Cullen concern over Ryanair landings
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Absolutely right.
Based on recent events, he'll rush to pile the full blame onto the crew, fire a few scapegoats to enhance the spin that 'something is being done to correct the jet-jockies' and then continue on regardless - with fingers crossed.
And the public will lap it up.
Based on recent events, he'll rush to pile the full blame onto the crew, fire a few scapegoats to enhance the spin that 'something is being done to correct the jet-jockies' and then continue on regardless - with fingers crossed.
And the public will lap it up.
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The procedure you have observed at the outer marker is called the low drag approach,i believe in good vis conditions that is standard sop with Ryanair,and a few other operators.it goes something like this-
glide slope capture,usually required (by ATC) to maintain 160 kts to 4 miles or the outer marker(which is approx 4 miles),flaps 5 or 10,depending on a/c weight.
approaching 4 miles/outer marker gear down,flaps 15,30 etc.The a/c will be fully configured aprroaching the 1000FT "gateway" (fully configured and on speed) which is required or a go-around is required.
obviously,during low vis ops getting configured earlier is the name of the game.
Just a thought,but are all Ryan aircraft fitted with a flight data monitoring system....
so if pilots were doing,on a regular basis what this thread is all about someone would know about it..
glide slope capture,usually required (by ATC) to maintain 160 kts to 4 miles or the outer marker(which is approx 4 miles),flaps 5 or 10,depending on a/c weight.
approaching 4 miles/outer marker gear down,flaps 15,30 etc.The a/c will be fully configured aprroaching the 1000FT "gateway" (fully configured and on speed) which is required or a go-around is required.
obviously,during low vis ops getting configured earlier is the name of the game.
Just a thought,but are all Ryan aircraft fitted with a flight data monitoring system....
so if pilots were doing,on a regular basis what this thread is all about someone would know about it..
Paxing All Over The World
An Paddy Eile
Unfortunately ... you have to care because is the politician and will hold the ultimate power.
A simple example, in the UK, all Prime Ministers know that they have to change the people in charge. Thatcher did not like the BBC so she gave them a Chairman who changed their Director General who changed the BBC beyond the staff's worst nightmares. It really is that simple.
I don't care what Cullen says because he is not an aviation professional.
A simple example, in the UK, all Prime Ministers know that they have to change the people in charge. Thatcher did not like the BBC so she gave them a Chairman who changed their Director General who changed the BBC beyond the staff's worst nightmares. It really is that simple.
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PAXboy,
You're dead right. I can't really say that what he says is irrelevant. What I meant was that his statement shows that he apparently is still not yet in possession of the facts. But the fact that an investigation is even being considered is progress in my mind. That's the important bit. The accuracy of his press released statement is irrelevant.
You're dead right. I can't really say that what he says is irrelevant. What I meant was that his statement shows that he apparently is still not yet in possession of the facts. But the fact that an investigation is even being considered is progress in my mind. That's the important bit. The accuracy of his press released statement is irrelevant.
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Let's see how long we can debate the non-existant relationship between approaching/landing fast and a short turnaround
And aiming for the first exit...really, who doesn't? Ever heard of reducing RWY occupancy time?
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Spoilers, speedbrakes and knowledge
"A large dollop of spoiler" - would that have been on both wings? You couldn't see the other wing could you?
So let's say it was probably only on the wing you could see. Now I presume that you don't know that the flight (assymetric) spoiler is a feature of almost all passenger jet aircraft, acting in conjunction with the aileron system, to counter the initial adverse yaw effect which ailerons cause and speed up roll reaction.
When used in flight to increase drag, these same devices are speedbrakes. When they deploy after landing, they are ground spoilers (and usually deploy to a greater angle) This is done to kill lift, so that the aircraft sits hard on the wheels, for the wheelbrakes to work properly.
I can well imagine a last minute correction on a gusty final causing such a "dollop" to appear. No one in his right senses would attempt to slow down an airliner by pulling speedbrake on final. It is in any case forbidden past a very small flap angle.
I don't mind you not knowing this. I do mind you criticising pilots for airmanship when you have scanty knowledge.
Next bleat - what are "fast landings" anyway? Landings where the approach speed was over limits? Landings which were long because of this (the usual result of too much speed over the threshold)? In that case they are long landings and not fast ones.
Then the hard braking complaint. There are quite a few airfields (Luton is one) where if you don't make the turn off, you will have to turn back on the runway to taxy out. This causes great big problems for ATC and following aircraft, who have been counting on you making the turn. Some fields (Chicago is one) demand you stop by a certain point, because they are giving take off clearance to an aircraft on a crossing runway. Not all hard deceleration is caused by a long landing, though it can be.
