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Old 1st Jan 2007, 12:56   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: asia
Posts: 10
ONUR AIR AGAIN and AGAIN

Hey everybody,happy new year!!
The turkey based charter company Onur Air took off this morning from Istanbul airport with an open cargo door.Some bags falled down from the ac during the take off roll.Some bags falled into the sea right after take of.Aircraft was an MD 88 with approximate pax nr of 130.The flight was sheduled from istanbul to Izmir.The said sight of this incident is that the pilots didn`t noticed this serious problem until an aircraft which was on the short final reported this incredibal incident to the tower.THE BRAVE WELL TRAINED CREW OF ONUR AIR RETURNED BACK TO THE FIELD AND LANDED AGAIN.
http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11469

GOOD LUCK FLYING ONUR AIR.

YES , ONUR AIR AGAIN AND AGAIN
by the way the tickets are very cheap.
swing over is offline   Reply
Old 4th Jan 2007, 19:50   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: around.....
Posts: 75
What you pay, is what you get!
OXOGEKAS340 is offline   Reply
Old 4th Jan 2007, 22:42   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Serbia
Age: 44
Posts: 44
The incident was reported slightly different:

04 JAN 2007 Onur Air MD-88 suffers in-flight opening of cargo door
On January 1 the cargo door of an MD-88 operated by Onur Air opened during takeoff. The aircraft lost pressure while climbing through an altitude of 6000 feet. The crew decided to return to Istanbul. Upon touchdown the cargo door sprang open, causing luggage to fall onto the runway. (Flight International)


http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1748
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 13:37   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: asia
Posts: 10
lets stay with the facts

The link you gave us JOVICA is the version of the Onur Air management,who tries to manipulate the case.
Fact is the Cargo door became open.How? If under pressure or without pressurization, a cargo door which is securely lockked will not open.Or?Normaly the bagages in the cargo compartment must be secured with nets or safty belts.So, how did they falled down.And please tell us how much pressure should an airplane produce passing only 6000 ft altitude.I think not so much that it will open a properly closed cargo door.Another question how about door sensors,are they not installed on a MD aircraft?
So please lets stay here with the facts.
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 14:32   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: asia
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the facts continue

http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11583

Ad this link, you can see that Onur Air paid 4500 YTL remuneration to the lost bags.
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Old 5th Jan 2007, 14:40   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: asia
Posts: 10
And now brand new NEWS in Turkey/Onur Air skid of Runway

http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11582

today at 14:44 local time an Onur Air flight did skid of the runway after landing in Erzurum.

As I siad Onur Air again and again
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 05:31   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 4
onur air backlashes!

Dear Swing over,
I am really wondering what did onur air do to you so you are so full of anger and revenge against this company? I dont see anyone else writing here other than you on this matters. Ohh, I almost forgot to ask you about your dear friend "Captain flown all types in all continents". Hope he got a good job in Berlin airport with taxi cab company after jumping off the Onur A320 with full of pax on the taxiway at 40 deg C.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 08:07   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: asia
Posts: 10
onur air backflashes with incidents

Dear super fighter pilot filo 181. .Don`t put the facts under a different light.It is Onur Air who is in the news with incidents.You guys may control the turkish media and turkish-CAA with spending money,but this forum you cannot manipulate.This is the wrong platform for it.
meanwhile about 4000 people visited this page.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 08:22   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 48
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quote:
The said sight of this incident is that the pilots didn`t noticed this serious problem until an aircraft which was on the short final reported this incredibal incident to the tower.THE BRAVE WELL TRAINED CREW OF ONUR AIR RETURNED BACK TO THE FIELD AND LANDED AGAIN.

well, not being familiar with the MD88 I suppose there is a micro switch connected to a caution light...or does the 88 have a "bags are falling out of the belly" Master Warning light?

I find nothing wrong with continuing at least to evaluate the problem and probably burn fuel to max landing... IF someone would tell me: your baggage door just opened I´d land ASAP.

So what exactly did the crew wrong in your opinion? What is your source of information regarding the fact that the crew didn´t notice a problem?
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 08:30   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 148
Help me here. The MD80 series has inward opening cargo doors. So 'pressure' closes them. So, once closed how do they open and how do bags fall out. This is a simple 'mechanics' question seeking a technical answer.
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 08:49   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: asia
Posts: 10
My source is Airporthaber.com

The most favour aviation news web-page in Turkey is reporting these incidents and not me.So what is wrong if other avaiation people around the world gets some news whats going on here.

use the link
http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=11583
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Old 6th Jan 2007, 14:24   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Serbia
Age: 44
Posts: 44
swing over,
The point is not in "what's going on" but in "why's going on". Also, by simply putting the blame on the manegement or the "company" (whatever that stands for) won't prevent such a incident from happening again. Finally, being extatic for somebody else's mistake, man, you have to start working on yourself ASAP.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 00:35   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 4
onur air backlashes!

dear mr swing over,
Why are you so up to turksih media reports translations from such a newspapers has no reputable ground other than gossip columns for cabin crews!!!. Did anybody assign you to do so? you got nothing else to do.??You got no paper planes to fly...If you are so eagerly to translate such flight safety reports from gossip papers why dont you do some from indonesia, china, spain, brazil, etc.so you can keep the whole aviation world in order!!
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 12:42   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NAT TRACK FOX
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Post

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=573658

Indeed lucky that no luggage were sucked by the engine

Please, before accusing and blaming anybody wait for the official report.

