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Old 11th Jan 2017, 18:06   #1 (permalink)
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IFR GNSS Approaches with Vertical Guidance

Good time of day to everyone!

I am a fixed wing guy myself so I don't have that much in-depth knowledge on this subject.

My question here is has anyone seen anywhere in the World an IFR GNSS Appoach to a heliport or helipad that provided you with vertical guidance as well to a DH or DA? (Like an ILS).

As many of you know, there are plenty of SBAS (WAAS) LPV Approaches in the United States alone with 200-foot minumums, so pretty much CAT I ILS, however I haven't seen a single published approach of this kind for a heliport or helipad. Even in some FAA documents it mentions that WAAS LPV Approaches are permitted for Helicopters to a Point in Space, but it also mentions that as of 2013 no such approaches excist in practice.

So would be greatful if anyone would point to me to SBAS or GBAS approacheswith vertical guidance to a heliport or helipad anywhere in the World.
Thanks!
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Old 11th Jan 2017, 18:11   #2 (permalink)
 
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here you go (sorry on my phone so can't extract the specific pages)
http://www.mincom.gov.bn/dca/AIC/AIP%20Supplements/AIP%20SUPPLEMENT%2004%202012.pdf
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Old 11th Jan 2017, 21:16   #3 (permalink)
 
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Australian point in space approaches

Not sure it this is what you are looking for . Australia has had point in space approaches for EMS operations for about 15 years. The Lithgow approach goes to the bottom of a valley then you follow the road around the corner to the pad. Check the MDA and the pad elevation.

Link to Lithgow hospital

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...LGGN02-131.pdf

Link to Gosford Hospital

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...GSGN01-146.pdf

Last edited by catseye; 11th Jan 2017 at 21:20. Reason: typo and MDA comment
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Old 11th Jan 2017, 21:30   #4 (permalink)
 
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I guess the key question was "to a DA/DH".
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Old 11th Jan 2017, 22:13   #5 (permalink)
 
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Yep, Airbus Helicopters (EDPR) in Germany has one...(LPV approach)
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Old 12th Jan 2017, 16:47   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Not sure it this is what you are looking for . Australia has had point in space approaches for EMS operations for about 15 years. The Lithgow approach goes to the bottom of a valley then you follow the road around the corner to the pad. Check the MDA and the pad elevation.

Link to Lithgow hospital

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...LGGN02-131.pdf

Link to Gosford Hospital

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...GSGN01-146.pdf
Thanks!

Although I was looking for LPV-type approaches with pretty low minimums.

Quote:
Yep, Airbus Helicopters (EDPR) in Germany has one...(LPV approach)
Quote:
here you go (sorry on my phone so can't extract the specific pages)
http://www.mincom.gov.bn/dca/AIC/AIP...004%202012.pdf
And I found the specific chart for the Eurocopter facility - https://fly.rocketroute.com/plates/a...8783&icao=EDPR

Still I am very surprised that these types of approaches aren't that common with helicopters. I mean there are not that many costs associated with setting up such an approach. There is no insanely expensive equipment to install on the field.

There are plenty of such approaches to many god-forsaken airfields in the middle of nowhere for aeroplanes, anyone have an idea why it isn't so popular with you guys?
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Old 12th Jan 2017, 18:22   #7 (permalink)
 
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Italian HEMS operator creates SBAS approach procedure for H24 operations
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Old 12th Jan 2017, 21:50   #8 (permalink)
 
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I guess, cause not many operators (except oil and gas) operate IFR... And although probably cheaper than an ILS system I bet still significant costs are involved....
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 11:41   #9 (permalink)
 
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Would be interesting to know what their weather minima will be for this route/approach and what their 'required visual references' will be to convert to a VFR/NVD approach.

Personally I would want better than RNP of 0.3nm in such a congested area.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 14:15   #10 (permalink)
 
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EGHG , Yeovil ( Leonardo Helicopters that used to be Agusta Westland) will have up running next month. EGTE (Exeter) and EGJA Alderney have one.
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 20:15   #11 (permalink)
 
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Unless you are in tight mountainous terrain, or surrounded by high obstacles there is only marginally lower DH/DA going from LNAV to LPV, typically around 50'. And that extra 50' is going to cost you WAAS, which balloons up in cost for your captive OEM FMS systems like you have in the AW139. Also helicopters, especially with newer automation, tolerate the "dreaded" airplane chop and drop profiles pretty well, and in fact provide an advantage for a longer period of time to transition to visual.

And then there is the whole "what lighting do you have at the bottom" question. Standard for an ILS runway, but still in a regulatory quagmire for a helipad.

Why not so many helicopter LPV? Think of it as a return on investment - not a lot of return for the extra investment.
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 13:10   #12 (permalink)
 
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Pity that Transport Canada is mandating, or should I say, encouraging use of SCDA approaches for helicopters now, just painting a fixed wing issue with broad strokes.
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