Longford, Australia, S76 Engine Failure at CDP
In my limited experience I've seen all engine types blow up at some point in service, and that includes 1S1, 2S1, PT6 and C30. No particular type has a tendency to blow up any more than the others, I'm just glad that a spare was always available on-board when the other didn't want to play any more.
I would side with you on the C30 OLEARY.
At one point in the early 80's in an attempt to control the massive carbon build up within the engine which was leading to turbine failures one operator had each of it's six aircraft operating on different engine oils to determine which had the best anti coking characteristics.
A maintenance nightmare but the answer was Mobil 254 and that was still in use 25 years later.
The other maintenance nightmare was that every Friday one aircraft had both turbines removed which were sent for a total strip and decoke for reinstallation on the Sunday and flying on Monday.
Can you imagine having to shop visit your engines every six weeks today!!!!!
As for the armour plated engine bays, well I think that speaks for itself.
Gullibell
I think you comments about the general reliability of helicopter engines is accurate.
There are other possible reasons for a bad run, you could just as easily point the finger at operating practices, maintenance or a specific overhaul shop without even mentioning the manufacturer.
For what it's worth we flew about 10,000 engine hours over 4 years with the 1S2 without a total failure. Engines rejected for other reasons FOD, chips e.t.c. but no major failures.
At one point in the early 80's in an attempt to control the massive carbon build up within the engine which was leading to turbine failures one operator had each of it's six aircraft operating on different engine oils to determine which had the best anti coking characteristics.
A maintenance nightmare but the answer was Mobil 254 and that was still in use 25 years later.
The other maintenance nightmare was that every Friday one aircraft had both turbines removed which were sent for a total strip and decoke for reinstallation on the Sunday and flying on Monday.
Can you imagine having to shop visit your engines every six weeks today!!!!!
As for the armour plated engine bays, well I think that speaks for itself.
Gullibell
I think you comments about the general reliability of helicopter engines is accurate.
There are other possible reasons for a bad run, you could just as easily point the finger at operating practices, maintenance or a specific overhaul shop without even mentioning the manufacturer.
For what it's worth we flew about 10,000 engine hours over 4 years with the 1S2 without a total failure. Engines rejected for other reasons FOD, chips e.t.c. but no major failures.
Last edited by ericferret; 18th Aug 2013 at 09:12.
Indeed, my time with the S76A (Okanagan Australia) in the early years had very few engine problems and certainly no failures of note. Does that make me similarly 'uninformed'?
...including extensive combat experience in Vietnam, having been shot down several times by enemy action (usually on a Sunday!). Respect definitely earned and due.
O'Leary
Out of order and uncalled for. You should apologise to Brian. He was no doubt referring to Esso Australia.
Your comments show that you are the new boy on the block, even if you do know about the C30 failures.
Out of order and uncalled for. You should apologise to Brian. He was no doubt referring to Esso Australia.
Your comments show that you are the new boy on the block, even if you do know about the C30 failures.
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Australia is going to introduce PC1 and PC2 relations into RMS shortly and such incidents are very topical here.
I think what the Europeans have done to establish minimum engine reliability standards for certain PC2 operations (not more than one in-flight engine shut-down per 100,000 flight hours in the most recent 5-year period) is relevant. While Allison C30 and Turbomeca Arriel engines both had reliability issues in the past, I think they currently meet the European standard.
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not more than one in-flight engine shut-down per 100,000 flight hours in the most recent 5-year period)
cheers tet
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You, sir, are extraordinarily UNINFORMED, ...
The S-76A incident which caused everyone to shake their heads was the one where one of the armor plates cut the tail rotor driveshaft after it's mounting fatigued and failed.
The Sultan
The Sultan
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John Eacott states, "That's not only a bit harsh but remarkably insulting to Brian: a simple check would tell you that he has had a stellar career in helicopters over the past 45 or so years. Esso is well known for excellent maintenance and Brian's experience on the S76 flying for Esso does not deserve your comments, even if your experience of the C30 is less fortunate.
Indeed, my time with the S76A (Okanagan Australia) in the early years had very few engine problems and certainly no failures of note. Does that make me similarly 'uninformed'? "
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Yes, John, it does!
Why the hell did Sikorsky/Allison mandate the installation of the 170 pound "containment kit" in 1982!
Esso Canada was mightily pissed about this as they lost one seat - and I know, because I was the Okie job manager in Tuk!
The kit was the result of Dome Petroleum's (Mel Barton, Captain) total destruction of MQE. And this sure as hell was not the only case of a C30 in a 76 grenading.
Indeed, my time with the S76A (Okanagan Australia) in the early years had very few engine problems and certainly no failures of note. Does that make me similarly 'uninformed'? "
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Yes, John, it does!
