Crews Above Flight Level.....
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Crews Above Flight Level.....
India:
As many as 151 pilots and crew members tested positive for alcohol during pre-flight medical examination in the first ten months this year and action has been taken against them, Civil Aviation Minister Ashok Gajapathi Raju said on Thursday.
A total of 38 pilots and 113 cabin crew have tested positive for alcohol during pre-flight medical examination for consumption of alcohol from January 1 to October 31 this year, he said in a written reply to the Lok Sabha.
Acting against such individuals, aviation regulator DGCA suspended privileges of license of pilots as well as privileges of authorisation of cabin crew.
"Further, the concerned airlines in compliance with DGCA's order, have grounded all these pilots and cabin crew," Raju said.
Aircraft Rules prohibits consumption of intoxicating and psychoactive substances by persons acting as, or carried in aircraft for the purpose of acting as pilot, commander, navigator, engineer, cabin crew or the other operating member of the crew.
In a separate written reply, Raju said 208 irregularities by pilots of various airlines have been reported to DGCA during 2015 and this year.
"A total of 15 irregularities by airlines have been reported to DGCA during last year and the current year 2016...
In all the cases, relevant enforcement action has been taken against the pilots and the airlines concerned," he noted.
To a query, the minister said that as per available records, no recent case has been reported to DGCA for taxiing of aircraft by engineer under the influence of alcohol.
Without providing specific details, he said that during a recent surveillance carried out by the regulator, it was found that one of the scheduled airlines was not strictly adhering to the requirements regarding breath analyser check.
As many as 151 pilots and crew members tested positive for alcohol during pre-flight medical examination in the first ten months this year and action has been taken against them, Civil Aviation Minister Ashok Gajapathi Raju said on Thursday.
A total of 38 pilots and 113 cabin crew have tested positive for alcohol during pre-flight medical examination for consumption of alcohol from January 1 to October 31 this year, he said in a written reply to the Lok Sabha.
Acting against such individuals, aviation regulator DGCA suspended privileges of license of pilots as well as privileges of authorisation of cabin crew.
"Further, the concerned airlines in compliance with DGCA's order, have grounded all these pilots and cabin crew," Raju said.
Aircraft Rules prohibits consumption of intoxicating and psychoactive substances by persons acting as, or carried in aircraft for the purpose of acting as pilot, commander, navigator, engineer, cabin crew or the other operating member of the crew.
In a separate written reply, Raju said 208 irregularities by pilots of various airlines have been reported to DGCA during 2015 and this year.
"A total of 15 irregularities by airlines have been reported to DGCA during last year and the current year 2016...
In all the cases, relevant enforcement action has been taken against the pilots and the airlines concerned," he noted.
To a query, the minister said that as per available records, no recent case has been reported to DGCA for taxiing of aircraft by engineer under the influence of alcohol.
Without providing specific details, he said that during a recent surveillance carried out by the regulator, it was found that one of the scheduled airlines was not strictly adhering to the requirements regarding breath analyser check.
Last edited by 80-87; 26th Nov 2016 at 14:40. Reason: State missing
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It does make you wonder "what if" the preflight checks were done in other countries, would the results be similar or ? I guess we may never know.
For those who are interested, here is a goto to the CAR.
http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D5f-f3.pdf
There was quite a discussion on this subject earlier on pprune.
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-443682.html
For those who are interested, here is a goto to the CAR.
http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D5f-f3.pdf
There was quite a discussion on this subject earlier on pprune.
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-443682.html
Longtimer's link gives an article with some real scientific rubbish.
Are they really looking for a zero blood alcohol reading!!!???
They seem to assume only mouthwashes and 'alcohol consumption' produce a positive blood alcohol reading. It may well be that 151 individuals have had their careers destroyed due to infections or other unavoidable and unknown causes
Another country to cross off my list....
Are they really looking for a zero blood alcohol reading!!!???
