Help For A Newbie

[Roughrotor]

Hi there, I have just passed my training in an R44 and I am now looking to buy my own for private use. Based upon the hours I will likely fly (40-50) I should really hire but due to my remote location that isn't practical and anyway I like the idea of having as and when I want it. I believe I will have to service it at 6 months and then at 12 despite the low hours and was wondering if there was any advantage as a private user to put it on any other register that would simplify the service requirements. Now before everybody jumps down my throat, I want to be safe and legal, I just wondered if there are any advantages going for a different registration. Finally should I remain on the G reg and assuming no issues at the service points what would you expect me to pay in a 12 month period for a 6 month then annual with all the appropriate paperwork costs. I have asked around and have got some varied answers so any help would be great. I don't want to be the subject of Robinson bashing, I love the machine and it is my preferred choice. I learned on the 44 and love it. I'd appreciate any constructive help and advice. I've came from the micro-lite background where I could do most of the service work myself so please help. Thanks

[CRAN]

Hi Roughrotor,

IMHO the R44 is by far the most sensible machine for a private owner and irrespective of hours flown, if you can afford it there is a lot to be said for keeping it for yourself.

You don't see many R44s on anything other than the G reg in the UK, so I guess there is not much to be gained. A new or newly overhaul machine, kept in a hangar won't cause you much trouble.

Given that you'll be burning through £30k ish in depreciation insurance and fuel I wouldn't worry about the cost of a minimal number of scheduled inspections.

Have you seen these guys?

http://www.hjshelicopters.co.uk/imag...20contract.pdf

Good luck and enjoy the machine.

CRAN

[helicopter-redeye]

Despite the relatively low advertised costs the actual ones also attract other minor checks and changes (mag checks, transponder check, ADs, battery capacity, etc). Worth checking and budgeting for.

Also if kept near the sea beware salt corrosion. And for Scotland, lack of places to buy Avgas...

[OvertHawk]

Good Luck

Don't even think about it unless you can keep it inside. Scotland is not the place for helicopters to live outside for more than a couple of nights at a time (especially if they're not doing a lot of flying)

OH

[Hughes500]

A few tips from someone who has signed the cheques for 30 years

1. Have the machine surveyed properly
2. Keep it in a hangar otherwise the bills will make your eyes water
3. Keep fuel on site ( will save a fortune in the long run let alone convenience
4. Make sure your maintenance company will travel to you for repairs etc etc

Be careful about the running costs of a Robinson if only flying 50 hours a year. You will run out of calendar way before hours which equals expensive flying.
I am not bashing a Robbie but you might be better off with a 206, it will hold its value better and there is no 12 year rebuild ( except TT straps every 3 ) Also easier to store fuel at home for it

[Roughrotor]

Thanks for all the comments so far. I'd love to buy a 206 but I'm afraid my budget wont go that far and with regard to the 12 years, I plan on buying a second hand one with hopefully 5/6 years and 300 hours so hopefully that will work for me. Take on board your point re keeping it outside, which wasn't going to be my intention and yes fuel on site is a must, pity its avgas! Thanks CRAN for the HJS price list and any other comments would be most welcome. Thanks.

[Thomas coupling]

Roughrotor, why don't you do the maths?

Private ownership for 40-50hrs/annum Vs rented out each time you need it for the same time period?

I think to chop to a foreign registration - you need to be a foreign national from that country and have a license too (I stand to be corrected).

[Camp Freddie]

There seem to be a quite a few privately owned gazelles around in the UK on HA (Hungarian) and YU (Serbian) registrations so I guessing that you don’t need to be Hungarian or Serbian, I imagine they are also on those registrations for a reason.

[Thomas coupling]

The main reason for foreign reg is the easements for maintenance I believe.
However I understand they cannot remain on foreign plates for long.

[Camp Freddie]

However I understand they cannot remain on foreign plates for long.

that detail doesn’t seem to have reached the owners yet 😜

[Thomas coupling]

"...You can only fly in UK airspace under one of these exemptions for a maximum of 28 consecutive days...."

[chopjock]

"...You can only fly in UK airspace under one of these exemptions for a maximum of 28 consecutive days...."

So fly 27 consecutive days, miss a day then start again...

[nigelh]

For the N you have it registered through a US company . There is no limit on time it can spend here . My 109 went from G to N about 7 years ago . I also believe you can fly both N and G reg over here so the biggest benefit is not having to have any ratings . For instance I have no twin rating so would have to do a full course including up to 10 hrs flying to get it on my EASA licence . I also have the benefit of being able to borrow any helicopter...206 , 350, Gazelle, Bolkow etc ( I think apart from Robinson ... which I don't want to fly ) without having to get a rating .
Very civilised !! I can't think of any downside....

[Two's in]

I would be surprised if renting came out anywhere close to ownership costs for 40-50 hours a year. Yes, you won't always have the convenience of flying on a whim, but good planning and met appreciation can alleviate some of that nuisance.

Say a commercially owned R44 is operated for 200 hours a year, if you rented it for 50 of those hours, you would only pick up 25% of the ownership overhead costs (hangarage, long term maintenance etc) in addition to the direct operating costs. If you own it you are picking up everything, and as other point out, you will still get whacked on calendar maintenance ops with a low flying rate.

You should get some professional help from someone in the operating business and do a full cost/benefit analysis if it's about money. If it's about saying you own a helicopter, then you should probably buy one.

[krypton_john]

Originally Posted by Hughes500

A few tips from someone who has signed the cheques for 30 years

...

Be careful about the running costs of a Robinson if only flying 50 hours a year. You will run out of calendar way before hours which equals expensive flying.

... although that can be mitigated if you can find a machine with high hours against low years e.g. an 1800h machine with 8 years to run.

[Helisweet]

Being a rich guy like you is a pity killing your self that way.

[FLY 7]

My rough rule of thumb is that private ownership becomes viable at closer to 100+ hrs pa - which I also think should be a good annual target for newly qualified PPLs, to really learn, improve and stay current. It's only 8hrs a month,

[Hughes500]

Do you need an R44 ? how often will you carry 4 people ? Something like a 300C or Enstrom 280 lot cheaper to buy and run with no calendar items other than annual ?