Lets talk drones

[MarcK]

But there are plenty of options available for restricting the sale, the purchase and the use of any commodity that has the potential to kill.

Sure. Let's add these to the list of licensed items...

[newfieboy]

Hi Gordy
Yep fire season kicking ass out West here also. Drones causing problems on fires here in Canada.

Drone operators blast 'irresponsible and selfish' flight that grounded firefighters

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/drone-operators-blast-irresponsible-and-selfish-flight-that-grounded-firefighters-1.3193540

Anyways be safe Bud,and good luck in CA. I'm off for a change, going aerial spraying for forestry tomorrow.

[[email protected]]

Jerry - the problem with the argument is that the punishment is always retrospective. If you shoot 20 people with your gun you will go to prison but 20 people will have lost their lives - if you hadn't been allowed the gun in the first place that would be far less likely to occur.

if a di*khead with a drone takes out a helo or an airliner, he will be traced and prosecuted but those crews/pax will still be dead.

[Mechta]

[email protected], your logic can be applied to any activity that humans do which carries an element of risk to others. Where do you stop?

[chopjock]

crab

if you hadn't been allowed the gun in the first place that would be far less likely to occur.

Are you suggesting no one should be allowed a drone in the first place?

[GlenQuagmire]

I don't understand all this talk of death and destruction. I fly a decent sized plane for a living and I just don't see how this is a problem. Birds are a much more significant threat than a drone and nobody is campaigning for the abolition of birds. Multirotors, model helicopters, model planes etc don't fly in swarms or flocks so the maximum risk is only the same as a bird strike. Bird strike is a risk we factor and attempt to mitigate so why is there such a focus on multirotors? Stop calling them drones by the way - they are not generally autonomous and if they are they are covered by CAP722 or similar in other countries. If you're really bothered about it why not fingerprint models with smart water or something similar so that owners can be traced if something goes wrong. Our industry has got bigger problems than RC models - psychos in the cockpit, nutters in the back, pay to fly issues, declining skills..

I'm more afraid of thunderstorms - ban them!

[tistisnot]

Here you go GlenQuag ...... Talon spotter!

Eagle Takes Down Drone And Reclaims The Skies For Itself - Digg

[Thracian]

Glen,

in contrast to birds, mutlicopters don't have any instinct of avoiding selfdistructive encounters with other aircraft.
And there are possibilities to predict at least the probability of a bird strike depending on the weather, the times and the surrounding environment. You can almost be sure, that multicopters don't adhere to these schemes.

And yes, they ARE (at least some of them) autonomous. The producers are advertising the ability of programming a path for them at home and then flying it without any further control inputs.
And they ARE (many of them) able to "return home" autonomously when battery starts getting low.

And especially helicopters (when firefighting, when doing MEDEVAC, EMS or any other low level airwork they're used for) are flying at or at least often at the same altitude levels.

The first mid-air is waiting to happen...

We pilots have to learn a bunch of rules, a load of procedures and payed a good part of a fortune only to be allowed using our airspace. And there are those owners of multicopters who bought them at some internet store for a few bucks, didn't have to learn anything, just plug a cam to those things and start flying in the same airspace without even knowing that there ARE rules that apply.

I don't want to propose to forbid multicopters, but the buyers at least have to learn a little bit about the rules that apply, the danger their toys may become for others and the consequences that may occur if something happens.

Thracian

[JerryG]

Thracian

I don't want to propose to forbid multicopters, but the buyers at least have to learn a little bit about the rules that apply, the danger their toys may become for others and the consequences that may occur if something happens.

My point entirely with reference to guns.

Glen

I fly a decent sized plane for a living

Come and join us down at low level to discover the birds (who do indeed try to avoid us) and the drones/multicopters/whatever who actively seek to be in the same airspace as us because of what's going on below e.g. fire, accident etc.

Crab

the problem with the argument is that the punishment is always retrospective.

While that's true the key lies in KNOWING that there will be retrospective punishment, which most do not as Thracian has said.