I once had a passenger snarl at me as he disembarked, "I bet the copilot made that landing didn't he?" When I said that as a matter of fact he had (it was a good landing) he then sneered "But you just had to make that turn off didn't you?" Well there wasn't time to give him the course - first he would have needed one in good manners anyway - but it shows how some ignorant people try to get satifaction by assuming knowledge.
FC.
So let's say it was probably only on the wing you could see. Now I presume that you don't know that the flight (assymetric) spoiler is a feature of almost all passenger jet aircraft, acting in conjunction with the aileron system, to counter the initial adverse yaw effect which ailerons cause and speed up roll reaction.
When used in flight to increase drag, these same devices are speedbrakes. When they deploy after landing, they are ground spoilers (and usually deploy to a greater angle) This is done to kill lift, so that the aircraft sits hard on the wheels, for the wheelbrakes to work properly.
I can well imagine a last minute correction on a gusty final causing such a "dollop" to appear. No one in his right senses would attempt to slow down an airliner by pulling speedbrake on final. It is in any case forbidden past a very small flap angle.
I don't mind you not knowing this. I do mind you criticising pilots for airmanship when you have scanty knowledge.
Next bleat - what are "fast landings" anyway? Landings where the approach speed was over limits? Landings which were long because of this (the usual result of too much speed over the threshold)? In that case they are long landings and not fast ones.
Then the hard braking complaint. There are quite a few airfields (Luton is one) where if you don't make the turn off, you will have to turn back on the runway to taxy out. This causes great big problems for ATC and following aircraft, who have been counting on you making the turn. Some fields (Chicago is one) demand you stop by a certain point, because they are giving take off clearance to an aircraft on a crossing runway. Not all hard deceleration is caused by a long landing, though it can be.
I once had a passenger snarl at me as he disembarked, "I bet the copilot made that landing didn't he?" When I said that as a matter of fact he had (it was a good landing) he then sneered "But you just had to make that turn off didn't you?" Well there wasn't time to give him the course - first he would have needed one in good manners anyway - but it shows how some ignorant people try to get satifaction by assuming knowledge.
FC.
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Few Cloudy, don't mean to direct anything at you nor to pick at your post.
Without wanting to get too much off topic...
Almost every instance of hard braking in an attempt to make a particular turnoff, in particular in somewhere like Luton, has been the result of a poor approach and/or landing. In particular it is usually the result of an extended float while the pilot tries to grease the landing. (Resisting urge to get on soap box...)
No ATC anywhere will expect you to make a turnoff that is not reasonable and not within the normal performance ability of your aircraft. So, it is not enough to say that you are doing a good job because you are trying to make an exit to avoid creating problems for ATC. You would not need your good skills if you had not screwed up the flare and landing in the first place. I do not intend to to imply that I have never screwed up myself, but it's a flawed defense of hard braking.
If ATC expect you to make a turnoff that requires significantly heavier than normal braking or unusual effort, that's their problem. I'd roll on by every time, or of course tell them that I can't do it. Some pilots have a preoccupation with showing off their skills. I never understood how stopping quickly show you're good at what you do. Surely it just means that the guys who built the brakes got it right?
As for the eejits that slam on the brakes at somewhere like MAN where you have an almost endless choice of turnoffs. Don't get me started. I once flew with a Captain who stood upright on the brake pedals (his arse was practically out of his seat!) to make 'Bravo' I think it was. He had to slow to less than ten knots to make the 90 degree turn. There were two more RET's just yards away ahead of us. Without question, he was wasting significant time trying to make that turn. Either RET at 30 odd knots would have much more efficient in every way.
Then the hard braking complaint. There are quite a few airfields (Luton is one) where if you don't make the turn off, you will have to turn back on the runway to taxy out. This causes great big problems for ATC and following aircraft, who have been counting on you making the turn.
Almost every instance of hard braking in an attempt to make a particular turnoff, in particular in somewhere like Luton, has been the result of a poor approach and/or landing. In particular it is usually the result of an extended float while the pilot tries to grease the landing. (Resisting urge to get on soap box...)
Not all hard deceleration is caused by a long landing
If ATC expect you to make a turnoff that requires significantly heavier than normal braking or unusual effort, that's their problem. I'd roll on by every time, or of course tell them that I can't do it. Some pilots have a preoccupation with showing off their skills. I never understood how stopping quickly show you're good at what you do. Surely it just means that the guys who built the brakes got it right?
