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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:02   #7501 (permalink)
 
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Ghost Plane

@ Capt Kremin

Is there any info on how disruptive wind be over that flight? Could a significantly different HDG end up there?


Oops - edit region to flight.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:08   #7502 (permalink)
 
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Rightbase, I dont have the winds on the day but a southerly track in that area would generally be all crosswind, there for I have used TAS as GS. It is a guesstimate. Generally in the tropics you have easterlies becoming westerlies the further you go south. they wouldn't even out because the westerlies are generally stronger.. It makes the direct track = deliberate action case that much stronger.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:08   #7503 (permalink)
 
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"Sky asked whether there were lithium batteries on board during one of the press conferences. In my opinion, the answer given was non-conclusive, far from being a confirmation - despite the reports. There might well have been, but I'd rather see the cargo manifest to be certain. "


Thx GobonaStick,

Strange officials will not give clear yes or no answer!

Last edited by N4565L; 23rd Mar 2014 at 13:11. Reason: Left out quote, standalone reply would not make sense to other readers
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:12   #7504 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
This is costing the Chinese massively in Satellite resources.
Not only them, the BBc are reporting France is retasking one of theres to redo the area as well.

That table showing all the resources that countrys are putting in should have a column for satellites.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:18   #7505 (permalink)
 
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Capt Kremin

There have been a few posts on this thread that have been masterly in their insight. Yours is one of them. Thank you.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:20   #7506 (permalink)
 
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LI Batteries in cargo

Quote:
Originally Posted by N4565L
where Malaysian official stated cargo included lithium batteries
There was covered many pages ago. The MAS CEO (at one of the press conferences) stated there were some small LI batts not big ones. No further elaboration was given. At subsequent conferences, the line was changed to - cargo list is with investigators. Incidentally, in an earlier conference, mangosteens were mentioned.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:28   #7507 (permalink)
 
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If MH370 wreckage found in Southern Indian ocean.....

@Capt Kremin

Nice one, very informative.

On the wind issue, a uniform wind over the track would be taken out in the fitting of the ping data, it is just a triangle of velocities. As you say, a changing wind would give more deviation from the tracks you show.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:30   #7508 (permalink)
 
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Fuel levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Kremlin
only valid if:.....
2. the fuel on board could have kept the aircraft flying for that length of time
MAS CEO had stated that a/c had enough fuel to reach Beijing + contingencies.

Recall many years ago a MAS flight on hold over LHR had to declare an emergency as they had insufficient fuel. Believe UK authorities had investigated and imposed a fine. Don't know if MAS bean counters have changed policy to save fuel.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:30   #7509 (permalink)
 
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Why would the transponder be switched off if it wasn't unlawful interference. Just a thought but I have seen aircraft switch to standby, change the code and then re-enable the transponder. This is may be done to ensure any incorrect transition code is not transmitted. So 'what if' the pilot switched to standby to select another code, changed the code and then became distracted, either by hypoxia or another event and never switched the transponder back on? What is SOP on MAS?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:35   #7510 (permalink)
 
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Hi,

Well .... in a few days this was some sat findings (photos) that made the news and officially aknowledged ..
Now the french sat will certainly provide the same kind of data ....
Unfortunately no one of those debris photographied by sats where seen by human eyes ....
Where this is going ?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:39   #7511 (permalink)
 
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the critical 3 minutes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTD1
The problem seems to have happened between 1:19 and 1:22.
3 minutes is a long time where an a/c in flight and fire is concerned.

IF a fire, it would probably have started some time before the 3 minutes (e.g. nose wheel heating up and then catching fire), only reaching the critical point somewhere in those 3 minutes - knocking out comms - pilots pulling buses etc.

Other IF scenarios highly unlikely...
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:51   #7512 (permalink)
 
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Ghost Flight

Not being critical in any way - quite the reverse. Off to look at charts ...
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:54   #7513 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Just a thought but I have seen aircraft switch to standby, change the code and then re-enable the transponder. This is may be done to ensure any incorrect transition code is not transmitted.
Been answered before, so I suspect this will b yet another short lived answer but....

