France borders
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France borders
In regard to reports of French borders being "closed". Closed does not mean there is no entry or exit.
Press release:
"Contrôles aux frontières : le Président de la République a décidé d’instaurer immédiatement des contrôles systématiques aux points d’entrée sur le territoire national.
Ces contrôles sont effectués aux points de passage routiers, ferroviaires, maritimes et aéroportuaires.
Les aéroports continuent de fonctionner.
Les liaisons aériennes et ferroviaires sont assurées."
The French were due to tighten border controls Saturday due to the upcoming G20.
No suggestion that airports will be closed, beyond the French PM saying in his initial 3 minute address that "traffic will be stopped and some places will be closed" (note that one TV network translated this as "travel could be banned". )
Paris public transport was halted.
Schools, museums, town halls and civic buildings in Paris will be closed Saturday. Outdoor events have been cancelled. U2 have cancelled their Saturday concert.
France 24 TV report that French police chief says he believes all the attackers are dead.
Unlike an airport, all the targets were soft.
Mickjoebill
Press release:
"Contrôles aux frontières : le Président de la République a décidé d’instaurer immédiatement des contrôles systématiques aux points d’entrée sur le territoire national.
Ces contrôles sont effectués aux points de passage routiers, ferroviaires, maritimes et aéroportuaires.
Les aéroports continuent de fonctionner.
Les liaisons aériennes et ferroviaires sont assurées."
The French were due to tighten border controls Saturday due to the upcoming G20.
No suggestion that airports will be closed, beyond the French PM saying in his initial 3 minute address that "traffic will be stopped and some places will be closed" (note that one TV network translated this as "travel could be banned". )
Paris public transport was halted.
Schools, museums, town halls and civic buildings in Paris will be closed Saturday. Outdoor events have been cancelled. U2 have cancelled their Saturday concert.
France 24 TV report that French police chief says he believes all the attackers are dead.
Unlike an airport, all the targets were soft.
Mickjoebill
Last edited by mickjoebill; 14th Nov 2015 at 03:18.
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Paris closed
Apparantly all outgoing borders are closed, except for trains and airlines
Incoming seems to be OK
ALL paris under curfew- and police have permission to make house arrests if deemed necessary.
Local paris metro closed but taxis are free
Incoming seems to be OK
ALL paris under curfew- and police have permission to make house arrests if deemed necessary.
Local paris metro closed but taxis are free
The nation has suffered an unexpected and tragic series of events in the night of Friday/Saturday 13/14 November.
At present many people are in shock, and the media are very present on the scene and making global comments from the safety of their homelands.
It would be reasonable to assume that border controls on Schengen countries around France will be reintroduced which means that all those crossing them will be required to present valid and acceptable identity documentation - National ID cards and passports for the most part - and there will be significantly longer waiting times to go through the borders as each vehicle's or foot passenger's documentation is inspected.
The country has been under the Vigipirate legal status for some time now, and the present incident will result in a more visible police presence, reinforced by the military (often commonly seen at my local airports). French police have always had the right to stop and question individuals, so it would be advisable to adhere to French law to be carrying personal ID when 'out and about'. A photo driving licence bearing your signature and address might be helpful as a minimum. Keep your personal ID documents safe though.
Please respect those who are grieving and who are shocked. Understand that inconvenience at border points is for your security and for those around you and be patient.
Do not change the way you live because of the actions of a minority. Be sensible, sensitive and use your common sense.
At present many people are in shock, and the media are very present on the scene and making global comments from the safety of their homelands.
It would be reasonable to assume that border controls on Schengen countries around France will be reintroduced which means that all those crossing them will be required to present valid and acceptable identity documentation - National ID cards and passports for the most part - and there will be significantly longer waiting times to go through the borders as each vehicle's or foot passenger's documentation is inspected.
The country has been under the Vigipirate legal status for some time now, and the present incident will result in a more visible police presence, reinforced by the military (often commonly seen at my local airports). French police have always had the right to stop and question individuals, so it would be advisable to adhere to French law to be carrying personal ID when 'out and about'. A photo driving licence bearing your signature and address might be helpful as a minimum. Keep your personal ID documents safe though.