As for the eejits that slam on the brakes at somewhere like MAN where you have an almost endless choice of turnoffs. Don't get me started. I once flew with a Captain who stood upright on the brake pedals (his arse was practically out of his seat!) to make 'Bravo' I think it was. He had to slow to less than ten knots to make the 90 degree turn. There were two more RET's just yards away ahead of us. Without question, he was wasting significant time trying to make that turn. Either RET at 30 odd knots would have much more efficient in every way.
>I don't mind you not knowing this. I do mind you criticising pilots for airmanship when you have scanty knowledge.
Oh dear. This has all got a bit fraught.
I made it absolutely clear from the first line of my first post in this thread that I was no expert. I don't claim to be, and I don't know all the terminology. This is easy to spot and a "soft target".
I simply wanted to bring in the passenger's perspective on this issue. Maybe this is not important.
And, if you were in my postion, saw spoilers shoot up with no noticable roll, followed by a very hard wallop, what would you conclude?
The issue is simple. And, sadly, I need to state it again. Heavy landings and obvious rapid deceleration hack off the passengers and give the unfavourable impression of unnceccessary haste.
And Ryanair seem to be an airline in a terribile hurry.
Take a look at this thread:-
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236492
Twelve years of working at the commercial sharp end of the airline business, meeting regular flyers and high spending cutomers, taught me that what are termed "SLF" are far more perceptive than is maybe realised.
I simply brought my (admittedly partial) knowledge of the operational side of the business into my post.
r
Oh dear. This has all got a bit fraught.
I made it absolutely clear from the first line of my first post in this thread that I was no expert. I don't claim to be, and I don't know all the terminology. This is easy to spot and a "soft target".
I simply wanted to bring in the passenger's perspective on this issue. Maybe this is not important.
And, if you were in my postion, saw spoilers shoot up with no noticable roll, followed by a very hard wallop, what would you conclude?
The issue is simple. And, sadly, I need to state it again. Heavy landings and obvious rapid deceleration hack off the passengers and give the unfavourable impression of unnceccessary haste.
And Ryanair seem to be an airline in a terribile hurry.
Take a look at this thread:-
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236492
Twelve years of working at the commercial sharp end of the airline business, meeting regular flyers and high spending cutomers, taught me that what are termed "SLF" are far more perceptive than is maybe realised.
I simply brought my (admittedly partial) knowledge of the operational side of the business into my post.
r
Last edited by Midland 331; 24th Feb 2007 at 20:50.
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Have we reached the point where MOL could split it up and create a UK entity to be sold off for a vast sum to some idiot like Sir Alan your fired but my company is not doing very well salt?.................. only to buy it back again for £1 in cahoots with some dragon's den person in 5 years time and make even more money in the process all on the back of thousands of UK pension schemes?
The whole "problem" with Ryanair is that everyone from the CAA to BA have vast sums from their pension schemes riding on their profit.
"Go ahead punk, make my day" said the Irish man to the BA Captain waiting for a pesion!!!
You will only get a hull loss when one is written off. Take the data plate back to Boeing and they will "repair" the aircraft provided you pay the money. Ask Quantas!!
Regards,
DFC
The whole "problem" with Ryanair is that everyone from the CAA to BA have vast sums from their pension schemes riding on their profit.
"Go ahead punk, make my day" said the Irish man to the BA Captain waiting for a pesion!!!
You will only get a hull loss when one is written off. Take the data plate back to Boeing and they will "repair" the aircraft provided you pay the money. Ask Quantas!!
Regards,
DFC
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Relativising criticism is not off subject...
Hi Midland, Hi Paddy,
I guess Midland, that you are very interested in flying (great!) but possibly don't fly privately, so not wishing to state the obvious, steering an aircraft is not like steering a car, in that an input - even an abrupt one - doesn't necessarily cause an abrupt reaction, as felt or seen from the cabin. An incipient roll due to a gust, if caught in a timely manner (and believe me all pilots are very alert at the flare phase of a gust approach) can be cancelled out - for instance by a short sharp opposite control input. This gives you your "Spoiler but no Roll" case.
Paddy. as you know (I am also guessing) it is not black or white - it is a matter of degree. My remarks were intended to help folks in the back, unaware of the actions up front. The ability to let it drift down to taxy speed (Basel, Nice in some cases) using idle reverse doesn't exist in the cases I mentioned above - you have to do something to get the ship to slow down in time - ie. effective amounts of reverse and just before turn off some braking. This is felt by all on board and compared to his/her previous experience by each passenger / cabin crew member. A long landing (which again no one deliberately goes for in LTN) will cause even harder deceleration - or missing the turn off.