No need to switch the Xpdr to standby on modern kit of the type installed on the T7, you just punch in the new code..
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:06   #7514 (permalink)
 
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Not so small and not so few.. says The Daily Mail today

MH370 WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries admits CEO of Malaysian Airlines | Mail Online

Missing jet WAS carrying highly flammable lithium batteries: CEO of Malaysian Airlines finally admits to dangerous cargo four days after DENYING it
When asked days ago, he said it was carrying 'tonnes of mangosteens'
Lithium-ion batteries have caused 140 mid-air incidents in last 20 years
The devices are commonly used in mobile phones and laptops
Classed as dangerous by The International Civil Aviation Organisation
Reignites theory that missing flight may have crashed after on-board fire
Aviation expert said it re-affirm belief that flames started in cargo hold
One cargo plane crashed in 2010 after attempting an emergency landing
Safety report said battery caught fire and filled the flight deck with smoke
By SIMON TOMLINSON

PUBLISHED: 17:11 GMT, 21 March 2014 | UPDATED: 08:57 GMT, 22 March 2014

6,657 shares 766View
comments
Malaysian Airlines today confirmed that flight MH370 had been carrying highly flammable lithium-ion batteries in its cargo hold, re-igniting speculation that a fire may have caused its disappearance.

The admission by CEO Ahmad Jauhari comes four days after he denied the aircraft was carrying any dangerous items and nearly two weeks after the plane went missing.

He said the authorities were investigating the cargo, but did not regard the batteries as hazardous - despite the law dictating they are classed as such - because they were packaged according to safety regulations.

The revelation has thrown the spotlight back on the theory that the Boeing 777 may have been overcome by a fire, rendering the crew and passengers unconscious after inhaling toxic fumes.

Lithium-ion batteries - which are used in mobile phones and laptops - have been responsible for a number of fires on planes and have even brought aircraft down in recent years.

Malaysian Airlines today confirmed that missing MH370 (pictured on an earlier flight) had been carrying highly flammable lithium-ion batteries in its cargo hold four days after denying it had any dangerous goods on board +14

Malaysian Airlines today confirmed that missing MH370 (pictured on an earlier flight) had been carrying highly flammable lithium-ion batteries in its cargo hold four days after denying it had any dangerous goods on board

Lithium-ion batteries like this one used in laptops were being carried in the cargo hold of the flight, it was revealed by Malaysia Airlines (file picture of unconnected battery) +14
Lithium-ion batteries like this one used in laptops were being carried in the cargo hold of the flight, it was revealed by Malaysia Airlines (file picture of unconnected battery)

CHANGING RESPONSES FROM CEO
What Ahmad Jauhari said four days ago:

When asked at a press conference if there was any dangerous cargo on board, he replied: 'We had a load of mangosteens headed to China.

'It was a large quantity - about three to four tonnes of mangosteens,' he said to laughter from the media.

What he said today:

'We carried some lithium-ion small batteries, they are not big batteries and they are basically approved under the ICAO (The International Civil Aviation Organisation) under dangerous goods.'

According to US-based Federal Aviation Administration, lithium-ion batteries carried in the cargo or baggage have been responsible for more than 140 incidents between March 1991 and February 17 this year, it was reported by Malaysiakini.

In rare cases, aircraft have been destroyed as a result of fires started from the devices, although they have been cargo planes in both incidents.

In one case, UPS Airlines Flight 6 crashed while attempting an emergency landing in September 2010 en route from Dubai to Cologne in Germany.

Flight MH370 disappeared from radar screens two weeks ago on March 8 after taking off from Kuala Lumpur bound for Beijing.

The second day of a new search, concentrating on a desolate area in the southern Indian Ocean, failed to locate two possible pieces of debris from the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

Aircraft and ships scoured the seas around 2,500kilometres off the coast of the Australian city of Perth, for 10 hours before darkness fell. Australian officials have vowed to continue the search tomorrow.

Billie Vincent, the former head of security for the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, said the revelation re-affirmed his belief that flames started in the cargo hold, destroying the aircraft's communication systems then filling the cabin with toxic fumes.

This, he says, would have overwhelmed the passengers but may have given the pilots a chance to divert the aircraft for an emergency landing.

He told Air Traffic Management: 'The data released thus far most likely points to a problem with hazardous materials.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:13   #7515 (permalink)
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Ok, so if it caught fire, it would not have stayed airborne for hours. So where is the wreckage?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:16   #7516 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Been answered before, so I suspect this will b yet another short lived answer but....

No need to switch the Xpdr to standby on modern kit of the type installed on the T7, you just punch in the new code..
This FO was new to the aircraft. Was he even told there was no need? Even if he was, old habits are hard to break.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:28   #7517 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Ok, so if it caught fire, it would not have stayed airborne for hours. So where is the wreckage?
How do you know it didn't burn itself out before doing too much damage? The plane could have flown itself until it's fuel was exhausted.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:32   #7518 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
This FO was new to the aircraft. Was he even told there was no need? Even if he was, old habits are hard to break.
Good point.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:32   #7519 (permalink)
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Ok, point taken.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 14:33   #7520 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
This FO was new to the aircraft. Was he even told there was no need? Even if he was, old habits are hard to break.
Does anybody have a source to establish exactly how many flight hours he has on the 777?
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