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Old 16th Mar 2017, 06:08   #21 (permalink)
 
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Well that's pretty conclusive.
How terrible.
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 09:18   #22 (permalink)

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To learn from this ...

... I'm not sure if it is something generally taught or even talked about, but something I was told very early on; always cross wires at a pylon.

Of course in this incident they may not have seen the power lines or pylons. In the vid linked to below, from 1:00 the Director of Firemen tells us that it was the third time they had flown that route.
Four dead in helicopter crash near Mt. Signal - KYMA
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 12:02   #23 (permalink)
 
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... I'm not sure if it is something generally taught or even talked about, but something I was told very early on; always cross wires at a pylon.
That´s what my FI taught to me also.


But there may be situations or sites when/where you cannot stick to this general rule...


Thracian
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 12:41   #24 (permalink)
 
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Then in those cases you should keep well away from the wires. In this case the weather seemed fine and there seems no reason to descend into the wires. Very sad.
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 13:36   #25 (permalink)
 
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Can't always do that, Crab - some jobs involve being close to other, lower powerlines then crossing taller ones.

Our rule is to identify the limit of exploitation toward the higher line, stop, climb and cross the higher lines when in level or climbing flight (not always at a pylon, but with both crew confirming we're above the highest point of the 'threat' line) then when tail confirmed clear descend and resume work on the lower powerline.
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 16:38   #26 (permalink)
 
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Having done some flying in similar environment I guess they weren't aware of the wires and - because they were looking out of (not like the Video into!!) the blue sky they didn't see the wires over the brown ground. Sad accident😳
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 17:40   #27 (permalink)
 
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As an ag pilot I deal with wires all the time. About 95% of the fields that I spray have wires either running through them, or are bordered on one or more sides by them.
Although people don't believe it, I have found that it is incredibly easy to simply 'forget' that the wires are there, even though I have crossed them countless times whilst spraying a field. When they blend in with the background it makes it even harder to deal with. The fact that they were on their third run leads me to believe that they may have simply forgot the wires were there, or they were looking at the main wires and forgot about the static line, as I have done on many occasions.

There but for grace of God go I.......a very sobering accident as we are getting ready to start our season in a week or so.
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 19:04   #28 (permalink)
 
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Thud - very valid if your job is to work the power lines but these guys were on the way back from a rescue in what looks like good weather - they should have just given the wires a wide berth or crossed them at a pylon - basics really.
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Old 16th Mar 2017, 19:39   #29 (permalink)
 
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Or maybe cruised at a height that would allow them to chill out. MSA on a good VFR day is a stress free decision.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 00:24   #30 (permalink)
 
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not a whole lot more that could have been done after the initial tangle with the wire.
Are you a pilot? Throttle off to stop the yaw, collective down and autorotate to the ground. Like Moffatt did in Hong Kong harbor with the 139. Why you train emergencies.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 01:47   #31 (permalink)
 
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Malabo, Yes I am a pilot with almost 5,000 hours, with a vast majority in very low altitude flight profiles/ wire environments. If you watch the video I linked, it is clear that after the ground wire was severed by the tail rotor, it then wrapped around TRGB, and caused the loss of the tail rotor assembly. The cable then remained attached to the tailboom. once the aircraft began to spin it caused the main rotor and cable to entangle which caused the failure of the main rotor and loss of control. after getting the tail wrapped, its my personal opinion that recovery may have been difficult or impossible. obviously keep fighting till the end, but unfortunately this may have unavoidable after contact and entanglement.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 02:24   #32 (permalink)
 
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Like Moffatt did in Hong Kong harbo
Off thread. Where is young Richard these days malabo?
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 03:47   #33 (permalink)
 
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Off thread. Where is young Richard these days malabo?
Brunei Shell
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 05:46   #34 (permalink)
 
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Malabo.....are you a pilot. The procedure you describe would be somewhat ineffective at low speed a few hundred feet from the ground which where they were when the TR depart eventually departed.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 13:27   #35 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by malabo View Post
Are you a pilot? Throttle off to stop the yaw, collective down and autorotate to the ground. Like Moffatt did in Hong Kong harbor with the 139. Why you train emergencies.
Have you forgotten the drastic C of G change when the T/R and GB departed the ship? He had a lot more to worry about than simple yaw!
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 15:35   #36 (permalink)
 
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When the gearbox and tail rotor depart the CofG shift will cause the nose to drop. The automatic reaction of the pilot is to pull back on the cyclic to correct. The lowers the rear of the rotor disc into the canted up tailboom and general destruction follows.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 22:08   #37 (permalink)
 
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Sorry M ... in spite of the advice offered by many Flight Manuals, establishing a simple autorotation following T/R failure WILL NOT produce a safe touch down. Yes ... a first vital action is to get rid of the cause of the yaw - the engine - but if no further action is taken the airframe commences a yaw in the direction of the main blades and it doesn't matter much if you strike the ground spinning left or right, the impact will hurt. Unhappily or happily, I've experienced three T/R failures and managed a non-damaging run-on landing on each occasion ... an experience that at least taught me something. For a non-damaging landing on the more popular types, a combination of speed, yaw angle and power needs to be used, an emergency exercise I teach to my new pilots when asked. Safe flying to all please. DRK.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 23:34   #38 (permalink)
 
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I have to agree with D.Kenyon, mind you the situation was different from the video, didn't loose anything but simply stop working. My reaction was to pick up speed right away, i had speed to start with, just got some more and the aircraft straightened itsel or just about and went back to the airport for a successful running landing. Lucky me it was winter and the airstrip was gravel and hard pack snow. Took a while before stopping but it did before the ditch.
Aircraft was a FH1100.

JD
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