Crash in Laos
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Xeque:
Do you have a copy of the METAR in effect at the time of the accident?
If the rain was as heavy as you allege they probably wouldn't have had the required visual references at MDA or DA.
Bit of reality needed here.
The aircraft was 6 months old so no major maintenance issues.
I live in Thailand where we are experiencing the aftermath of a major weather system the same system being a contributing factor to this accident in Laos. At times here (and we are several hundred miles from the crash site) the rain has been so heavy that road traffic has been slowed to a crawl because you simply cannot see any distance in front of you.
There is only one question to ask. Was it prudent to continue the approach in such severe weather conditions?
The aircraft was 6 months old so no major maintenance issues.
I live in Thailand where we are experiencing the aftermath of a major weather system the same system being a contributing factor to this accident in Laos. At times here (and we are several hundred miles from the crash site) the rain has been so heavy that road traffic has been slowed to a crawl because you simply cannot see any distance in front of you.
There is only one question to ask. Was it prudent to continue the approach in such severe weather conditions?
If the rain was as heavy as you allege they probably wouldn't have had the required visual references at MDA or DA.
If the impact location on wikipedia is correct, that would indicate something happened halfway through the immediate righthand turn in the missed approach of the VOR DME 15 approach.
Are Laotian pilots perhaps ex military and trained on soviet hardware? If so, spatial disorientation resulting from the attitude indicator working the other way around vs in western airplanes might have been a factor. Crossair 498 comes to mind.
For those who don't know: Soviet era attitude indicators move the airplane symbol, not the background/horizon. So instead of levelling out of a bank, the instinctive reaction would increase the bank, as happened with the Crossair 498 crew (who were Moldavian/Latvian nationals trained on said hardware).
Are Laotian pilots perhaps ex military and trained on soviet hardware? If so, spatial disorientation resulting from the attitude indicator working the other way around vs in western airplanes might have been a factor. Crossair 498 comes to mind.
For those who don't know: Soviet era attitude indicators move the airplane symbol, not the background/horizon. So instead of levelling out of a bank, the instinctive reaction would increase the bank, as happened with the Crossair 498 crew (who were Moldavian/Latvian nationals trained on said hardware).
Last edited by physicus; 17th Oct 2013 at 21:45.
If the impact location on wikipedia is correct, that would indicate something happened halfway through the immediate righthand turn in the missed approach of the VOR DME 15 approach.
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Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
The media already has all the answers, of course. I will warn you that it is a rather egregious case of sensationalism.
The media already has all the answers, of course. I will warn you that it is a rather egregious case of sensationalism.
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Coords
AFAIK, coords in the Wikipedia article were sourced from The Aviation Herald, so should be reliable. 
Last edited by Super VC-10; 18th Oct 2013 at 07:48. Reason: clarify
David R
Politics at its best, I wouldn't place too much value on what was quoted in the article.
As for the wider issue of the MA-60's safety, it's worth bearing in mind what the NZ government has said on the subject, in advice to travellers to Tonga:
"Tonga’s domestic airline fleet currently includes an MA-60 aircraft. This aircraft has been involved in a significant number of accidents in the last few years. The MA-60 is not certified to fly in New Zealand or other comparable jurisdictions and would not be allowed to do so without a thorough certification process under Civil Aviation rules. Travellers utilising the MA-60 do so at their own risk."
"Tonga’s domestic airline fleet currently includes an MA-60 aircraft. This aircraft has been involved in a significant number of accidents in the last few years. The MA-60 is not certified to fly in New Zealand or other comparable jurisdictions and would not be allowed to do so without a thorough certification process under Civil Aviation rules. Travellers utilising the MA-60 do so at their own risk."
I wouldn't place too much value on what was quoted in the article.
Tonga’s domestic airline fleet currently includes an MA-60 aircraft.
This aircraft has been involved in a significant number of accidents in the last few years.
The MA-60 is not certified to fly in New Zealand or other comparable jurisdictions and would not be allowed to do so without a thorough certification process under Civil Aviation rules.
Travellers utilising the MA-60 do so at their own risk.
This aircraft has been involved in a significant number of accidents in the last few years.
The MA-60 is not certified to fly in New Zealand or other comparable jurisdictions and would not be allowed to do so without a thorough certification process under Civil Aviation rules.