They seem to assume only mouthwashes and 'alcohol consumption' produce a positive blood alcohol reading. It may well be that 151 individuals have had their careers destroyed due to infections or other unavoidable and unknown causes
Another country to cross off my list....
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.001 it is.
Substances which have caused positive readings so far :
1.mouthwash
2.strong mint
3.perfume
4.paint, varnish etc
5.ayurvedic,homeopathic and allopathic medicines.
I don't drink, but I'm always nervous when I blow into the tube before every flight .
Recently, a friend at our airline forgot to do his post flight BA on return to India as mandated by the CAR when you operate from an international layover to India. He's currently on a 3 month suspension cooling his heels at home.i believe the DGCA stamps the license as well.
Recently, operated AUH IXE , diverted to BLR due fog at IXE . We had to leave PAX on the plane , take our bags , clear immigration and customs , take a cab to our ops medical room , do the post flight BA and then come back through the same mess to operate BLR IXE. That was a waste of 1.5hrs to do the postflight BA. Too tragic to laugh , anywho we love our red tape that's for sure...
Masa lama and keep blowing negative . Let's make it a compulsory ICAO rule , that should be fun right ?
1.mouthwash
2.strong mint
3.perfume
4.paint, varnish etc
5.ayurvedic,homeopathic and allopathic medicines.
I don't drink, but I'm always nervous when I blow into the tube before every flight .
Recently, a friend at our airline forgot to do his post flight BA on return to India as mandated by the CAR when you operate from an international layover to India. He's currently on a 3 month suspension cooling his heels at home.i believe the DGCA stamps the license as well.
Recently, operated AUH IXE , diverted to BLR due fog at IXE . We had to leave PAX on the plane , take our bags , clear immigration and customs , take a cab to our ops medical room , do the post flight BA and then come back through the same mess to operate BLR IXE. That was a waste of 1.5hrs to do the postflight BA. Too tragic to laugh , anywho we love our red tape that's for sure...
Masa lama and keep blowing negative . Let's make it a compulsory ICAO rule , that should be fun right ?
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Are they really looking for a zero blood alcohol reading!!!???
They seem to assume only mouthwashes and 'alcohol consumption' produce a positive blood alcohol reading. It may well be that 151 individuals have had their careers destroyed due to infections or other unavoidable and unknown causes
Another country to cross off my list....
They seem to assume only mouthwashes and 'alcohol consumption' produce a positive blood alcohol reading. It may well be that 151 individuals have had their careers destroyed due to infections or other unavoidable and unknown causes
Another country to cross off my list....
The 0.00% requirement isn't unusual in itself -- many safety-related industries have zero tolerance policies. Heck you can't drive a truck in many countries (or even a taxi/limo) with BAC over 0.00%.
Pick your poison...
In India the level is 0.00% but for first offense you get a slap on the wrist -- at most an administrative 3-month suspension unless there are aggravating circumstances.
In other countries, the level might be 0.02% or 0.04% but you are charged with a criminal offense right off the bat. You'd typically have to spend thousands of $$$ on attorney/legal fees, enter and complete a court-approved alcohol program, and agree to supervised monitoring for several years. Plus did I mention a criminal record?
What's unusual about India is I believe they require tests before each flight?
Peekay4 it may be a difficult bit of maths but a zero alcohol reading IS 0.00%
No you dont necessarily know if you have an underlying medical condition, and proving it is hard if you do. And as others have said there are other contaminants. They often produce low readings which is why any sane country does not have 0.00%.
Zero tolerance is not the same as zero blood alcohol. It means if you are over a level which cant be explained by these alternate methods you clearly have been knocking back the alcohol and there is justification for being charged. I dont think many of us have sympathy for those justifiably getting a criminal record but in India 151 innocents may have lost their job.
No you dont necessarily know if you have an underlying medical condition, and proving it is hard if you do. And as others have said there are other contaminants. They often produce low readings which is why any sane country does not have 0.00%.