MarcK - If you want to talk about knives then you entirely make my case. I'm not an expert on this but isn't it still illegal to sell, carry or use a flick knife? Why? ... because on balance that particular branch of knives is more likely than not to be used in a way that we (the rest of us) don't want it to be used ... because it's dangerous.

[MarcK]

MarcK - If you want to talk about knives then you entirely make my case. I'm not an expert on this but isn't it still illegal to sell, carry or use a flick knife? Why? ... because on balance that particular branch of knives is more likely than not to be used in a way that we (the rest of us) don't want it to be used ... because it's dangerous.

Well, in turn, that makes MY case. I disagree that multicopters are more likely than not to be used in a dangerous way.

[Thracian]

I disagree that multicopters are more likely than not to be used in a dangerous way

More likely than not, multicopter "operators" don't even know, which action could result in dangerous situations, or which rules in general apply for airspace.

For guns, in most countries you need training and certification. For drivers licenses (i.e. using public roadspace) and pilot licenses (i.e. using public airspace), in all countries you need training and certification, even for model flying.
For multicopters you only need a few bucks and nothing more.

That's where the danger arises. It's all about knowledge and responsibility.

Tell multicopter buyers a few pages about airlaw, the possible situations "up there", the consquences that can occur based on their doings, let them sign a paper that they read this, register each buyer with the model-id and this signed letter, and they - most likely - will act more careful with their toys.

Until then, the risk rises with "drone"-sells

Thracian

[[email protected]]

Maplin -(an electronics chain store in UK) has reported a quadrupling in sales of drones in the last year.

How many of those purchasers give a t*ss about air-law, safety or even privacy?

[Flying Binghi]

Yep, as others have commented. Very easy to fly. Took me about a minute to learn to fly me new drone. Sent it off into the wild blue, (geo fenced up to 400' and out to 600') left it there a while, and then selected auto return and it flew itself back to within 5 odd metres of me and landed itself.
Wait until them terrorist chaps work out how to reverse program them drones and send a hand grenade pay-load out to a preset GPS co-ordinate..

[JerryG]

FIVE HOURS of grounded fire-fighters for one drone ...

Drone flies above B.C. wildfire, forcing helicopter fleet to stop fighting blaze for five hours | National Post

"The RCMP worked to find the drone late Sunday afternoon, but had not found it or its operator".

[chopjock]

"Drone forces helicopter fleet to stop fighting blaze for five hours"

Or was it the authorities over reacting because of a 5 minute flight with a small drone?

[Gordy]

chopjock:

Or was it the authorities over reacting because of a 5 minute flight with a small drone?

We fly around often with only half to one mile viz....the problem is that once a drone is spotted, we cannot guarantee it is on the ground until the owner is located. It would be a brave person to tell us to go fly again without confirming the status of the drone. Just like wires....it is not the one you see thaat gets you---it will be the one you don't.

[chopjock]

.the problem is that once a drone is spotted, we cannot guarantee it is on the ground until the owner is located.

There appears to be a self perpetuating problem then, because the drone being so small and it's pilot may be not wanting to be found and all the helicopters are grounded?
The authorities prefer to let the fires burn based on lack of information???
Yet there has never been a case of a drone collision with a full size aircraft? That's Hysteria.

[Gordy]

Yet there has never been a case of a drone collision with a full size aircraft? That's Hysteria

And I would rather not be the first.... I for one will sit on the ground until the drone is confirmed on the ground. It is hard enough keeping track of the of the other helicopters you know are in line with you let alone a drone.

[fatmanmedia]

here is a crazy idea.

why not rig up a Ec145, a R22, R44 for remote controlled flight and fly them in to a DJi and see what the results are, that way we will know for sure what the results will be.

I'm using them for example but it any other helicopters.

have one drone flying in to the blades and on a different heli have it fly head on.

It's the only way that this could be resolved.

fats

[chopjock]

Gordy,

Just like wires....it is not the one you see thaat gets you

What do you do if there are unseen wires around ???

Wait on the ground until they are found?