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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:39   #7501 (permalink)
 
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the critical 3 minutes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTD1
The problem seems to have happened between 1:19 and 1:22.
3 minutes is a long time where an a/c in flight and fire is concerned.

IF a fire, it would probably have started some time before the 3 minutes (e.g. nose wheel heating up and then catching fire), only reaching the critical point somewhere in those 3 minutes - knocking out comms - pilots pulling buses etc.

Other IF scenarios highly unlikely...
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:51   #7502 (permalink)
 
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Ghost Flight

Not being critical in any way - quite the reverse. Off to look at charts ...
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:54   #7503 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Just a thought but I have seen aircraft switch to standby, change the code and then re-enable the transponder. This is may be done to ensure any incorrect transition code is not transmitted.
Been answered before, so I suspect this will b yet another short lived answer but....

No need to switch the Xpdr to standby on modern kit of the type installed on the T7, you just punch in the new code..
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:06   #7504 (permalink)
 
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Not so small and not so few.. says The Daily Mail today

MH370 WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries admits CEO of Malaysian Airlines | Mail Online

Missing jet WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries: CEO of Malaysian Airlines finally admits to dangerous cargo four days after DENYING it
When asked days ago, he said it was carrying 'tonnes of mangosteens'
Lithium-ion batteries have caused 140 mid-air incidents in last 20 years
The devices are commonly used in mobile phones and laptops
Classed as dangerous by The International Civil Aviation Organisation
Reignites theory that missing flight may have crashed after on-board fire
Aviation expert said it re-affirm belief that flames started in cargo hold
One cargo plane crashed in 2010 after attempting an emergency landing
Safety report said battery caught fire and filled the flight deck with smoke
By SIMON TOMLINSON

PUBLISHED: 17:11 GMT, 21 March 2014 | UPDATED: 08:57 GMT, 22 March 2014

6,657 shares 766View
comments
Malaysian Airlines today confirmed that flight MH370 had been carrying highly flammable lithium-ion batteries in its cargo hold, re-igniting speculation that a fire may have caused its disappearance.

The admission by CEO Ahmad Jauhari comes four days after he denied the aircraft was carrying any dangerous items and nearly two weeks after the plane went missing.

He said the authorities were investigating the cargo, but did not regard the batteries as hazardous - despite the law dictating they are classed as such - because they were packaged according to safety regulations.

The revelation has thrown the spotlight back on the theory that the Boeing 777 may have been overcome by a fire, rendering the crew and passengers unconscious after inhaling toxic fumes.

Lithium-ion batteries - which are used in mobile phones and laptops - have been responsible for a number of fires on planes and have even brought aircraft down in recent years.

Malaysian Airlines today confirmed that missing MH370 (pictured on an earlier flight) had been carrying highly flammable lithium-ion batteries in its cargo hold four days after denying it had any dangerous goods on board +14

Malaysian Airlines today confirmed that missing MH370 (pictured on an earlier flight) had been carrying highly flammable lithium-ion batteries in its cargo hold four days after denying it had any dangerous goods on board

Lithium-ion batteries like this one used in laptops were being carried in the cargo hold of the flight, it was revealed by Malaysia Airlines (file picture of unconnected battery) +14
Lithium-ion batteries like this one used in laptops were being carried in the cargo hold of the flight, it was revealed by Malaysia Airlines (file picture of unconnected battery)

CHANGING RESPONSES FROM CEO
What Ahmad Jauhari said four days ago:

When asked at a press conference if there was any dangerous cargo on board, he replied: 'We had a load of mangosteens headed to China.

'It was a large quantity - about three to four tonnes of mangosteens,' he said to laughter from the media.

What he said today:

'We carried some lithium-ion small batteries, they are not big batteries and they are basically approved under the ICAO (The International Civil Aviation Organisation) under dangerous goods.'

According to US-based Federal Aviation Administration, lithium-ion batteries carried in the cargo or baggage have been responsible for more than 140 incidents between March 1991 and February 17 this year, it was reported by Malaysiakini.

In rare cases, aircraft have been destroyed as a result of fires started from the devices, although they have been cargo planes in both incidents.

In one case, UPS Airlines Flight 6 crashed while attempting an emergency landing in September 2010 en route from Dubai to Cologne in Germany.

Flight MH370 disappeared from radar screens two weeks ago on March 8 after taking off from Kuala Lumpur bound for Beijing.

The second day of a new search, concentrating on a desolate area in the southern Indian Ocean, failed to locate two possible pieces of debris from the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

Aircraft and ships scoured the seas around 2,500kilometres off the coast of the Australian city of Perth, for 10 hours before darkness fell. Australian officials have vowed to continue the search tomorrow.

Billie Vincent, the former head of security for the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, said the revelation re-affirmed his belief that flames started in the cargo hold, destroying the aircraft's communication systems then filling the cabin with toxic fumes.

This, he says, would have overwhelmed the passengers but may have given the pilots a chance to divert the aircraft for an emergency landing.