Please respect those who are grieving and who are shocked. Understand that inconvenience at border points is for your security and for those around you and be patient.
Do not change the way you live because of the actions of a minority. Be sensible, sensitive and use your common sense.
"La carte d'identité n'est pas un document obligatoire."
+1, what Alsacienne said, but yes, as nyt has pointed out it is no longer a requirement in French law to carry ID...however I suspect it might be a good idea.
CONSO
Certainly not the case at our "local" border (with Spain) this morning, but extra controls in place. I'm not sure Paris is quite in the "lockdown" being described by some in the press but all public buildings/schools/metro largely closed, even EuroDisney is shut and large sporting events cancelled.
As has been said inbound border checks were already being ramped up, especially in the north east of France, due to the imminent start of COP21...IMHO a complete irrelevance given the more imminent threat demonstrated last night, but since some of the luminaries are already in town (including a former VP of the USA) I guess it will have to go ahead, if only to show a bit of "keep calm and carrying on..."
CONSO
Apparently all outgoing borders are closed,
As has been said inbound border checks were already being ramped up, especially in the north east of France, due to the imminent start of COP21...IMHO a complete irrelevance given the more imminent threat demonstrated last night, but since some of the luminaries are already in town (including a former VP of the USA) I guess it will have to go ahead, if only to show a bit of "keep calm and carrying on..."
Just to clarify what nyt was saying ... (From www.Service-Public.fr, the official French Government Administration website)
Justification d'identité
La personne soumise au contrôle a l'obligation de justifier de son identité. La carte d'identité n'est pas un document obligatoire.
The person who is stopped by the the authorities is obliged to prove his identity. An identification card is not an obligatory document .... which I would interpret as being not being obligatory (ie the sole document required) because it can be replaced by another document if the person does not have one (ie not being a French citizen) or is a non-French national (most likely a visitor to France, or has not got their paperwork in order!!!)
L'identité peut être justifiée par un autre titre (passeport ou permis de conduire), une autre pièce (document d'état civil indiquant la filiation, livret militaire, carte d'électeur ou de sécurité sociale), voire un témoignage. Par ailleurs, une personne étrangère doit établir la régularité de son séjour en France (passeport, visa, carte de séjour).
The person can identify themselves by presenting another document (such as a passport or a driving licence) (note that French driving licences have a photo, (often from way back when), a signature and an address) or another (official) document (a birth certificate, military log book, voter's card or social security card) or be vouched for by another person present.
In addition, a foreigner must prove him/herself to be legally in the country in respect of his visit (by presenting a passport, a valid visa or a resident's card).
Si la personne contrôlée ne peut pas justifier de son identité, ou si les documents produits paraissent insuffisants pour établir l'identité (document sans photo), une vérification d'identité peut être demandée.
If the person cannot prove his or her identity or if the documents produced are considered insufficient as a means of proving his or her identity, further (more detailed) proof of identity may be asked for.
The italics are mine to emphasize or interpret the French words to make them more comprehensible.
SO, if you are a non-French national, you should make sure you have a suitable proof of identity on your person when you are away from your accommodation, and nyt ... the Carte de Séjour is only provided nowadays if you really push for it as I had to when my previous card expired!!!
Justification d'identité
La personne soumise au contrôle a l'obligation de justifier de son identité. La carte d'identité n'est pas un document obligatoire.
The person who is stopped by the the authorities is obliged to prove his identity. An identification card is not an obligatory document .... which I would interpret as being not being obligatory (ie the sole document required) because it can be replaced by another document if the person does not have one (ie not being a French citizen) or is a non-French national (most likely a visitor to France, or has not got their paperwork in order!!!)
L'identité peut être justifiée par un autre titre (passeport ou permis de conduire), une autre pièce (document d'état civil indiquant la filiation, livret militaire, carte d'électeur ou de sécurité sociale), voire un témoignage. Par ailleurs, une personne étrangère doit établir la régularité de son séjour en France (passeport, visa, carte de séjour).
The person can identify themselves by presenting another document (such as a passport or a driving licence) (note that French driving licences have a photo, (often from way back when), a signature and an address) or another (official) document (a birth certificate, military log book, voter's card or social security card) or be vouched for by another person present.