Zero tolerance is not the same as zero blood alcohol. It means if you are over a level which cant be explained by these alternate methods you clearly have been knocking back the alcohol and there is justification for being charged. I dont think many of us have sympathy for those justifiably getting a criminal record but in India 151 innocents may have lost their job.
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Peekay4 it may be a difficult bit of maths but a zero alcohol reading IS 0.00%
Nowhere in the Indian procedure document linked above requires a reading of 0.00% other than for air-blank calibration.
They often produce low readings
"Breathalyzers" (to use the term loosely) are portable units often used by law enforcement for preliminary screening tests. They are not very accurate, and subject to many errors cited here, such as detecting alcohol in the mouth (from mouthwash, cosmetics, etc.) These testers can also produce false-positives due to underlying medical conditions like diabetes. Diabetics produce acetone which can show up as high as 0.06% BAC on a preliminary tester. So it doesn't matter if the tolerance is 0.00% or 0.04% anyway.
But breath analysis machines are different. These are calibrated, lab-grade gas spectrometers tuned to detect ethanol. They also have specialized algorithms (called "slope detectors") to reject mouth alcohol and other causes of false-positives (MTBE additives, paint thinners, etc.). They are operated by specialized technicians following strict legal procedures.
Since these machines are detecting ethanol specifically, they are extremely accurate. False positives are rare. Due to their accuracy these machines are typically acceptable in a court of law in lieu of a blood test.
A disease which could produce ethanol in detectable levels is also extremely rare (known as auto-brewery syndrome). Most of us may produce a trace amount of ethanol in our guts, yet in the entire history of humankind there are less than 100 recorded cases of auto-brewery syndrome. If you are unlucky enough to suffer from this disease, you may lose your flight medical anyway because you are essentially drunk all the time.
You are talking about the machines, we are talking about the silly rules. By 'they' I was referring to medical conditions not the machine. And I presume you are referring to gut fermentation syndrome which I agree is rare (never seen it myself!) but various infections and other illnesses can produce false positives and there are numerous cases where this has been used in court, but they rarely give a reading high enough to fail a drink drive test.
Of course, I dont know what machines are being used in India, nor whether they are properly calibrated, but that isnt really the issue. It is hard to believe 151 pilots and crew have been attempting to drink fly in ten months. In some cases it may be they, like me, dont have a clue how long it takes to get to zero after drinking, but at the end of the day some may be even more innocent.
Of course, I dont know what machines are being used in India, nor whether they are properly calibrated, but that isnt really the issue. It is hard to believe 151 pilots and crew have been attempting to drink fly in ten months. In some cases it may be they, like me, dont have a clue how long it takes to get to zero after drinking, but at the end of the day some may be even more innocent.
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Looks like the alcohol problem has gone to the top at Air India:
The Times Group
From the Hindustan Times:
Senior Air India pilot banned from flying after skipping alcohol test | mumbai news | Hindustan Times
Feb 10 2017 : The Times of India (Delhi)
AI grounds top pilot for `skipping' booze tests
New Delhi:
TIMES NEWS NETWORK
He Was In Charge Of 1,500 Pilots
Air India's executive director (operations), who is in charge of the airline's 1,500-odd pilots, has been grounded for allegedly skipping the mandatory preflight breath analyser (BA) test on some flights this January. This test is conducted to ensure that only perfectly sober pilots fly planes.
The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) directed AI on Wednesday night to immediately ground captain Arvind Kathpalia, also one of AI's seniormost pilots.
“AI ED (operations) has been de-rostered based on a preliminary (probe) report of the airline. They have been asked to expedite submission of final report along with evidence to the DGCA. The grounding is pending inquiry. Final action will be taken after getting the final probe report from AI,“ a senior DGCA official said. Based on the DGCA order, AI issued instructions to ground the pilot. The airline did not give a comment till the time of filing this story.
