Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Leightman 957:
Less likely=still possible, in my book. An MEC fire may have started as the last generator came on line or there may have been non normal BTB or GB operation after takeoff, we may never know.
We are considering all possibilities here. An MEC fire could progress undetected for some time as any smoke, until excessive, would be vented overboard. The EQUIP COOLING OVBD is not significant, according to the NNC. If there were multiple wiring failures just after the handover, almost any systems would be vulnerable to failure. My interpretation is:
MEC fire damage
Loss of comms/acars
Dual FMC failure
Mulitiple system fail indications
Diversion initiated using Alternate Nav.
Flightdeck smoke-crew on 100% Oxygen
Possible slow depressurisation MEC structure fail- EICAS cabin altitude warning not observed, hidden amongst many others
Oxygen depletion or disruption in MEC
Unconciousness,
MEC fire out due FL350 ambient pressure.
Aircraft follows Alt Nav manually entered lat/long waypoints
Final waypoint is erroneously in S hemisphere. (Penang as S5 or S50?)
Aircraft flies until fuel depletion.
Less likely=still possible, in my book. An MEC fire may have started as the last generator came on line or there may have been non normal BTB or GB operation after takeoff, we may never know.
We are considering all possibilities here. An MEC fire could progress undetected for some time as any smoke, until excessive, would be vented overboard. The EQUIP COOLING OVBD is not significant, according to the NNC. If there were multiple wiring failures just after the handover, almost any systems would be vulnerable to failure. My interpretation is:
MEC fire damage
Loss of comms/acars
Dual FMC failure
Mulitiple system fail indications
Diversion initiated using Alternate Nav.
Flightdeck smoke-crew on 100% Oxygen
Possible slow depressurisation MEC structure fail- EICAS cabin altitude warning not observed, hidden amongst many others
Oxygen depletion or disruption in MEC
Unconciousness,
MEC fire out due FL350 ambient pressure.
Aircraft follows Alt Nav manually entered lat/long waypoints
Final waypoint is erroneously in S hemisphere. (Penang as S5 or S50?)
Aircraft flies until fuel depletion.
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MEC fire damage
That is for me a human action (s) not the result of a fire in MEC
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The co-ordinates of the large 24m and small 5m objects identified by satellite appear to be on the same great circle as both Kuala Lumpur and Beijing.
Either he was searching for the deepest ocean depths he could reach without detection or he was making a statement by flying the aircraft to (and then past) the location on the same great circle south west from KL as Beijing is north east.
Either he was searching for the deepest ocean depths he could reach without detection or he was making a statement by flying the aircraft to (and then past) the location on the same great circle south west from KL as Beijing is north east.
Emergency Procedures
Emergency Procedures.
Just checking our Emergency Descent Checklist A340. No where does it state to activate the ELT.
The ELT switch it just above the Capts Head, maybe different on other aircraft and type. There is no switch in the cabin.
The switch can be reset due to accidental use, happened to me in JFK a few months back. You have to hold the switch to reset for a couple of seconds.
If I was over some remote place then this should be one of the first things to activate. I am sure if AF had done so then the aircraft would have been found much sooner.
There should also be a switch in the cabin for the cabin crew to activate. There should be a procedure in place that anytime the O2 masks are deployed then the switch should be turned on.
Also there should be some logics in the system so that whichever switch activates the system then only that switch can reset it.
If this had happened on MH370 then it should have been located within a few minutes and then tracked.
I do not suppose it works under water so maybe a more robust ELT should be fitted to all aircraft.
Just checking our Emergency Descent Checklist A340. No where does it state to activate the ELT.
The ELT switch it just above the Capts Head, maybe different on other aircraft and type. There is no switch in the cabin.
The switch can be reset due to accidental use, happened to me in JFK a few months back. You have to hold the switch to reset for a couple of seconds.
If I was over some remote place then this should be one of the first things to activate. I am sure if AF had done so then the aircraft would have been found much sooner.
There should also be a switch in the cabin for the cabin crew to activate. There should be a procedure in place that anytime the O2 masks are deployed then the switch should be turned on.
Also there should be some logics in the system so that whichever switch activates the system then only that switch can reset it.
If this had happened on MH370 then it should have been located within a few minutes and then tracked.
I do not suppose it works under water so maybe a more robust ELT should be fitted to all aircraft.
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One thing concerning the track, from my understanding which may well be at fault, is that depending on the speed the track can vary by a huge margin so at best the search area is the a most likely. It is even possible that it was flown to say Christmas Island where the casino is or to any patch of ocean in between that and the current search area from the evidence we know about. The ping data just about supports this if the speed is adjusted.
That suggests to me that there is other information that has not been released but rather "suggested" by other sources to the SAR teams that solidifies the best guess to a highly / only probable search area. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the case for all concerned.
That suggests to me that there is other information that has not been released but rather "suggested" by other sources to the SAR teams that solidifies the best guess to a highly / only probable search area. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the case for all concerned.
