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Old 25th Oct 2013, 08:15   #1 (permalink)
 
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A Fokker 27 loses it's propeller at take-off in Paris (CDG)

Un avion postal atterrit en urgence à Roissy après la perte d'un bout d'hélice - Société - MYTF1News

Serious damage to the cabin, aparently.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 09:13   #2 (permalink)
 
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Being reported as an F-27 of Europe Airpost, which is strange as they only fly 737s.

Possibly one of MiniLiner's aircraft, which have operated FPO services in the past.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 09:22   #3 (permalink)
 
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Aircraft owned by Miniliner, Italy.


Propeller falls off Paris plane and chops hole in fuselage – The Connexion
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 09:51   #4 (permalink)
 
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Ha Ha, "thousands of RPM " "Engine exploded"

The exesses of Press hyperbole are alive and well in ""la Belle France" (but it's a rag aimed at the expat market, note.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 10:06   #5 (permalink)
 
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IIRC the Dart does 15000 rpm at T.O. and with a 10 : 1 reduction the prop will be doing 1500 rpm.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 11:04   #6 (permalink)

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Just like the good old days - how many DC-7 props are there at the bottom of the Atlantic?
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 11:40   #7 (permalink)
 
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Flightglobal reporting that it happened at 1,000ft and that the prop went right through the fuselage. That'd make you jump.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 12:10   #8 (permalink)
 
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Lost propeller

I've just heard that the GTA (Gendarmerie du Transport Aérien) is asking that, if people find a (part of a)propeller in their garden or their kitchen to contact them immediately
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 12:15   #9 (permalink)
 
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Which runway was used ? Just to know where to give a look...
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 12:34   #10 (permalink)
 
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It would be interesting to learn whether the whole propeller detached, or whether a blade detached/broke initially, perhaps followed by the others in consequence due to the loads from imbalance.

It sounds as though it was a blade; if the whole propeller assembly fell off, I cannot see it "going through the cabin" although I'm finding it hard to picture what it would do instead.

An "explosion" of the engine, if that really happened before the propeller (or blade) came off, could only have been an uncontained turbine disintegration; I can't think of any other event that could be called an "explosion".

But the F27 has, if I recall correctly, a containment ring, and there is no real reason why the prop should detach, or a blade break, as a result of turbine disintegration.

So I wonder if the "explosion" is just journalese for "it all fell apart with a bang", referring to the propeller/blade loss itself?

Last edited by Capot; 25th Oct 2013 at 12:41.
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 12:59   #11 (permalink)
 
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If it had been a tensile failure/release of the prop shaft, the whole prop would likely have shot straight ahead, missing the aircraft completely. There is some precedent for this.

Most any other mode (broken blade, gear case breakage, etc.) could release parts in the plane of rotation, penetrating the fuselage. This could cause enough imbalance in the core engine that massive rotor/stator clashes could happen, causing stalls/surges that would seem "explosive".
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Old 25th Oct 2013, 13:27   #12 (permalink)
 
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They were fortunate. I lost a friend on this one. If they had been able to retract the gear and if the stew hadn't moved the pax to the back of the airplane, the outcome may have been different. There were at least two other similar accidents, to my knowledge.

QB 255.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 00:49   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
They were fortunate. I lost a friend on this one. If they had been able to retract the gear and if the stew hadn't moved the pax to the back of the airplane, the outcome may have been different. There were at least two other similar accidents, to my knowledge.

QB 255.
Big difference between an engine impeller and an aircraft propeller blade.

Nevertheless both are quite likely to penetrate a fuselage if they break apart.

Whole single blade losses tend to be the worst since they often break the gearbox and allow the remaining prop assy and gear box to linger about for awhile and end up on the wing leading edge surface.

I can't possibly tell from a news article what actually broke first
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 02:11   #14 (permalink)
 
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A Fokker loses its propeller in France...and an ATR of Vietnam Airlines looses its Nosewheel in Da Nang...all the entire fleet is now grounded until anyone get answers...
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 03:14   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Big difference between an engine impeller and an aircraft propeller blade.

