N or G reg?
Thread Starter
N or G Reg?
Importing a helicopter from abroad and would like to know your views on whether I should put it on the N or G register. Private pilot doing about 70 hours per year. Pro's and cons of both would be helpful. Thanks!
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depends upon the type really. A lot of American helicopters do not require a 50hr inspection under FAA rules but do have a 6 monthly so flying only 70 hours a year might not make a huge difference.
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I am not up to speed with the latest status BUT EASA was planning to try and outlaw, or at least make much more difficult, EU-based operation of non-EU aircraft within the EU.
Just be careful and do some homework, if you do plan to go N-reg
Just be careful and do some homework, if you do plan to go N-reg
This may be a bodis ripper -
And additionally the "re-registration and renewal" policy now in force will not help!
Eligibility
An aircraft is eligible for U.S. Registration if it is not registered in another country and it is owned by:
a U.S. citizen as defined in 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 47.2.
a Resident Alien (foreign individual lawfully admitted for permanent U.S. residence
a U.S. governmental unit or subdivision
a non-citizen corporation lawfully organized and doing business under the laws of the U.S. or one of the States as long as the aircraft is based and primarily used in the U.S. (60% of all flight hours must be from flights starting and ending within the U.S.)
An aircraft may be registered only by and in the legal name of its owner.
An aircraft is eligible for U.S. Registration if it is not registered in another country and it is owned by:
a U.S. citizen as defined in 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 47.2.
a Resident Alien (foreign individual lawfully admitted for permanent U.S. residence
a U.S. governmental unit or subdivision
a non-citizen corporation lawfully organized and doing business under the laws of the U.S. or one of the States as long as the aircraft is based and primarily used in the U.S. (60% of all flight hours must be from flights starting and ending within the U.S.)
An aircraft may be registered only by and in the legal name of its owner.
I have just moved a helicopter to G after 3 years (in the UK) on the N. The principal ongoing difference is in maintenance regimes: as someone said above, no 50 hr on the N, but 3 monthly corrosion inspections required instead (on my machine). And of course you need to pay someone to run your trust company: I used Heritage in Guernsey and it cost c£1k pa, though there are cheaper ones out there. But no 6% IPT on your insurance.
And of course if you fly abroad, this means in reality that you need an FAA licence, easiest is a piggyback 61.75 certificate, but you still need to do a biennial flight review, not sure if there are qualified FAA examiners for B47s this side of the pond?
The biggest issue for me was the cost of moving and the fitted items that had to come out. My helo had vacuum DI and AH: had to come out and be replaced with electric. It had a cockpit shelf in the passenger side: again, not an approved mod so had to come out. Perfectly serviceable engine hoses had to be replaced etc etc. And making sure the paperwork is in order involved hours of mechanics time etc etc. And of course - the flight test. Now that the CAA have lost the opportunity to test G-reg machines every two years, anything coming in from the USA is rigorously tested to make sure it flies the numbers as well today, as when it left the factory. You can find a qualified pilot to perform these tests (I am now for a B206), but if not a man from the CAA will come along. For me, it was a never ending list of extra costs.
It cost me c10% of the value of the aircraft, to move from N to G.
My advice? Stick with N for as long as you are able, so long as you are happy to fly yourself or with mates flying - ie no commercial work.
Some useful stuff on N-reg ownership here (albeit from a plank perspective): Aviation
And of course if you fly abroad, this means in reality that you need an FAA licence, easiest is a piggyback 61.75 certificate, but you still need to do a biennial flight review, not sure if there are qualified FAA examiners for B47s this side of the pond?
