Bell 206B,206L, 407 Left seat PIC conversion STC
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Bell 206B,206L, 407 Left seat PIC conversion STC
Who would be interested in a left seat PIC conversion for the Bell 206B, 206L, and possibly the 407? I am currently working on a project for our 206B and 206L to move the control head to the left side collective and be able to remove the right side controls.
I would like to know if there is any interest out there for this conversion. If there is enough demand I would consider getting a full FAA STC and selling the conversion kit. The B and L's are an easy swap, the 407 is gonna take a little more engineering.
It is so much better to long line from the left seat! Plus the area between the seats also makes for a nice spot to keep your stuff.
What do you guys think?
Here is what I am proposing. This is a left side collective.
http://www.timberlandhelicopters.com...e-Fig.-1-1.png
I would like to know if there is any interest out there for this conversion. If there is enough demand I would consider getting a full FAA STC and selling the conversion kit. The B and L's are an easy swap, the 407 is gonna take a little more engineering.
It is so much better to long line from the left seat! Plus the area between the seats also makes for a nice spot to keep your stuff.
What do you guys think?
Here is what I am proposing. This is a left side collective.
http://www.timberlandhelicopters.com...e-Fig.-1-1.png
Last edited by corey137; 14th Feb 2016 at 22:00.
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I've done a lot of research, and there is no STC which allows you to remove the right side controls. We have the Paravion STC in 2 of our helicopters. It's a compass you mount to the left side of the dash. It doesn't provide for the removal of the right cyclic, doesn't let you move the pedal lockouts to the right side, and you have to reach across and start the heli on the center collective. It sucks.
Last edited by corey137; 14th Feb 2016 at 22:04.
I can;t see the problem with the Paravion STC - why is using the centre collective more of a reach from the left seat than the right seat, and why does it matter if the right seat controls are left in? It's not like you are working with passengers on board, is it?
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I want to do it mostly for the purpose of long lining. Spending several hours per day leaning over the collective rather than away from it is just so much less painful on the back. It's also nicer for power line inspections. Just a lot smoother flying when you're crabbing along right side first (so you're lineman in the right seats can see better) versus left side first and fighting LTE the whole time. It also makes for some nice fast turns when slinging Xmas trees, I can move a lot faster spinning right hand turns rather than left turns.
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I do operate a lot with passengers. For example, doing fire initial attack I will fly a helitack crew to the fire, they jump out, hook up my bucket and off we go.
Power line work, is always crew transport, game survey, etc.
Power line work, is always crew transport, game survey, etc.
Just like Hueyracer and krypton_john have stated, I do not see a problem with the Paravion STC for what you are talking about, i.e. VR out of the left seat.
I also do power lines, long lines and work with fire crews now since 1991 and never had a problem flying from the right seat, even up in Oregon. I suspect there is no demand for what you want to build.
I also do power lines, long lines and work with fire crews now since 1991 and never had a problem flying from the right seat, even up in Oregon. I suspect there is no demand for what you want to build.
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It's a great idea Corey. Remove the controls, then the pax can't mess with them. No controls in the center leaves additional area to store things.
You have more visibility flying from the left, as the cockpit is offset with the dash more to the right of the centerline. Also, as per the Bell Medium series, the helicopter wants to be flown from the left, particularly VR ops. With heavy loads it takes far less pedal picking a load and heading off, with the nose hanging out to the right, so you can just look up and see where you are heading, compared to putting in a lot of left pedal to get the nose out of the way, so that you can see where you are going.
Biggest problem, is every mod for the helicopter assumes that you are flying from the right hand side. Some are easy to work around, as they state pilot station and co pilot station, and do not define LHS/ RHS. Some, not so easy.
Other things that you will want to consider. Turn the hook around, so that when you release your load, and slide right, the line doesn't catch on the hook.
Cut the collective down a couple of inches so that it's easier to slide your legs past when getting in and out.
I guess you probably already know most of the stuff above, if you have the paravion STC. Didn't know that they left both controls in with their STC, how do you guys in the states get on with having pax sitting in a seat with controls? Never thought it would be allowed.
If you want any more info, pm me. We have had a left hand drive JR for over 35 years, so have learnt a little bit about it.
You have more visibility flying from the left, as the cockpit is offset with the dash more to the right of the centerline. Also, as per the Bell Medium series, the helicopter wants to be flown from the left, particularly VR ops. With heavy loads it takes far less pedal picking a load and heading off, with the nose hanging out to the right, so you can just look up and see where you are heading, compared to putting in a lot of left pedal to get the nose out of the way, so that you can see where you are going.
Biggest problem, is every mod for the helicopter assumes that you are flying from the right hand side. Some are easy to work around, as they state pilot station and co pilot station, and do not define LHS/ RHS. Some, not so easy.
Other things that you will want to consider. Turn the hook around, so that when you release your load, and slide right, the line doesn't catch on the hook.
Cut the collective down a couple of inches so that it's easier to slide your legs past when getting in and out.
