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Old 16th Jan 2013, 22:24   #1 (permalink)
 
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FAA Grounds 787s

CNN's "Breaking News" reports say the US FAA has decided to "temporarily" ground all 787 aircraft for safety concerns until a fire risk can be evaluated.

Can't say I'm surprised after the action in Japan, but it can't be good for Boeing. IIRC, United is the only US carrier operating the Dreamliner. Since delivery, they have been used only on domestic US routes. They were to have inaugurated IAH-LOS service with the plane, but that was delayed some time ago.

ETA: CNN website headline reads "U.S. regulators order airlines to ground all Boeing 787 Dreamliners until battery fire risk issue is solved"

Last edited by Carbon Bootprint; 16th Jan 2013 at 22:50.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 22:46   #2 (permalink)
 
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Headliner here in Boeing land...

The Seattle Times | News, sports, weather, events in the Northwest
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 22:56   #3 (permalink)
 
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Another link from the Wall Street Journal: FAA Grounds U.S. Boeing 787 Dreamliner Flights - WSJ.com

Boeing stock down by 3.4%.

Last edited by crHedBngr; 16th Jan 2013 at 23:01.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 01:32   #4 (permalink)
 
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Are they Chinese batteries? Why can't we just use US batteries if that is the problem. I hope our country can get away from china . I try to make all my purchases from American manufacturers. I bought two HDMI cables made in china, one worked. Sent it back and bought it for less than half of what I paid for the China and everything worked for one third the cost. Let us all just buy from America. Our US made batteries alway worked just fine in jets.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 01:48   #5 (permalink)
 
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bubbers...really?
Lets just suspect that you have at least a basic 4th grade education, and I will go out on a limb on that, it is very easy to determine that the batteries were made by a Japanese Company, in fact, much of the aircraft was made in Japan...
You will also find that there are virtually NO batteries made in the US.

It appears you have internet, so do a search for where the parts of Boeing aircraft are made. You will find that virtually the entire aircraft parts are made outside the US, and ASSEMBLED in the US.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 01:51   #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Are they Chinese batteries?
No.

As for the rest of your diatribe; how does that saying go regarding specks in one's own eye first? I'm certainly one of the last people on the planet to speak up in favour of the Chinese but there are plenty of incidents and accidents that have been caused by US-produced parts: centre fuel pumps, landing gear actuators, rudder servos etc, so it's probably a good idea to stop flinging those stones around in your glasshouse.

In making the 787 Boeing out-sourced more manufacturing and parts than on any model aircraft they've previously built. This, of course, contributed to the delivery delays and now we are, possibly, seeing another downside to their strategy. IF the batteries are to blame, and not some other system that's causing the batteries to misbehave then, by all means, get the problem sorted but there's nothing to suggest the batteries of the US are any better, or worse, than those produced elsewhere.

Quote:
Our US made batteries alway worked just fine in jets.
I couldn't tell you where the batteries on any of the aircraft I've flown were made. Can you tell me that all the jets in which the batteries 'worked just fine' were made in the USA?


Edited to add: Sorry FBO, looks like we crossed in the post. I must type faster in future

Last edited by Pontius; 17th Jan 2013 at 01:53.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 02:33   #7 (permalink)
 
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[Long time lurker, didn't envisage registration finally being prompted quite how it was, but there you go...]

bubbers44:

Setting aside where the batteries are manufactured for a second, there are numerous technical differences between the batteries and the systems they're used for on a 787 than almost anything else in the sky, particularly airliners. They'd still be vastly different to practically everything gone before even if they were made by uncle sam's own fair hand.

It's self-defeating to write off the rest of the world so quickly too, since large swathes of it are at least capable enough to realise that your ignorant outlook is unlikely to be high on a normal distribution curve for fellow citizens of your beloved US of A.

To save everyone some frustration, you should probably disconnect the computer/smartphone/whatever you used to post that bilge, as it's sure shootn certain to be full of foreign manufactured components. Perhaps even li-ion from the far east.