By the way, a long hold-off landing is not the best way to "grease it on" - the best way is to keep the thrust on longer and fly it right to the ground - chop thrust about 5 feet up - maybe 2 knots over VThreshold but under control and in the right place.
FC.
I guess Midland, that you are very interested in flying (great!) but possibly don't fly privately, so not wishing to state the obvious, steering an aircraft is not like steering a car, in that an input - even an abrupt one - doesn't necessarily cause an abrupt reaction, as felt or seen from the cabin. An incipient roll due to a gust, if caught in a timely manner (and believe me all pilots are very alert at the flare phase of a gust approach) can be cancelled out - for instance by a short sharp opposite control input. This gives you your "Spoiler but no Roll" case.
Paddy. as you know (I am also guessing) it is not black or white - it is a matter of degree. My remarks were intended to help folks in the back, unaware of the actions up front. The ability to let it drift down to taxy speed (Basel, Nice in some cases) using idle reverse doesn't exist in the cases I mentioned above - you have to do something to get the ship to slow down in time - ie. effective amounts of reverse and just before turn off some braking. This is felt by all on board and compared to his/her previous experience by each passenger / cabin crew member. A long landing (which again no one deliberately goes for in LTN) will cause even harder deceleration - or missing the turn off.
By the way, a long hold-off landing is not the best way to "grease it on" - the best way is to keep the thrust on longer and fly it right to the ground - chop thrust about 5 feet up - maybe 2 knots over VThreshold but under control and in the right place.
FC.
FC,
Thanks for the kind and considered reponse.
Really, my posts in this thread are not about the intricacies of flying, but the perception of passengers to less than gentle handling. They were prefaced by a clear statement that I am a "layman", not a professional aviator. Maybe I should scuttle off to the SLF forum....?
(For the record, I have around two hours in my log book, plus an hour in a full scale 737-200 flight sim. during which time I managed to arrive on 14 at Leeds in low visibility without breaking anything!. Oh, and many years of flying as a staff passenger, sometimes on the jump seat, but always with an interest in how the aircraft was handled. Private aviation seems like a nasty drug habit:- addictive, anti-social, expensive. Hence, I've kept "clean".)
I am familiar with the characteristic lifting of a spoiler during a roll movement. What I saw was far more pronounced, and for a longer duration, followed by a relatively rapid sink. And not a hint of aileron movement. Strange.
Really, I don't want to add much more to this thread. My original, simple, point remains:- this particular chap seemed in a belting hurry, and was a pretty bad advert for his company.
r
Thanks for the kind and considered reponse.
Really, my posts in this thread are not about the intricacies of flying, but the perception of passengers to less than gentle handling. They were prefaced by a clear statement that I am a "layman", not a professional aviator. Maybe I should scuttle off to the SLF forum....?
(For the record, I have around two hours in my log book, plus an hour in a full scale 737-200 flight sim. during which time I managed to arrive on 14 at Leeds in low visibility without breaking anything!. Oh, and many years of flying as a staff passenger, sometimes on the jump seat, but always with an interest in how the aircraft was handled. Private aviation seems like a nasty drug habit:- addictive, anti-social, expensive. Hence, I've kept "clean".)
I am familiar with the characteristic lifting of a spoiler during a roll movement. What I saw was far more pronounced, and for a longer duration, followed by a relatively rapid sink. And not a hint of aileron movement. Strange.
Really, I don't want to add much more to this thread. My original, simple, point remains:- this particular chap seemed in a belting hurry, and was a pretty bad advert for his company.
r
Last edited by Midland 331; 25th Feb 2007 at 18:02.
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Few Cloudy,
Point taken. I see where you're coming from.
Incidentally,
I couldn't agree more lad! The long hold off is a by product of a poor attempt to "grease it on". A proper smooth touchdown won't use up any extra runway. I was referring to the eejits that float for ever trying to get a smooth landing, then have to jump on the brakes to avoid the trees and perimeter fence.
Point taken. I see where you're coming from.
Incidentally,
By the way, a long hold-off landing is not the best way to "grease it on"
Paxing All Over The World
DFC
How so?
I am a simple pax and tax payer (i.e. I pay twice
) and I seriously want to know what you mean by that. My expectation is that employees of a Civil Aviation Authority (of ANY nationality) are civil servants who are paid by the agreed scales for their job.