He told Air Traffic Management: 'The data released thus far most likely points to a problem with hazardous materials.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:13   #7505 (permalink)
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Ok, so if it caught fire, it would not have stayed airborne for hours. So where is the wreckage?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:16   #7506 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Been answered before, so I suspect this will b yet another short lived answer but....

No need to switch the Xpdr to standby on modern kit of the type installed on the T7, you just punch in the new code..
This FO was new to the aircraft. Was he even told there was no need? Even if he was, old habits are hard to break.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:28   #7507 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Ok, so if it caught fire, it would not have stayed airborne for hours. So where is the wreckage?
How do you know it didn't burn itself out before doing too much damage? The plane could have flown itself until it's fuel was exhausted.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:32   #7508 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
This FO was new to the aircraft. Was he even told there was no need? Even if he was, old habits are hard to break.
Good point.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:32   #7509 (permalink)
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Ok, point taken.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:33   #7510 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
This FO was new to the aircraft. Was he even told there was no need? Even if he was, old habits are hard to break.
Does anybody have a source to establish exactly how many flight hours he has on the 777?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:33   #7511 (permalink)
 
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Ghost Flight

Capt Kremin

Constant magnetic headings over this scale are indeed weird.

First, wind drift leads to a non-recoverable drift of longitude coordinate.

Second the longitude drift rate for given wind strength increases as latitude becomes more polar.

So the westerlies could have more effect on the longitude of the end point than the easterlies.

So a more Westerly heading would be needed to arrive in the same place.

And the aircraft would arrive there on a more Westerly heading - ie on a heading nearer to the direct track.

It's a rhumb world.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:40   #7512 (permalink)
 
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cabin air contamination?

There is a lot of talk about decompression and the subsequent affects of hypoxia on crew and passengers.
There is another possible cause for crew incapacitation, which is insidious and can appear similar in nature to hypoxia- cabin air contamination.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:42   #7513 (permalink)
 
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Does anybody have a source to establish exactly how many flight hours he has on the 777?


Richard Quest was on one of his training flights in Feb (19th). So he had one to maybe three months experience on the 777.


First officer on missing jet was transitioning to 777-200s - CNN.com
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:45   #7514 (permalink)
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Quote:
Ok, so if it caught fire, it would not have stayed airborne for hours. So where is the wreckage?
SOPS,
They did stop searching in the South China Sea about 10 days ago. Did they cover it all, did all countries check their waters and coastlines. Answer IS no because they were all told to stop due the Sat data. Well IMHO the SATCOM installation which is above the economy section in B777 at the back of the aircraft could have still been pinging as wreckage in the ocean which subsequently sunk after 08:11. The only thing needed for accurate handshakes is ADIRU info for direction. If this ADIRU info was cut surely it would still handshake at its last recorded position of the satellite MAY NOT BE STRONG SIGNAL but floating in the sea it would vary in strength. The Satcom installation in the B777 is totally autonomous to the rest of the avionics which are located in the pointed end of the jet. It has its own power supply, battery is close by Rack E10, SDU Satellite Data Unit, BSU Beam steering unit ( which would be stuck in one position after no ADIRU info)in Rack E11. They will have to retrace their searches and cover new areas in the South China Sea and Malacca straits, this time Thailand needs to be included. All options are still on the table.
Formation Drivers theory on an intense Lithium Ion battery fire in the forward cargo and then burning antenna connections or boxes in or near the forward avionics is still plausible. Loss of the Transponder and the VHF effectively simultaneously would indicate some coaxial junction box may have been damaged.

Last edited by Sheep Guts; 23rd Mar 2014 at 16:02.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:49   #7515 (permalink)
 
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The live ATC archive has vanished of their website, anyone else see this?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:58   #7516 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misd-agin View Post
Does anybody have a source to establish exactly how many flight hours he has on the 777?


Richard Quest was on one of his training flights in Feb (19th). So he had one to maybe three months experience on the 777.


First officer on missing jet was transitioning to 777-200s - CNN.com
Was the FO finished with his training? Has it been established whether or not this was a Line Indoctrination flight?

The Captain was an examiner so there is a good chance the FO was not fully qualified yet.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 15:59   #7517 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coagie
How do you know it didn't burn itself out before doing too much damage? The plane could have flown itself until it's fuel was exhausted.
Does not explain anything as a fire to destroy all communication etc would also render the plane's hydraulic systems and electrics to fail too, making the plane unable to continue flying for long.

Seriously, how can you believe such a theory when it turned around as we know, but not towards the airport?

Compare that to other major fires where communication of the situation on board was relayed to ATC (SR111 & SA295).
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:06   #7518 (permalink)
 
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Is it known what type of transponder MH370 had?

There are at least two configurations that I know of. One has a keypad and one has rotary selectors. Do they both automatically go to "Standby" while a new code is being selected?



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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:09   #7519 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Do they both go to "Standby" when a new code is selected?
I have operated both types and not ever gone to STBY to select a new code.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 16:11   #7520 (permalink)
 
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That doesn't answer the question as to whether or not they "automatically" go to standby while selecting a new code.
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