Jcjeant:
Of course they would be a crew action, as a result of an MEC fire. The new waypoints were programmed into a (possibly alternate nav) diversion. This is a tricky thing to do as the waypoints have to be entered by lat/long. Easy to make an entry error under stress and unfamiliarity with the procedure. Difficult to maintain positional awareness.
Of course they would be a crew action, as a result of an MEC fire. The new waypoints were programmed into a (possibly alternate nav) diversion. This is a tricky thing to do as the waypoints have to be entered by lat/long. Easy to make an entry error under stress and unfamiliarity with the procedure. Difficult to maintain positional awareness.
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Satellite Imagery
Are they able to determine the position of the possible debris photographed by the various satellites over several days now?
If so, can they not link them up to determine the general direction of movement of the possible debris and then predict more or less where it might be in real search time?
If so, can they not link them up to determine the general direction of movement of the possible debris and then predict more or less where it might be in real search time?
That was me who asked about the sea states Albatross. Thanks for the links.
Good replies overall to my inquiry as it gives many of us at least a context as to what the crews on scene are working through. Not only those on scene, but those who are scurrying full apace to get to the coal face.
Good replies overall to my inquiry as it gives many of us at least a context as to what the crews on scene are working through. Not only those on scene, but those who are scurrying full apace to get to the coal face.
Last edited by Uncle Fred; 28th Mar 2014 at 00:51.
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@CowgirlInAlaska
that map number you quoted has me wondering whether it is the same area referred to as other official "debris sightings" - I can't believe all of the "bits" in it are wave-tops, it looks like what I would expect a debris field to look like. No doubt I'm wrong though 
777fly:
We wouldn't enter waypoints for know places using manually entered lat/long (difficult to remember), we would enter their codes. eg for Penang we would enter 'wmkp' or 'vpg'. Once the aircraft reached that waypoint if no other waypoints were entered into the FMC, the aircraft would continue on the current inbound heading. ie approx SW towards Madagascar.
Tankengine:
Once again if a heading was selected for Penang / Langkawi the aircraft would continue SW/W towards Africa.
The available tracking data for MH370 does not support either scenario.
Aircraft follows Alt Nav manually entered lat/long waypoints
Tankengine:
Or: the aircraft was turned in heading select and simply followed that heading till the end
The available tracking data for MH370 does not support either scenario.
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Todays Search Activity
All times Australian Eastern Daylight Time (UTC+11)
- Today’s search and recovery operation in the Australian Search and Rescue Region for Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is now underway.
- Search activities today will involve a total of 10 aircraft.
- Nine military aircraft will join today’s search. They include two Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) P3 Orions, a Republic of Korea P3 Orion, a Republic of Korea C130 Hercules, a Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) P3 Orion, a Chinese military Ilyushin IL-76, a United States Navy P8 Poseidon aircraft, a Japanese coast guard jet, and a Japanese P3 Orion.
- One civil aircraft will act as a communications relay in the search area today.
- The first aircraft to leave Perth for the search area was the Chinese Ilyushin IL-76 aircraft about 9am.
- The Republic of Korea Hercules C130 departed for the search area about 10am.
- The RNZAF P3 Orion is scheduled to depart after 11am, followed by the civil jet acting as communications relay.
- The Japan Coast Guard jet is scheduled to depart about 1pm.
- The Republic of Korea P3 Orion is scheduled to depart about 2pm.
- The two RAAF P3 Orion aircraft are scheduled to depart between 1pm and 3pm.
- The United States Navy P8 Poseidon and the Japanese P3 Orion are scheduled to depart about 5pm.
- A total of five ships have also been tasked to today’s search.
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Which is precisely why entries made that way under stressful circumstances
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Japanese satellite
A Japanese satellite has photographed about ten pieces of likely debris in the general area, overlapping previous search areas.
The convergence of sightings does give hope that if we can get a full day of searching in, we may pick up some definitive evidence of the aircraft's demise, giving closure to the families.
MH370 Lost in Indian Ocean: Japan satellite images show floating objects - Latest - New Straits Times
The convergence of sightings does give hope that if we can get a full day of searching in, we may pick up some definitive evidence of the aircraft's demise, giving closure to the families.
MH370 Lost in Indian Ocean: Japan satellite images show floating objects - Latest - New Straits Times
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It is pure supposition that the FMS was flying the a/c however.
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It's the first time I have seen it specifically mentioned but that doesn't say it hasn't occurred before.
Sensible with all the different nationalities involved.
Sensible with all the different nationalities involved.
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The Frequency is 37.5 KHz which is on the Low Frequency LF band 30khz -300khz
NO.
This is SOUND, not radio. This is ultrasonic, i.e. you can't hear it. Your dog can though. This is a SOUND on the low end of what boats use for depth-finding and sonar.
Species Approximate Range (Hz) human 64-23,000 dog 67-45,000 cat 45-64,000
NO.
This is SOUND, not radio. This is ultrasonic, i.e. you can't hear it. Your dog can though. This is a SOUND on the low end of what boats use for depth-finding and sonar.
Species Approximate Range (Hz) human 64-23,000 dog 67-45,000 cat 45-64,000