Tell me that I am hopelessly naïve but - How can it be that their pensions are dependant upon a carrier? Any carrier?? Or have I badly misunderstood your statement?
The whole "problem" with Ryanair is that everyone from the CAA to BA have vast sums from their pension schemes riding on their profit.
I am a simple pax and tax payer (i.e. I pay twice
) and I seriously want to know what you mean by that. My expectation is that employees of a Civil Aviation Authority (of ANY nationality) are civil servants who are paid by the agreed scales for their job.Tell me that I am hopelessly naïve but - How can it be that their pensions are dependant upon a carrier? Any carrier?? Or have I badly misunderstood your statement?
It isn't just the lo-cos who practise the bang it on, slam on the brakes, get off the runway quick technique.....
Try the usual LH-at-FRA technique......... Bang, slam, lurch.
I was always taught to land a large aircraft far more gently and criticised if I didn't - and yes, I am aware of the different characterstics of modern aircraft brakes.
However, I don't the subject being discussed here is the handling of the aircraft after landing, it is more about unstabilised approaches.
Try the usual LH-at-FRA technique......... Bang, slam, lurch.
I was always taught to land a large aircraft far more gently and criticised if I didn't - and yes, I am aware of the different characterstics of modern aircraft brakes.
However, I don't the subject being discussed here is the handling of the aircraft after landing, it is more about unstabilised approaches.
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Danny,
Any chance we could have a professional pilot only forum here please? This is frankly embarrassing and not what you probably envisioned setting up.
Caulfield and RYR 737 NG posts are close to being correct apart from teh statement by one saying 'of course I go for the 1st RET, who doesnt.' I really disagree with that and have made comments to RYR crews who have needlessly subjected me to excessive braking on landing. The problem is that we fly too much and some of us have lost the finesse that we once had. Also forget how scared most pax are. The guys who point it at RET 1 are generally the ones who dont know how or where to find and calculate brake cooling schedules!
PS Yes we do fly cleaner for longer than most other airlines. The policy is F5 to 3.5nms from touchdown. You must still be fully spooled up etc BY 500agl. This is absolutely no problem with 900ft being about the norm. So the spotter in Dublin is right, well done!
Any chance we could have a professional pilot only forum here please? This is frankly embarrassing and not what you probably envisioned setting up.
Caulfield and RYR 737 NG posts are close to being correct apart from teh statement by one saying 'of course I go for the 1st RET, who doesnt.' I really disagree with that and have made comments to RYR crews who have needlessly subjected me to excessive braking on landing. The problem is that we fly too much and some of us have lost the finesse that we once had. Also forget how scared most pax are. The guys who point it at RET 1 are generally the ones who dont know how or where to find and calculate brake cooling schedules!
PS Yes we do fly cleaner for longer than most other airlines. The policy is F5 to 3.5nms from touchdown. You must still be fully spooled up etc BY 500agl. This is absolutely no problem with 900ft being about the norm. So the spotter in Dublin is right, well done!
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With regards to the flight crew being able to feel the bump that the pax feel, please remember the percussion effects. The pax at CofG may only feel downforces, whereas you at the front may feel the mix of the increasing nose up pitch as well as the sink. Effectively, you get rotation, and they get thump, as the aircraft rotates around the nose. Well, not exactly, but that is all I can think to express it.
Combine that with tail wag on the 738 down the back and it can get exciting for at least half the pax.
My main concern is over the IAA reviews of Ryanair. I fly in Irish registered aircraft, on lease, all over the world. Would somebody like to tell me why FAA based processes are allowed on board if the aircraft is meant to be flown in an Irish manner? Pick up a pax safety card on a Colombian MD80 to see what I mean.
You will find that the time saving that you are talking about is not just from the fly faster brigade, but the conversion of the published IFR approach, including flying overhead the beacon on the aerodrome, out and back to land, as opposed to the visual positioning and dive for landing.
The reason for stopping hard in the Ryanair Southwest model is the cost per minute of the airframe. It is cheaper to change the brakes more often than it is to keep the xxx-by-the-hour maintenance charges rolling along. So, stop hard, get off the runway and get to the gate. Brakes on and stop the clock.
Do not forget how much extra energy you carry when you get a runway change from ATC and you were expecting to fly over the aerodrome and then procedure turn, as opposed to the now straight-in. Say 25 nautical miles shorter to run. Oh, and for environmental reasons, you now have a 5 knot tailwind. No time to brief... no time to set up the FMS...
Still, you can do a lot of damage to a 738 on an overrun before it is written off by the insurance company.