Travellers utilising the MA-60 do so at their own risk.
1 is arguably true (6 hull losses in less than 5 years)
and 1 is simply a recommendation (albeit a prudent one IMHO)
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Experience has shown that Simon Hradecky takes great care not to post incorrect info. Note the criticism from some quarters re the time it took him to post details of the accident at Aviation Herald, and the supporters who back him up in only posting verifiable facts, not speculation. Note also the lack of speculation in the Wikipedia article.
Aircraft crashed onto land first, before plunging into the river (see photo of skidmarks)
Bodies recovered in Mekong after Laos plane crash | Aiken Standard
Bodies recovered in Mekong after Laos plane crash | Aiken Standard
Any professional pilot should know how to obtain notams, did not realise we needed to go to this level.
A0020/97 NOTAMN
Q) VLVT/QNMCT/IV/BO /AE/000/999/1512N10545E020
A) VLPS B) 9704030935 C) 9707020935EST
E) NEW PAKSE VOR/DME 115.0/CH97X ON TEST.
CREATED: 06 Nov 2002 05:50:00
SOURCE: VLVTYNYX
A0020/97 NOTAMN
Q) VLVT/QNMCT/IV/BO /AE/000/999/1512N10545E020
A) VLPS B) 9704030935 C) 9707020935EST
E) NEW PAKSE VOR/DME 115.0/CH97X ON TEST.
CREATED: 06 Nov 2002 05:50:00
SOURCE: VLVTYNYX
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Physicus
If Lao pilots are not ex military where do you think they get their experience?
We are talking about a poor country where only military and a very few handful of elite can learn to fly. Laos has no flying schools or private flight training.If you've ever been to some of the small airports you'll know facilities are basic to say the least. From my conversations with friends in Lao the weather was not good over the last week. Trying to land in a place like that would not have been easy given the circumstances.
I doubt it was anything more than severe weather that caused this accident.
Worth looking back on the Phuket OneTwoGo accident for more info.
If the impact location on wikipedia is correct, that would indicate something happened halfway through the immediate righthand turn in the missed approach of the VOR DME 15 approach.
Are Laotian pilots perhaps ex military and trained on soviet hardware? If so, spatial disorientation resulting from the attitude indicator working the other way around vs in western airplanes might have been a factor. Crossair 498 comes to mind.
For those who don't know: Soviet era attitude indicators move the airplane symbol, not the background/horizon. So instead of levelling out of a bank, the instinctive reaction would increase the bank, as happened with the Crossair 498 crew (who were Moldavian/Latvian nationals trained on said hardware).
Are Laotian pilots perhaps ex military and trained on soviet hardware? If so, spatial disorientation resulting from the attitude indicator working the other way around vs in western airplanes might have been a factor. Crossair 498 comes to mind.
For those who don't know: Soviet era attitude indicators move the airplane symbol, not the background/horizon. So instead of levelling out of a bank, the instinctive reaction would increase the bank, as happened with the Crossair 498 crew (who were Moldavian/Latvian nationals trained on said hardware).
We are talking about a poor country where only military and a very few handful of elite can learn to fly. Laos has no flying schools or private flight training.If you've ever been to some of the small airports you'll know facilities are basic to say the least. From my conversations with friends in Lao the weather was not good over the last week. Trying to land in a place like that would not have been easy given the circumstances.
I doubt it was anything more than severe weather that caused this accident.
Worth looking back on the Phuket OneTwoGo accident for more info.
Last edited by Ye Olde Pilot; 18th Oct 2013 at 23:22.
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Lao Airlines Crash
Lao Airlines pilot told to change course before crash
According to news report, the pilot was Cambodian with over 30 years of flying experience and trained in Russian and France.
According to news report, the pilot was Cambodian with over 30 years of flying experience and trained in Russian and France.
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The weather station at Pakse Airport [VLPS] transmitted only NIL Metars on Oct 16th
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1 is arguably true (6 hull losses in less than 5 years)
Last edited by training wheels; 19th Oct 2013 at 08:46. Reason: grammar
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Thanks for taking me to 'that level', swh - to complete your entry can you explain the significance of an 11 year old NOTAM in this accident?
Do we assume there are, in fact, no relevant NOTAMS?
Do we assume there are, in fact, no relevant NOTAMS?