The biggest issue for me was the cost of moving and the fitted items that had to come out. My helo had vacuum DI and AH: had to come out and be replaced with electric. It had a cockpit shelf in the passenger side: again, not an approved mod so had to come out. Perfectly serviceable engine hoses had to be replaced etc etc. And making sure the paperwork is in order involved hours of mechanics time etc etc. And of course - the flight test. Now that the CAA have lost the opportunity to test G-reg machines every two years, anything coming in from the USA is rigorously tested to make sure it flies the numbers as well today, as when it left the factory. You can find a qualified pilot to perform these tests (I am now for a B206), but if not a man from the CAA will come along. For me, it was a never ending list of extra costs.
It cost me c10% of the value of the aircraft, to move from N to G.
My advice? Stick with N for as long as you are able, so long as you are happy to fly yourself or with mates flying - ie no commercial work.
Some useful stuff on N-reg ownership here (albeit from a plank perspective): Aviation
you still need to do a biennial flight review, not sure if there are qualified FAA examiners for B47s this side of the pond?
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Instructors do BFR not examiners but if you needed one there is a examiner FAA in the uk anyway there are quite a few instructors. one FAA instructor I know taught 2 two faa licences on a bell 47
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N or G reg?
hi just throwing this question out .is it more cost effective to have a private helicopter on the n reg than the g from a maintainance point of view ..this is an 1970s machine .it will need parts and maintainance as time passes .we fly about 50 60 hrs per yr .parts can be picked up in the us and fitted by an a .p under the n reg .under eu its all new parts from the factory only .as one example ..totally new to all this .opinions please
Aircraft Registry
Eligibility
An aircraft is eligible for U.S. Registration if it is not registered in another country and it is owned by:
An individual who is a United States citizen,
A partnership each of whose partners is an individual who is a U.S. citizen,
A corporation or association:
organized under the laws of the U.S. or a State, the District of Columbia, or a U.S. territory or possession,
of which the president and at least two-thirds of the board of directors and other managing officers are U.S citizens, and
in which at least 75% of the voting interest is owned or controlled by persons that are U.S. citizens,
An individual citizen of a foreign country lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the U.S.,
A U.S. governmental unit or subdivision
A non-U.S. citizen corporation organized and doing business under the laws of the U.S. or one of the States as long as the aircraft is based and primarily used in the U.S. (60% of all flight hours must be from flights starting and ending within the U.S.)
Eligibility
An aircraft is eligible for U.S. Registration if it is not registered in another country and it is owned by:
An individual who is a United States citizen,
A partnership each of whose partners is an individual who is a U.S. citizen,
A corporation or association:
organized under the laws of the U.S. or a State, the District of Columbia, or a U.S. territory or possession,
of which the president and at least two-thirds of the board of directors and other managing officers are U.S citizens, and
in which at least 75% of the voting interest is owned or controlled by persons that are U.S. citizens,
An individual citizen of a foreign country lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the U.S.,
A U.S. governmental unit or subdivision
A non-U.S. citizen corporation organized and doing business under the laws of the U.S. or one of the States as long as the aircraft is based and primarily used in the U.S. (60% of all flight hours must be from flights starting and ending within the U.S.)
I have operated a few of both G and N reg . To me the biggest benefit is using a FAA licence ....this means I can fly all the types I have access to without needing to keep ratings up to date . I have operated under both systems for the last 30 + years and can find no benefit at all to our EASA system especially if you fly many types . As for the aircraft I would say it's definitely cheaper and simpler especially if only doing few hours .
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G or N Reg?
I note what has been said before but no-one has really addressed the Maintenance Issue. If you are on the N Reg, your Maintenance will need to be done by a Licensed A & P Engineer or an Organisation Approved by the FAA to maintain your aircraft type. Have you located such a person or Organisation ?
It's interesting to note that Donald Trump, President elect of the US, who would surely qualify to use an N Reg, has an S76B located in UK and that is on the G Register (G-TRMP).
If it were my helicopter, I would be inclined to use the G Register and an EASA Part 145 Approved Maintenance Organisation. That way you can be assured that the Organisation has full oversight by UKCAA which will ensure a good and appropriate standard.