Happy Trails
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 18:15   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 4
attitude

( Why are you so up to turksih media reports translations from such a newspapers has no reputable ground other than gossip columns for cabin crews!!!. )

Do we have here someone who discriminates cabin crew members in a way?Do you think you are someone better?Hey Mr 181.filo I think you have an attitute problem.

thanks for the picture diablo!
everything is more clear now.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 19:55   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Way up north
Posts: 126
“04 JAN 2007 Onur Air MD-88 suffers in-flight opening of cargo door
On January 1 the cargo door of an MD-88 operated by Onur Air opened during takeoff. The aircraft lost pressure while climbing through an altitude of 6000 feet. The crew decided to return to Istanbul. Upon touchdown the cargo door sprang open, causing luggage to fall onto the runway. (Flight International)”


Noticing the absence of MD-80 pilots know-how here… A bit wary about sticking my neck out, but decided to join the lowtimer-groupies (just too curious about the following):

Hard to believe that a PROPERLY LATCHED cargo door will open during takeoff.

IF UNLATCHED, there obviously should have been a WARNING LIGHT in the flightdeck, at latest detected when pilots performed the startup checklist.

Why would mentioned door open inwards upon decompression at low-level? Dunno if they’re spring-loaded, but reckon it takes the muscle of a baggage-handler to push them up to locked position… Airflow along fuselage will suck an outward opening door a few inches out, but to my knowledge (stand corrected) it will not push an inward opening door in – but rather hold it in place.

Picture linked by Diabolo shows the (alleged?) a/c in landing configuration (flaps 25’ish and low angle of attack). Door is apparently open, but I cannot detect to what extent.

The above summary by reliable Flight International, states that the cargo door sprang open upon touchdown and bags fell onto RWY. That I can believe, if the landing was hard enough. – So, what was that big emergency again???

“swing over” claims that FI editors are manipulated by airline managements. That is a fairly tall order, and I’d prefer more hard evidence to buy his point of view.

“Diabolo”, worrying that bags could’ve got into the engines, reveals that he is not a pilot… The door is below the engines, and gravity works even at 140 kts IAS!

This thread is cluttered by too many opinions and not enough facts. Sigh.
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Old 7th Jan 2007, 21:26   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 229
The linked photo.....HHMMM
I sniff the same rat as Nardi Riviera

The sun is somewhere astern the aircraft, look at the shadows from engine nacelles (falling over the 'open' bay) and also on the side strake above the nosewheel. Why are there almost completely black shadows on the underwing surfaces and in the engine intakes, yet the enclosed cargo bay is bathed in more light than those areas, that are patently "out in the open" so to speak ? Logic path, if the natural ambient light was bright enough to illuminate inside the bay, why did it not light the underside of the flaps or intake ?

All the other photos of TC-ONP (airliner.net etc) has it's pet name ESRA below the cockpit, even as recently as Aug and Oct 06. When did they paint it out ?

Who votes for a PhotoShop effort ?

I've wasted enough drinking time, answers on a postcard to your MEP or retired PhotInt operative.

Yours, Sceptically, (but mature enough to be proved wrong)
PP
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Old 8th Jan 2007, 08:35   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 344
no netting?

cargo doors that open inwards can be blocked be luggage that has moved during the flight. thats why there usually is netting to keep the movement area of the door free. so even if you take off with an open door, u shouldn't loose the load...
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Old 8th Jan 2007, 14:38   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NAT TRACK FOX
Posts: 160
“Diabolo”, worrying that bags could’ve got into the engines, reveals that he is not a pilot… The door is below the engines, and gravity works even at 140 kts IAS!

Dear Nardi Riviera or shall I call Mr. Isaac Newton ??

As you are probably a Profesional Pilot let me please ask you those questions,
Could you please clearly explain to use ?
Was the Engine not running ?? at that stage what was the power setting and N1 or EPR value of that ENG do you know ? You are stating an indicated speed of 140Kts, so what is the relation ? Does the engines can not such FOD at that speed ? Do you know what is the exact distance between that door and that ENG air intake lips and nacelle ?

Guessing what other might do is realy not your favorite and best skills.
So please in your future post just restrict your self of such comments.

Take care and Fly Safe

Bye.
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Old 8th Jan 2007, 19:31   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Way up north
Posts: 126
Final approach speed for this type of a/c is about 130-140 kts. Just before touchdown the power input is normally relatively low. A bag INSIDE the hold would not be sucked into the engine. At full blast a jet engine will suck in anything close (tables available, re distances etc). Bags fell onto the runway upon landing, which is quite likely considering how the DC-9/MD-80 touches down.

Relax. And give my regards to mr. Newton when you get through to him.

Nobody here will apparently answer my questions… Still curious.
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