In addition, a foreigner must prove him/herself to be legally in the country in respect of his visit (by presenting a passport, a valid visa or a resident's card).
Si la personne contrôlée ne peut pas justifier de son identité, ou si les documents produits paraissent insuffisants pour établir l'identité (document sans photo), une vérification d'identité peut être demandée.
If the person cannot prove his or her identity or if the documents produced are considered insufficient as a means of proving his or her identity, further (more detailed) proof of identity may be asked for.
The italics are mine to emphasize or interpret the French words to make them more comprehensible.
SO, if you are a non-French national, you should make sure you have a suitable proof of identity on your person when you are away from your accommodation, and nyt ... the Carte de Séjour is only provided nowadays if you really push for it as I had to when my previous card expired!!!
Last edited by Alsacienne; 14th Nov 2015 at 10:28. Reason: Grammar!!
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@Rex Banner
I hope not as the Schengen Agreement and the free movement of people and goods around the EU are basic to the whole principle.
If we give way and abandon what has been long fought for then the terrorists have won.
I hope not as the Schengen Agreement and the free movement of people and goods around the EU are basic to the whole principle.
If we give way and abandon what has been long fought for then the terrorists have won.
Availability of weapons in Europe
The situation is beyond ridiculous. In many parts of central and eastern Europe - Czech Republic for example - every small town has a shop selling firearms. You can even buy "deactivated" automatics of many kinds as well as semi-automatic assault rifles which are trivially easy to convert to full automatic by anyone with access to a metalworking facility and the basic skills. Of course a licence is required to buy these weapons however it is easy to obtain and many people have arsenals of firearms. There are also vast numbers of legacy Soviet era military pieces in private unlicensed hands. Combine this reality with minimal or non-existent border controls and the absurdity of pretending that the sector of the population who represent the highest threat cannot be identified and these events come as no surprise. We're going to have to get used to such atrocities. I have yet to see a single "moderate muslim" representative on any of the TV news networks offer their condolences... There's a great deal more that can be said but this probably isn't the place to say it.
Edit @12.00 gmt:
Gatwick North terminal now being closed on account of a "suspicious item".
Edit @12.00 gmt:
Gatwick North terminal now being closed on account of a "suspicious item".
Last edited by skridlov; 14th Nov 2015 at 11:08. Reason: additional news item
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Schengen and free movement without ID is dead now. But this does not mean the terrorists have won, having to show Passport or ID at the border entry or exit is not to big price to pay, to avoid such blood-sheds in the past.
The damage might already have been done, but the way it works now, is just not sustainable for security.
Goodbye Schengen
The damage might already have been done, but the way it works now, is just not sustainable for security.
Goodbye Schengen
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having to show Passport or ID at the border entry or exit is not to big price to pay, to avoid such blood-sheds in the past.
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All countries within the Schengen agreement have the ability to remove themselves if needs be.
It is a very sad day indeed for our cousins in France and a sad day for everyone.
It is a very sad day indeed for our cousins in France and a sad day for everyone.
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@His dudeness
Indeed and you are quite correct.
Terrorists are not so stupid as not to have perfectly legitimate documents. Or, even be citizens of the country and people they attack.
Indeed and you are quite correct.
Terrorists are not so stupid as not to have perfectly legitimate documents. Or, even be citizens of the country and people they attack.
Profiling
"Terrorists are not so stupid as not to have perfectly legitimate documents. Or, even be citizens of the country and people they attack."
Neither of those factors make it impossible to dramatically narrow down the range of individuals who represent the threat demographic.
Neither of those factors make it impossible to dramatically narrow down the range of individuals who represent the threat demographic.
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Just a quick comment: I live right near the border on the german side. Not too far from Schengen, actually. We just completed our weekly shopping trip to a nearby french supermarket. We crossed the border at two different locations by car. All was completely normal. No unusual activities visible. Just like you would go from Ohio to Indiana and back.
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Which is why what we do should be intelligence led and long term.
Knee jerk reactions which reduce our own freedoms, long fought for freedoms, may look good on paper (or to the papers) but will have little effect.
Knee jerk reactions which reduce our own freedoms, long fought for freedoms, may look good on paper (or to the papers) but will have little effect.