Combine that with tail wag on the 738 down the back and it can get exciting for at least half the pax.
My main concern is over the IAA reviews of Ryanair. I fly in Irish registered aircraft, on lease, all over the world. Would somebody like to tell me why FAA based processes are allowed on board if the aircraft is meant to be flown in an Irish manner? Pick up a pax safety card on a Colombian MD80 to see what I mean.
You will find that the time saving that you are talking about is not just from the fly faster brigade, but the conversion of the published IFR approach, including flying overhead the beacon on the aerodrome, out and back to land, as opposed to the visual positioning and dive for landing.
The reason for stopping hard in the Ryanair Southwest model is the cost per minute of the airframe. It is cheaper to change the brakes more often than it is to keep the xxx-by-the-hour maintenance charges rolling along. So, stop hard, get off the runway and get to the gate. Brakes on and stop the clock.
Do not forget how much extra energy you carry when you get a runway change from ATC and you were expecting to fly over the aerodrome and then procedure turn, as opposed to the now straight-in. Say 25 nautical miles shorter to run. Oh, and for environmental reasons, you now have a 5 knot tailwind. No time to brief... no time to set up the FMS...
Still, you can do a lot of damage to a 738 on an overrun before it is written off by the insurance company.
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DI,
You are right about the 'back of the plane effect' it is quite pronounced. We are flying 20 flights per week, and that has been over a dozen years in my case and over 20 years in some of the Dublin based pilots case. You do loose sensitivity in your own backside as all the little muscles anticipate g loading after this amount of flying. I constantly tell myself to 'feel' more and never forget the SLF are normally quite a scared bunch!
But you are wrong with your assessment of RYR and SWA braking policy. Both airlines have had the same policy for several years now, and they changed together after the Midway accident last year. Minimum autobrake setting is 2 now on all landings. Also the aircraft are scehduled for 8 flights per day and they get done whether you are 30 seconds late inbound or 1 hour late so each minute makes no difference. RYR own/lease purchase their a/c so flight time makes no odds again. And as for the brakes, they come from the engineers budget not FLT Ops! They both present their own cases to O'Leary.
Hope this helps.
You are right about the 'back of the plane effect' it is quite pronounced. We are flying 20 flights per week, and that has been over a dozen years in my case and over 20 years in some of the Dublin based pilots case. You do loose sensitivity in your own backside as all the little muscles anticipate g loading after this amount of flying. I constantly tell myself to 'feel' more and never forget the SLF are normally quite a scared bunch!
But you are wrong with your assessment of RYR and SWA braking policy. Both airlines have had the same policy for several years now, and they changed together after the Midway accident last year. Minimum autobrake setting is 2 now on all landings. Also the aircraft are scehduled for 8 flights per day and they get done whether you are 30 seconds late inbound or 1 hour late so each minute makes no difference. RYR own/lease purchase their a/c so flight time makes no odds again. And as for the brakes, they come from the engineers budget not FLT Ops! They both present their own cases to O'Leary.
Hope this helps.
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Perhaps if some of you were able to differentiate between approaches and landings you wouldn't have some of the more nonsensical distractions that keep appearing here, from being deleted.
Sadly, far too many posters, yet again, keep trying to impress the rest of us with their lack of qualification when it comes to discussing the subject matter. You are either someone with experience of the topic and state with qualification your reasons for mentioning something or else you do not have experience and should limit your your posting to questions or clarification.
It is far too easy for many of us to spot the pretenders or wannabes who would like us to believe that they are knowledgeable. It's bad enough trying to keep the debates civil between some of the more easily upset but experienced pilots on here without having the pretenders get their blood pressure up with waffle and yukspeak that just shouts to the rest of us "dipstick alert"!!!!
If a post is deleted, it is because you don't have editorial control. You may not like it but it keeps the majority on here sane!
Sadly, far too many posters, yet again, keep trying to impress the rest of us with their lack of qualification when it comes to discussing the subject matter. You are either someone with experience of the topic and state with qualification your reasons for mentioning something or else you do not have experience and should limit your your posting to questions or clarification.
It is far too easy for many of us to spot the pretenders or wannabes who would like us to believe that they are knowledgeable. It's bad enough trying to keep the debates civil between some of the more easily upset but experienced pilots on here without having the pretenders get their blood pressure up with waffle and yukspeak that just shouts to the rest of us "dipstick alert"!!!!
If a post is deleted, it is because you don't have editorial control. You may not like it but it keeps the majority on here sane!