To everyone else:

Greetings, and apologies for that opening rant.

While I'm normally an advocate of a 'better safe than sorry' outlook, it's a shame that these issues are feeding the news stand machine; which of course risks disproportionately affecting perception of the aircraft and/or the technology onboard.

Here's hoping that the situation is resolved and aircraft returned to flight before the tabloid media smell blood.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 03:14   #8 (permalink)
 
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Bubbers, are you for real, the USA doesn't make much any more; I read last year that GE closed their last light bulb factory and all the bulbs are now made in China.

Chinese batteries seem to be good enough for everyones laptops, Ipads, digital cameras, etc...

BTW, how long before Airbus change their website? Home*| A350 XWB by Airbus

Seems they intend to use Li-Ion cells too.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 03:25   #9 (permalink)
 
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Lithium Ion batteries have had their fire problems in computers, cars, drills, just about in everything in which they have been used. I remember several years ago a regional carrier on which I often flew wouldn't let us have our carry-on computer bags that wouldn't fit go into the hold due to battery fire danger. We had to take the computer and spare batteries if we had them out and keep them with us at our seat where a fire hazard would be easily identified. Back then it was suspected contamination in the battery material. By the way Airbus does use some Lithium-ion batteries on current planes but nowhere to the extent of the 787.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 03:54   #10 (permalink)
 
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The batteries in this case are made by Yuasa - a Japanese company. Personally, I am beginning to suspect that the global nature of this project has proved a bit too much of a management challenge for Boeing.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 04:06   #11 (permalink)
 
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Batteries or else the ultimate responsibility lies with B. They selected all subcontractors, suppliers including QA checks etc. and I suppose also conducted all steps necessary for certification.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 05:49   #12 (permalink)

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I suspect Boing forced the pace a bit too much in order to play catch-up with Airbus.
Chickens and roost come to mind.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 05:56   #13 (permalink)
 
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Made in America.

Yuasa Battery, Inc. has been manufacturing motorcycle batteries in the U.S.A.
Yuasa Batteries :: About Yuasa

GSYuasa Lithium Power | Lithium Batteries for the Next Generation

Last edited by greenspinner; 17th Jan 2013 at 05:59.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 06:15   #14 (permalink)
 
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@ Bubbers

Bubbers, you really just re-enforce my general opinion of my cousins from across the Atlantic.

Apologies to educated Americans.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 06:20   #15 (permalink)
 
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bubbers

I read bubbers post and get a mental picture of a homer simpson-ish figure pounding on a keyboard muttering "stupid chinese batteries" ...... havent visited PPRuNe for a long while......made my day really
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 06:24   #16 (permalink)
 
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Boeing will be happy to know that Air Indiis still utilizing their almost shiny B787s. Saw one taxing out in VIDP this morning.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 06:27   #17 (permalink)
 
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And I hope bubbers noted the passenger entry doors were made by those 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys' in France.
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 06:29   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon More
I suspect Boing forced the pace a bit too much in order to play catch-up with Airbus.
Chickens and roost come to mind.
Catch up to what? Last I checked, it was Airbus playing catch-up with their A350.
Boeing's 787 order books do not paint the picture of a manufacturer in need to rush something to market.

I suspect that Old Carthusian is correct on this one.
Too many suppliers, not enough quality control.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 06:35   #19 (permalink)
 
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I was amazed to handle a small battery of the type which seems to be causing all the problems. It was for a light a/c & was about 25% lighter & smaller than the current one I am using. Surely two larger versions for the 787 could not be a significant weight penalty.? Maybe the real problem could be the unusual all electric design of this a/c. There must be huge amounts of electrical energy being shunted around the wiring looms.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 06:44   #20 (permalink)
 
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captjns,
Quote:
Boeing will be happy to know that Air Indiis still utilizing their almost shiny B787s. Saw one taxing out in VIDP this morning.
Interesting, since Reuters reports otherwise:
DGCA grounds Air India's Dreamliners after U.S. decision | Reuters
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