I'm not saying that FAA Standards are lower, just that oversight is more difficult and perhaps too relaxed...... Just my twopenn'orth
Sq
It's interesting to note that Donald Trump, President elect of the US, who would surely qualify to use an N Reg, has an S76B located in UK and that is on the G Register (G-TRMP).
If it were my helicopter, I would be inclined to use the G Register and an EASA Part 145 Approved Maintenance Organisation. That way you can be assured that the Organisation has full oversight by UKCAA which will ensure a good and appropriate standard.
I'm not saying that FAA Standards are lower, just that oversight is more difficult and perhaps too relaxed...... Just my twopenn'orth
Sq
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Depends on helicopter type ,the use of the helicopter and also in which maintenance organisation that would. Be maintaining it
But I think personally I would want FÂA oversight rather than non existent or variable CAA oversight. My 2 cents worth
The trump helicopter is on the G reg as it's used for public transport
N reg could cause serous problems
But I think personally I would want FÂA oversight rather than non existent or variable CAA oversight. My 2 cents worth
The trump helicopter is on the G reg as it's used for public transport
N reg could cause serous problems
I note what has been said before but no-one has really addressed the Maintenance Issue. If you are on the N Reg, your Maintenance will need to be done by a Licensed A & P Engineer or an Organisation Approved by the FAA to maintain your aircraft type. Have you located such a person or Organisation ?
It's interesting to note that Donald Trump, President elect of the US, who would surely qualify to use an N Reg, has an S76B located in UK and that is on the G Register (G-TRMP).
If it were my helicopter, I would be inclined to use the G Register and an EASA Part 145 Approved Maintenance Organisation. That way you can be assured that the Organisation has full oversight by UKCAA which will ensure a good and appropriate standard.
I'm not saying that FAA Standards are lower, just that oversight is more difficult and perhaps too relaxed...... Just my twopenn'orth
Sq
It's interesting to note that Donald Trump, President elect of the US, who would surely qualify to use an N Reg, has an S76B located in UK and that is on the G Register (G-TRMP).
If it were my helicopter, I would be inclined to use the G Register and an EASA Part 145 Approved Maintenance Organisation. That way you can be assured that the Organisation has full oversight by UKCAA which will ensure a good and appropriate standard.
I'm not saying that FAA Standards are lower, just that oversight is more difficult and perhaps too relaxed...... Just my twopenn'orth
Sq
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Something else to consider, in my opinion, the FAA are pro aviation and will be proactive in allowing your aircraft to fly.The CAA are against aviation and will be pro active in grounding your aircraft!
That's my experience anyway having had both!
That's my experience anyway having had both!
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N or G Reg?
An interesting thread. I tend to agree that the 'N' register gives an owner much more latitude in using a private, i.e. Part 91, helicopter. But as pointed out by ScotiaQ, what options are available in the UK when the helicopter requires maintenance outside of what Part 91 permits the owner to perform. Just how many 'N' registered helicopters are operating in the UK and where do they get maintained?
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An interesting thread. I tend to agree that the 'N' register gives an owner much more latitude in using a private, i.e. Part 91, helicopter. But as pointed out by ScotiaQ, what options are available in the UK when the helicopter requires maintenance outside of what Part 91 permits the owner to perform. Just how many 'N' registered helicopters are operating in the UK and where do they get maintained?
Also there are a lot of n reg helicopters and planes flying in the uk already just depends on which type the poster intends on buying
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mixed views but great to hear them.. im a us citizen with an adress in ny ..so thats the ownership sorted ?..very true in that the caa is anti flying .the faa is pro flying .. we all want thorough maintenance and safety is first and foremost. but im a mechanical engineer and can change a fuse going to the gps socket.so the faa programe allows a little bit more flexability..ive an faa licence .ok lets take a closer look . i need the names of 3 dar s in eu or uk let them price the paperwork and inspection , also 3 faa maintenance guys get an idea of annual costs and see where we re at as they say in the us.thanks to everyone