I guess you probably already know most of the stuff above, if you have the paravion STC. Didn't know that they left both controls in with their STC, how do you guys in the states get on with having pax sitting in a seat with controls? Never thought it would be allowed.
If you want any more info, pm me. We have had a left hand drive JR for over 35 years, so have learnt a little bit about it.
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I think everyone has gotten used to flying the 206 from the right seat. I used to until I started working for a company with a 206 with left side controls (there are actually three of them out there with one time STC's). Now I'm hooked on left seat PIC.
Gordy, I'm afraid you might be right when you say no one will be interested. But once you go left, you never want to go back! So if you're on a fire this summer and see some yahoo flying around on the wrong side of the heli, stop by and say hi.
I'm still going to go forward with my design either way, I just won't spend the time and money getting a full STC if it's not gonna sell.
Gordy, I'm afraid you might be right when you say no one will be interested. But once you go left, you never want to go back! So if you're on a fire this summer and see some yahoo flying around on the wrong side of the heli, stop by and say hi.
I'm still going to go forward with my design either way, I just won't spend the time and money getting a full STC if it's not gonna sell.
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I think it would be more popular for the 407 than the 206. Drill move guys would like it I think.
Are you doing anything with the dash? Moving primary flight instruments to the left?
What about a conviently mounted torque gauge and load cell on the left door post or similar.
Deleting the R/H controls would set it apart from other STCs. It would enable pax as well as a few pounds less empty weight.
Are you doing anything with the dash? Moving primary flight instruments to the left?
What about a conviently mounted torque gauge and load cell on the left door post or similar.
Deleting the R/H controls would set it apart from other STCs. It would enable pax as well as a few pounds less empty weight.
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The 206's use the same diameter collective tube with the same style attachment of the throttle shaft on each side, making the swap pretty easy.
The 407 uses the same collective as a 206 on the left side, but a completely different design on the right, no parts are interchangeable. It's doable, but a lot more design, fabricating, and actual engineering will have to go into that.
I fly 3 different 206's all with different years, styles and layouts of dash and it's not a problem in any of them. I don't think there is any need to redo the dash.
I do also have one 206 which has a torque gauge mounted under the collective on the left side. It is pretty sweet, and is actually quite a simple setup. Just T'ed off the torque meter oil line and inserted an extra gauge, under the collective. Simple 337, and if people were interested enough I could get an STC for that too.
And yes, having right side controls removed is why I want to do this whole project instead of just using Paravion's.
The 407 uses the same collective as a 206 on the left side, but a completely different design on the right, no parts are interchangeable. It's doable, but a lot more design, fabricating, and actual engineering will have to go into that.
I fly 3 different 206's all with different years, styles and layouts of dash and it's not a problem in any of them. I don't think there is any need to redo the dash.
I do also have one 206 which has a torque gauge mounted under the collective on the left side. It is pretty sweet, and is actually quite a simple setup. Just T'ed off the torque meter oil line and inserted an extra gauge, under the collective. Simple 337, and if people were interested enough I could get an STC for that too.
And yes, having right side controls removed is why I want to do this whole project instead of just using Paravion's.
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Older 206's had a tall seat and headroom sucked. Newer ones have a recessed seat pan and lower profile seat cushion, gives a couple inches of extra head room. Just enough room for me with a helmet.
I've never actually flown a 500, have only had people look at me and say I wouldn't fit too well. Also, most of our contracts won't take a 500 because they don't want to have to sit in the back.
I've never actually flown a 500, have only had people look at me and say I wouldn't fit too well. Also, most of our contracts won't take a 500 because they don't want to have to sit in the back.
It all depends on the compromise, doesn't it?
If you want to carry some gear in the boot and some passengers in the back seat then 206 it is. If you want to lift something heavy precisely or land on a confined slope or get somewhere quickly it has to be the 500.
If you want to carry some gear in the boot and some passengers in the back seat then 206 it is. If you want to lift something heavy precisely or land on a confined slope or get somewhere quickly it has to be the 500.
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Corey I think it would be awesome to get to fly from left seat and have all the goodies on that side also. Without having the mass of the other stick flopping around in the vacant pass. seat. The only little thing I can see is when I'm spraying I like to be able to look down and back at the load guy and make sure he is done fueling and that no hoses are still connected to me before takeoff which is easily done from the right seat. But I can load from either side on my tank other than the fuel has to be on the right. Outside of that I can only see benefits regardless what the helo is being used for. When I'm hunting coyotes most of the shooters are right handed so I have to crab a little to give them a better shot at times but if they were on the right side it would be more convienient. Also, most normal shotguns eject from the right side therefore the semi-autos will spit the casing back in the cab which I don't allow. Therefore have and auto on the right seat with a right hander will spit them outside and away from tail rotor also. Win, Win, Win, How soon can you have this done, let me be a test dummy for you... The paravion deal is just an expensive way to move the compass over, what a waste, if I want to fly left seat I will just crawl over their. Utility guys don't need no stinkin' compass...