Why the hell did Sikorsky/Allison mandate the installation of the 170 pound "containment kit" in 1982!
Esso Canada was mightily pissed about this as they lost one seat - and I know, because I was the Okie job manager in Tuk!
The kit was the result of Dome Petroleum's (Mel Barton, Captain) total destruction of MQE. And this sure as hell was not the only case of a C30 in a 76 grenading.
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Brian Abraham states, "6,000 hours in the A and ditto in the C. I see where you are coming from though oleary. The early days were indeed trouble some, when I said "good service" I guess I meant very few heart stopping moments - none for this little turkey, though there were some "interesting moments".
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Thank you, Brian. I only had 5 engine malfunctions in the first 500 hours I flew 76's - fortunately nothing as dramatic as a third stage wheel burst - which is what we are talking about here.
I picked up Mel and his co-pilot- there was nothing left but the tail, main blade tips and a few gears.
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Thank you, Brian. I only had 5 engine malfunctions in the first 500 hours I flew 76's - fortunately nothing as dramatic as a third stage wheel burst - which is what we are talking about here.
I picked up Mel and his co-pilot- there was nothing left but the tail, main blade tips and a few gears.
Last edited by oleary; 19th Aug 2013 at 07:05.
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Brian Abrahamson stated, "Actually the C30 gave very good service, only recall one catastrophic engine failure in all the years of operation.
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Industry insider states, "Out of order and uncalled for. You should apologise to Brian. He was no doubt referring to Esso Australia."
Your comments show that you are the new boy on the block, even if you do know about the C30 failures.
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What utter bull****!!!
Do your homework on uncontained C30 third-stage wheel bursts before you comment again!!!
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Industry insider states, "Out of order and uncalled for. You should apologise to Brian. He was no doubt referring to Esso Australia."
Your comments show that you are the new boy on the block, even if you do know about the C30 failures.
---------------------------------------------------------------
What utter bull****!!!
Do your homework on uncontained C30 third-stage wheel bursts before you comment again!!!
Oleary
I started flying the S-76A in the early 80s. I don't need to do my homework, I remember the whole series of C30 failures and the whole episode only too well, I think a friend of mine (TWM) had one.
You are rude. Go away.
I started flying the S-76A in the early 80s. I don't need to do my homework, I remember the whole series of C30 failures and the whole episode only too well, I think a friend of mine (TWM) had one.
You are rude. Go away.
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Industry insider,
Terry was one the many who had a C30 uncontained third stage event in a 76.
But if there was no problem with the C30 installation, then why did Sikorsky/Allison mandate the installation of that 170 pound "containment kit"? Which was nothing but a Rube Goldberg contrivance designed to protect the helicopter FROM ITS OWN ENGINES!
Which is the point I was trying to make from the beginning.
Perhaps rudely, but never-the-less - TRUE.
Anyway, as I said, do your homework on C18, C20, C28 and C30 third stage bursts. Those engines killed a lot of people - some were friends of mine.
Terry was one the many who had a C30 uncontained third stage event in a 76.
But if there was no problem with the C30 installation, then why did Sikorsky/Allison mandate the installation of that 170 pound "containment kit"? Which was nothing but a Rube Goldberg contrivance designed to protect the helicopter FROM ITS OWN ENGINES!
Which is the point I was trying to make from the beginning.
Perhaps rudely, but never-the-less - TRUE.
Anyway, as I said, do your homework on C18, C20, C28 and C30 third stage bursts. Those engines killed a lot of people - some were friends of mine.
Last edited by oleary; 19th Aug 2013 at 07:20.
Yep, a schrapnel maker, and expensive shrapnel at that 
I think these engines work a lot harder on a S76A than say, on a B206L...even so, handy to have a spare on-board (as long as said shrapnel hasn't taken out any other important bits that you need to get home).
oops: now that I have my beer goggles on that looks more like a 1S1 than a C30?
I think these engines work a lot harder on a S76A than say, on a B206L...even so, handy to have a spare on-board (as long as said shrapnel hasn't taken out any other important bits that you need to get home).oops: now that I have my beer goggles on that looks more like a 1S1 than a C30?
Last edited by gulliBell; 19th Aug 2013 at 12:09.
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minimum engine reliability standards for certain PC2 operations (not more than
one in-flight engine shut-down per 100,000 flight hours in the most recent
5-year period)
one in-flight engine shut-down per 100,000 flight hours in the most recent
5-year period)
Is it further qualified with number of units being monitored or example? Bit like saying Robinsons crash more than other light helicopters when there are
multi more of that type around than others.
multi more of that type around than others.