augmented crew on an aircraft with no or very limited crew rest facilities so any required rest period has to taken in the cabin..
I take your point re augmented crew but we’re talking Easyjet here with 2 crew which is a slightly different kettle of fish.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 08:29
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radgirl
It looks very unprofessional for a pilot to be chatting to CC or drinking or eating in flight. If you care what your customer thinks you wouldnt do it

If you want to socialise why not open the FD door and stand by the exit to speak to disembarking passengers. Might improve image and get happy punters

The need to exercise is a red herring. Pilots do not not seem to have a raised thromboembolic risk - reason unclear.
There is nothing unprofessional about drinking a coffee in the galley. In any cooperation, face to face social interactions are the valuable time to have people aside in an more informal way, create interactions, who knows, even "dislodge" certain things that might have been created before due to "formal" interactions. It is a social requirement to create trust. Sometimes the "leader" needs to leave his office and step into the "zone" of others. "My door is open" phrases don't work for many people if there are problems, because they will stay in their "zone". Which is the exact reason why I distrust any person who prefers to stay up front, door closed, and calls it "professional". A first officer is "second-in-command". He has to be allowed to go out there and interact. It's eyes and ears of what might possibly "stir" in the back. If there is nothing, fine. If there is something, you are proactive.

No you don't need excercise, you need to get up and interact with people, the act is fysically AND mentally healthy. It still surprises me to see how the world of aviation still thinks they are a world on their own from a human perspective. For years aviation was "founded" on a military background where people should follow strict hierarchic procedures. The Asians still like it, we complain so much about it, yet we defend it in our little world ourselves? Not on my aircraft. I've only got one message: you ain't fighting a war on the flightdeck, we're not part of an army. That's not the reason why the concept of CRM was created.

Last edited by BraceBrace; 7th Mar 2023 at 08:48.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 08:48
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I saw a captain leave the flight deck go to the loo then chat to the crew in the forward galley.
as he was chatting 2 women with a baby used the loo to change a nappy. They seemed to have a changing table which blocked access to the flight deck door for about 15mins. The captain couldn’t return to the flight deck and just waited.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 08:56
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Where I work, we always have 2 people in the flight deck. If one pilot needs to use the toilet one cabin attendant is required to be present in the flight deck but they are not allowed to seat anywhere but on the jumpseat and they are not allowed to touch any controls.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 09:29
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sawdust
I see no problem in popping out the flight deck for 5/10 mins...
Your regulator does however.
Who should we listen to? 🤔

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Old 7th Mar 2023, 09:34
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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If I had my way I’d block that forward toilet off and make it for crew use only. Curtain off the galley.

Don’t think Joe Public would be impressed though.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 10:42
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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While not taking 30 minutes, I do take some time to stretch my legs and have a chat with another human being, be it crew or passenger. It's a relief on a 8 hours two man flight to have some minutes of walking and seeing other people face to face instead of turned on a chair.

While it might increase the chance of something happening in case of my colleague becoming incapacitated, it in turn increases my overall level of alertness and happiness. I deem the net result as positive.
Regarding a suicidal pilot, I trust my colleagues and if indeed someone wants to do something, they really don't need to be alone to crash a plane. A cabincrew member wouldn't help a bit and close to the ground there are plenty of ways even with 3 pilots in the cockpit.

Keep a common sense about it and don't overreact or panic over the slightest thing.
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