I can't possibly tell from a news article what actually broke first.
Quote:
C'est un incident rare. L'explosion d'un moteur d'un avion de fret a détaché l'hélice et endommagé l'appareil, l'obligeant à atterrir d'urgence. La gendarmerie est encore à la recherche de l'hélice à quatre pales. Celle-ci a creusé "un énorme trou" dans le corps de l'appareil, un Fokker F27 de la société Europe Airpost, qui ne transportait aucun passager. L'équipage est sain et sauf. "Son moteur gauche a explosé alors qu'il venait de décoller. L'hélice, formée de quatre pales, a alors traversé le fuselage. Heureusement qu'il n'y avait que des sacs de fret postal car sinon on aurait à cette heure-ci à déplorer des victimes", a-t-on décrit à la GTA. "L'avion a pu se poser après le déclenchement d'une procédure d'urgence", a-t-on ajouté.

La GTA de l'aéroport de Roissy lance un appel à témoins et cherche "tout ou partie de l'hélice", y compris des débris, qui pourraient l'aider à comprendre les causes et circonstances de l'accident. Cette pièce de grande envergure n'avait pas encore été retrouvée vendredi matin sur le tarmac ou aux abords de l'aéroport.
According to the article the engine exploded and the prop departed the aircraft. The police are still looking for the four-bladed propeller and the GTA from Roissy are looking for witnesses and all or part of the propeller or any debris that will help understand the causes and circumstances of the accident.

The QB crew may also have been able to come around and land but for several reasons.The weather at the time was 300 X 1/2 -SN. They took off on R06 and lost the engine right at rotation. The prop and nose casing was found on the runway. Debris had penetrated the DC electrical panel behind the co-pilot seat and they were unable to raised the gear plus the lower cowling had come unfastened and had swung down and lodged against the MLG drag strut. Added to that the stew moved some passengers from the right to the left side of the aircraft - away from the fire - and in doing so the aft C of G was exceeded. They were attempting a split assed right turn to remain visual and come around and land on R30, the threshold of which was co-located with R06 at the time. They almost made it, they crashed just short of the R30 approach lights.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 05:09   #16 (permalink)
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The French article would seem to indicate that there were no passengers on board the postal freight F27.
One anomaly that existed between F27 operations in Europe and in Africa is that water methanol never seemed to be carried in Europe and in the UK. I wonder if you can even find it these days?
If WM were ever to find its way on board, in at least one major UK F27 operator, the Ops manual directions for its use were quite in contradiction to the Fokker F27 manual where, if memory serves, all approaches were made with WM selected ON in order to furnish max power for a go around. Take offs were wet or dry of course and the dichotomy then lay, in the event of catastrophic engine failure, in having to reduce power on the operational engine to below 14,700RPM(??) engage WM and then power up again to max.
Useful stuff that, which in moderation gave an added boost to a V8 car engine.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 05:18   #17 (permalink)
 
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I think Air UK used to carry watermeth in summer on the UK East Coast routes, Norwich, Humberside, Edinburgh, Aberdeen?
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 06:26   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
A Fokker loses its propeller in France...and an ATR of Vietnam Airlines looses its Nosewheel in Da Nang...all the entire fleet is now grounded until anyone get answers
I think you may want to check your sources.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 10:51   #19 (permalink)
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Jersey European carried w/m all of the time. They did operate the 500 series which were heavier. Difficult for most of the year to operate without it at places like Belfast City,Leeds and Southampton with heavy loads.
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Old 26th Oct 2013, 11:17   #20 (permalink)
 
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Dart engine, catastrophic failure on take off

AAIB report on HS748 G-OJEM at Stansted 1998, worth a read regarding uncontained failure of RR Dart engine on take off

Last edited by Fangio; 26th Oct 2013 at 11:33.
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