A pilot is grounded for three months, three years and forever after failing pre-flight BA test for the first, second and third time, respectively. Those failing the BA tests in postflight checks get a year added to these groundings. Any pilot who skips the pre-flight BA test is presumed to have flunked it, or tested positive for alcohol content. If the final probe report finds the ED (operations) guilty of skipping the test multiple times, he could be grounded for a long time. Kathpalia has been senior flight operations inspector in DGCA and operates VVIP flights.
AI had last Monday set up a panel to examine the complaint against Kathpalia that he had allegedly evaded the mandatory BA tests more than once in January. The complaint was made by the Indian Commercial Pilots' Association ( union of erstwhile Indian Airlines' pilots).
AI grounds top pilot for `skipping' booze tests
New Delhi:
TIMES NEWS NETWORK
He Was In Charge Of 1,500 Pilots
Air India's executive director (operations), who is in charge of the airline's 1,500-odd pilots, has been grounded for allegedly skipping the mandatory preflight breath analyser (BA) test on some flights this January. This test is conducted to ensure that only perfectly sober pilots fly planes.
The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) directed AI on Wednesday night to immediately ground captain Arvind Kathpalia, also one of AI's seniormost pilots.
“AI ED (operations) has been de-rostered based on a preliminary (probe) report of the airline. They have been asked to expedite submission of final report along with evidence to the DGCA. The grounding is pending inquiry. Final action will be taken after getting the final probe report from AI,“ a senior DGCA official said. Based on the DGCA order, AI issued instructions to ground the pilot. The airline did not give a comment till the time of filing this story.
A pilot is grounded for three months, three years and forever after failing pre-flight BA test for the first, second and third time, respectively. Those failing the BA tests in postflight checks get a year added to these groundings. Any pilot who skips the pre-flight BA test is presumed to have flunked it, or tested positive for alcohol content. If the final probe report finds the ED (operations) guilty of skipping the test multiple times, he could be grounded for a long time. Kathpalia has been senior flight operations inspector in DGCA and operates VVIP flights.
AI had last Monday set up a panel to examine the complaint against Kathpalia that he had allegedly evaded the mandatory BA tests more than once in January. The complaint was made by the Indian Commercial Pilots' Association ( union of erstwhile Indian Airlines' pilots).
From the Hindustan Times:
Last year, the HT had reported that at least one pilot tested positive every two days between January and June in 2016. The DGCA data revealed that such safety lapses almost tripled from 69 cases in 2011 to 186 in 2015.
Since these machines are detecting ethanol specifically, they are extremely accurate. False positives are rare. Due to their accuracy these machines are typically acceptable in a court of law in lieu of a blood test.
A disease which could produce ethanol in detectable levels is also extremely rare (known as auto-brewery syndrome). Most of us may produce a trace amount of ethanol in our guts, yet in the entire history of humankind there are less than 100 recorded cases of auto-brewery syndrome. If you are unlucky enough to suffer from this disease, you may lose your flight medical anyway because you are essentially drunk all the time.
A disease which could produce ethanol in detectable levels is also extremely rare (known as auto-brewery syndrome). Most of us may produce a trace amount of ethanol in our guts, yet in the entire history of humankind there are less than 100 recorded cases of auto-brewery syndrome. If you are unlucky enough to suffer from this disease, you may lose your flight medical anyway because you are essentially drunk all the time.
I asked him his view on false readings and screening in general. His reply just now:
"Drug and alcohol testing programs should be conducted on a regular basis across all of the aviation industry. There can be no doubt to the adverse effects on say a pilots performance when impaired by alcohol, drugs or fatigue. Though there is still frequent disagreement over who is classified safety-sensitive personnel, or whether testing should be a mandatory part of a company's safety mangement system - especially given the costs involved - the industry is continuing to make positive strides.
From my experience, false-positive test results are extremely rare - I've only seen one - given the sensitivity and nature of the equipment employed today. If you are working in a safety-sensitive position and your performance is impaired, the responsibility and consequences from any possible adverse effects is on you. Period."
Harsh, but I understand where he's coming from.
