22nd Jan 2016: What went wrong with this AS 350B in Dominican Republic? Video...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
22nd Jan 2016: What went wrong with this AS 350B in Dominican Republic? Video...
...everything is more or less alright up till about 1.00 ... 
It concerns this mishap:
ASN Aircraft incident 22-JAN-2016 Aérospatiale AS 350B Ecureuil HI-850
It concerns this mishap:
ASN Aircraft incident 22-JAN-2016 Aérospatiale AS 350B Ecureuil HI-850
Date:22-JAN-2016Time:04:00 p.m. Type:Aérospatiale AS 350B EcureuilOwner/operator:Fuerza Aérea DominicanaRegistration: HI-850C/n / msn: 1928
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Looks to me as though the slope came as a bit of a surprise, and then dynamic rollover joined the party 
Unable to recognize and apply the correct technique for an off level landing. Doomed to crash early on when if was obvious the pilot was overcontrolling and in a situation beyond his competency level. I wonder where he was trained, and how he got through to captain an Astar without anyone noticing that he was missing the off-level skill. In Canada it is tested and trained on every PPC (OPC for your side of the ocean). What about EASA, is it required on an OPC there?
Sloping ground landing is a pretty basic helicopter skill - he clearly didn't have it!
When your legs have any form of muscles and don't look like cucumbers the cyclic will hit the leg before it reaches the static stop thus reducing the possible slope angle.
It takes a bit of moving around in the seat and flexing legs to maintain TR control and master the slope.
But if in doubt lift off and try again...
It takes a bit of moving around in the seat and flexing legs to maintain TR control and master the slope.
But if in doubt lift off and try again...
Or don't be sucked into landing in a particular area just because others have. The view isn't great but I'd have much preferred to land on the open flat area on the otherside of the track before considering the slope.
Not the first and not the last pilot who´s not fit in slope landings 
I recall the days, where inviting customers to sport events could be deducted from tax - so Formula 1 at the Nuernburg Race Track generated quite a lot of helicopter traffic from hotels around Cologne to the race track.
Only commercial pilots were allowed...
Except from the passenger drop off zones and the refueling spots - normal parking space were slope - with only little space available, cause all the helicopters had to fit there to be ready to depart directly after the qualifying/race.
And after landing and waiting for the next shuttle, pilots sat together, watching the attempts of more than one commercial pilot - with four bars on their shoulder - but needing minutes and several attempts, to get their helicopter down.....
area looked like that:
Helionline.de
Helionline.de
I recall the days, where inviting customers to sport events could be deducted from tax - so Formula 1 at the Nuernburg Race Track generated quite a lot of helicopter traffic from hotels around Cologne to the race track.
Only commercial pilots were allowed...
Except from the passenger drop off zones and the refueling spots - normal parking space were slope - with only little space available, cause all the helicopters had to fit there to be ready to depart directly after the qualifying/race.
And after landing and waiting for the next shuttle, pilots sat together, watching the attempts of more than one commercial pilot - with four bars on their shoulder - but needing minutes and several attempts, to get their helicopter down.....
area looked like that:
Helionline.de
Helionline.de
Which was mostly because of untrained marshallers putting you in spots the helicopter couldn't handle, like my 222 for example, being short of getting its mast cut off. That stupid meadow had a lot of machines busting their slope limits.
So, take it easy there buddy.
So, take it easy there buddy.
@GoodGrief - PIC stands for pilot in command
so that "should" be the one, who decides where to put the bird down and if the slope is accectable.
You can´t blame the marshaller, if you bend the bird - but as seen at the policehelicoptercrash in Berlin, the one with the witheout, where the pilot also wanted to land, where the marshaller was - instead of choosing a landingspot further away, pilots are making mistakes....
Back to the Krebsberg - actually there was also a little slope at the refuellingpoints - and I recall a Robbiepilot who needed several trys to get his bird down there - which were clearly within sloping limits...
There are even pilots around, who have problems putting a bird down at no slope at all
so that "should" be the one, who decides where to put the bird down and if the slope is accectable.
You can´t blame the marshaller, if you bend the bird - but as seen at the policehelicoptercrash in Berlin, the one with the witheout, where the pilot also wanted to land, where the marshaller was - instead of choosing a landingspot further away, pilots are making mistakes....
Back to the Krebsberg - actually there was also a little slope at the refuellingpoints - and I recall a Robbiepilot who needed several trys to get his bird down there - which were clearly within sloping limits...
There are even pilots around, who have problems putting a bird down at no slope at all
"Just a pilot"
Every landing in an Astar is an "off level"/slope landing
Right heel first. Turn it around and land left skid up hill and you get about 5 degree advantage.
I don't understand why people are so reluctant to abort an operation when it starts going sideways...
I don't understand why people are so reluctant to abort an operation when it starts going sideways...
@Flying Bull
I am fully aware of aviation abbreviations. We didn't bend anything because we aborted and chose another landing spot.
No need to bring Berlin into the equation, the self proclaimed elite police did everything wrong.Another story.
I am fully aware of aviation abbreviations. We didn't bend anything because we aborted and chose another landing spot.
No need to bring Berlin into the equation, the self proclaimed elite police did everything wrong.Another story.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oregon, US
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right on Flying Bull. In the utility world here in the states several utilities are trying to emulate the USFS methods for organizing and managing aircraft. They, for example always want marshallers anywhere you land or designated signalmen anywhere you place or pick up a load. It is kind of laughable, because the pilots for the most part disregard these untrained, or undertrained "designated signalmen".
The Marshaller, and designated signalmen are outgrowths of military culture where: the aircraft are typically huge and have poor visibility, the pilots are minimally experienced, and certainly not vertical reference proficient, and there are always a dozen people standing around waiting to do something.
In most cases both are unnecessary and can even lure an unaware pilot into more danger.
The Marshaller, and designated signalmen are outgrowths of military culture where: the aircraft are typically huge and have poor visibility, the pilots are minimally experienced, and certainly not vertical reference proficient, and there are always a dozen people standing around waiting to do something.
In most cases both are unnecessary and can even lure an unaware pilot into more danger.
The landing looked ok to me, but then it appears he tried to reposition or realign himself without fully lifting off, then dynamic rollover from one trapped skid. Should have just downed collective and given up.
[edit]
[edit]
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: London
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looked like he was trying to dry hump or Tea-bag the mound upon initial touch down, followed by a Dynamic rollover when turning. I thought at first the tail hit something behind but the roll had already started.
Totally the pilots fault if he decided to move it unless under instruction.
Shame anther bird lost.
Totally the pilots fault if he decided to move it unless under instruction.
Shame anther bird lost.