As an aside, he's mentioned on numerous occasions that he's becoming increasingly alarmed by the number of incidents where fatigue is a causal factor.
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As an aside, he's mentioned on numerous occasions that he's becoming increasingly alarmed by the number of incidents where fatigue is a causal factor.
I would bet a months salary that for every pilot blowing positive on alcohol there would be 100 pilots who's performance is degraded to a greater extent by fatigue.......shame you can't measure it as easily.
17 hours of wakefulness degrades performance to the same degree as a blood alcohol level of .05%.
What does months/ years of shift work do when combined with a duty that starts at 6pm and finishes at 6am with only two crew on board?
They're barking up the wrong safety tree with alcohol.
17 hours of wakefulness degrades performance to the same degree as a blood alcohol level of .05%.
What does months/ years of shift work do when combined with a duty that starts at 6pm and finishes at 6am with only two crew on board?
They're barking up the wrong safety tree with alcohol.
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"Drug and alcohol testing programs should be conducted on a regular basis across all of the aviation industry. There can be no doubt to the adverse effects on say a pilots performance when impaired by alcohol, drugs or fatigue.
Fatigue! what a joke!
Fatigue: It accumulates over time.
Yet the NTSB will only consider the previous 72 hours, not the previous 5 days that I indicated that caused the event.
Government covering their ass and policies to the detriment of safety
Fatigue! what a joke!
Fatigue: It accumulates over time.
Yet the NTSB will only consider the previous 72 hours, not the previous 5 days that I indicated that caused the event.
Government covering their ass and policies to the detriment of safety
Managements the world over are thanking their lucky stars there isn't a simple and reliable fatigue test, especially post mortem.
"One research study underway is measuring changes in the composition of saliva samples that accompany changes in fatigue level and how this correlates with human performance. The objective isn't to come up with a test/score which would say preclude pilots from flying due to "fatigue levels", rather it's part of a broader study to understand the effects of fatigue and its deleterious accumulation over time.
These particular salivary biomarkers are proving very good at predicting sleep deprivation and modelling the relationship between heart rate variability and levels of fatigue.
Of particular note, there's a well-established correlation between decreased cognitive performance during acute progressive fatigue arising from different concurrent stressors -- the very type of situation a pilot may encounter during an incident and be significantly and catastrophically impaired as a result.
I would argue that fatigue is now one of the greatest threats to modern aviation safety"
Hmm.
Last edited by unworry; 12th Feb 2017 at 06:57. Reason: dropped a word
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unworry, interesting follow up info, thank you. I've never heard of this (can't say I've looked hard). I would be really very interested to see just how hard this is being pursued by the various regulators & operators.
I've seen just how much foot dragging & delays there has been implementing the FRMS under CASA, and as I best I can determine there is no proposal for any clinical testing in the new fatigue management system. Sounds like there should be.
I've seen just how much foot dragging & delays there has been implementing the FRMS under CASA, and as I best I can determine there is no proposal for any clinical testing in the new fatigue management system. Sounds like there should be.
From a previous conversation on the topic (Im sure to muck this up, but anyhoo), he said the best way to conceptualize fatigue is to see it as the collective state of physiological, perceptual and performance indices.
And what really got my thinking was how he emphasized "Higher Control" functions frequently breakdown when one is in a stressful setting and fatigued, and how it especially leads to impairment to "assess and respond to Perceived Demands"
I believe this is the area he feels is most relevant to our profession.
Edit to add: Whenever we discuss the actions of a flight crew and say "what were they thinking?", I too wonder how often it all comes down to fatigue, plain and simple.
And what really got my thinking was how he emphasized "Higher Control" functions frequently breakdown when one is in a stressful setting and fatigued, and how it especially leads to impairment to "assess and respond to Perceived Demands"
I believe this is the area he feels is most relevant to our profession.
Edit to add: Whenever we discuss the actions of a flight crew and say "what were they thinking?", I too wonder how often it all comes down to fatigue, plain and simple.
