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Old 20th Jan 2012, 21:32   #41 (permalink)
 
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Location: 3nm SE of TNT, UK
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Hey Sid

.........I think you may need to reset that clock - April 2013 apparently - at least for those in our part of the world
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Old 21st Jan 2012, 15:47   #42 (permalink)
 
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Will the clock become NPAS property, if so what date, and who will employ it?
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Old 21st Jan 2012, 17:34   #43 (permalink)
 
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Art,

I dont think the actual design of the NPAS clock is complete yet,
and is being developed as part of the "Watchkeeper Workstream".

The basic concept however is that there will be a single NPAS clock - kept at NPAS HQ -
to make timekeeping more efficient, which will also save money on the cost of keeping time.

All existing Air Support Units clocks will be removed from service, saving vast amounts ( in percentage terms )
that are spent around the Country on Mains power, and watch & clock batteries as only one AA battery will be needed, plus one spare.

Timekeeping around the National Air Support Units will be standardised,
with a new "NPAS Day". This will comprise 14 NPAS Hours that are equivalent to 24 Pre NPAS Hours.

This radical new concept will have the following effect :
  • Units currently operating 24 hours a day will only have to work 14 hours under NPAS,
    yet will be able to provide the same service. ( Same for less ).
  • Promises to arrive on scene within 20 minutes are much more likely to be achieved under NPAS time,
    as 20 NPAS minutes will be the equivalent of 35 Pre NPAS minutes. ( More for same ).
  • The wages bill will be considerably less - only 14 hours of wages to be paid each day. ( Same for less )
Sorted

Coconutty is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2012, 20:11   #44 (permalink)

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April 2013...Mmmm, I'd like to see what happens to that £11million budget, on top of the £4million from last year.

Quote:
The National Police Air Service will have 23 aircraft at 20 bases. This will save £15m from the current total of £66m.
BBC News - New service to provide police helicopters

I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think there's an elephant in the room
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 00:11   #45 (permalink)
 
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Coconutty - thank you for your excellent analysis, I have a nasty feeling you've hit one of the nails on the head.

Nice to have a chortle on a Saturday night!
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 19:38   #46 (permalink)
 
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April 1st 2012 seemed the right date for NPAS; are we to wait another year? Spin, smoke & mirrors all still functioning to maximum effect.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 19:54   #47 (permalink)
 
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Fortyodd is joining NPAS later (2013) than the others as his region will be the last (ish) to join. The final tranche joins after the para olympics is over (2014).
The NWAOG region have been operating as a test region since last July. The other 'shadow' region is the CRASU which started in June 2011. And a jolly good job they are doing to!
However the original cost savings projected to be 22% (Option 2) have been whittled down to between 11% and 18% (depending on who you talk to) inside these shadow regions.
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Old 22nd Jan 2012, 23:31   #48 (permalink)
 
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Let's give Ollie a chance!

C'mon Guy's. I've been one of the strongest criticts of NPAS amongst you, but I have worked alongside Ollie and firmly believe that if anyone can deliver some sanity out of this pigs breakfast, then its Ollie.

Lets cut him some slack, and give him some time start working his magic. He's got an unbelievably impossible task ahead without us making it more difficult for him.

I believe implicitely in a National Police Airwing, but not in the way that Hogan-Howe and Alex Marshall saw it, - purely as a money saving exercise!!

I believe that Ollie recognises the need to save money, but also recognises that it should not be at the expense of efficiency. - Difficult task, but lets try to help, and not make his job more difficult!

tigerfish
aka "Old Grumpy"
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Old 23rd Jan 2012, 21:52   #49 (permalink)
 
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Give tiger fish a chance?

Tfish

I'm not sure what you have been drinking lately, absolutely no one appears to have critised OD on this thread whatsoever? Probably due to the fact that he is not in a position to do anything until March?

I cannot see anyone on this thread making things difficult at all for OD, only to wish him the very best wishes but, no magic, although someone has made NT disappear, perhaps that was the wizard of South Yorkshire - or is that the 'ghost' of South Yorkshire.

Your post TF is about 6 months too early methinks, are you using the NPAS clock yet?


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Old 23rd Jan 2012, 23:56   #50 (permalink)
 
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Gas generator

Certainly not! And I think that you may be the one that might be behind the drag curve. Because I understand that OD is being released early from his current chains!

Now is not the time for in fighting! Have you never understood the value of nurturing the 1st shoots of spring?

What I was saying is that there is just a little chink of light on the horizen. So lets give it a chance to come good!

Actually I think that the bit from Coconutty about "NPAS time" is great, and we aught to adopt it! ( In reverse of course).

tigerfish.

Last edited by tigerfish; 24th Jan 2012 at 00:10.
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Old 24th Jan 2012, 05:38   #51 (permalink)
 
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From what I hear the NPAS Calendar is also being adjusted ( April 2012 = ??? )

Should give Olly ( Who also has my full support ) much more time to get things sorted

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Old 26th Jan 2012, 07:49   #52 (permalink)

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The Guardian, Thursday 26 January 2012

Minister will use powers for the first time


Quote:
Police to share national air service
Policing minister will for the first time use powers to direct forces to collaborate, after one force objected to plan


Nick Herbert, the policing minister. Photograph: Steve Parsons/PA

A national police air service is to be launched to ensure all forces across England and Wales have 24-hour access to a helicopter.

The policing minister, Nick Herbert, has for the first time used powers to direct forces to collaborate with each other to create the service, after one police authority, South Yorkshire, launched a campaign to keep sole use of its helicopter.

The service will have 22 aircraft, mostly helicopters but also some fixed-wing planes, operating from 20 bases across the country.

Herbert, who will announce the move in a speech in London, will say that the collaborative move will save £15m a year out of the current £70m annual bill for keeping police helicopters in the air.

"The plan has the full support of chief constables and will give all forces access to helicopter support 24 hours a day, 365 days a year – in contrast to the current system which sees some force helicopters grounded for days at a time while they are being repaired," Herbert said.

He said the plan had the support of all 41 chief constables and the majority of police authorities, and to get the full benefits the whole of the police service in England and Wales had to take part.

"The time for talking about collaboration, and the era of police fiefdoms, is over," Herbert said. "In exceptional cases of last resort, I am prepared to mandate arrangements where a small minority of authorities or forces creates a barrier to more efficient or effective policing."

The order directing South Yorkshire to take part in the national air service is to be made under new powers in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011.

The decision to set up a national police air service followed a review by Bernard Hogan-Howe when he was chief constable of Merseyside in 2009. It found that in too many cases forces refused to allow their helicopters to be used over the border in a neighbouring force area, even if it was closer to the incident.

South Yorkshire police authority rejected the Home Office's invitation to take part, arguing it would mean the nearest helicopters for them would be based in Derbyshire, Humberside and West Yorkshire.

Charles Perryman its chairman, said last week: "We want a police helicopter to be based in South Yorkshire to maintain an effective and resilient air support for the county."
Police to share national air service | UK news | The Guardian
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Old 26th Jan 2012, 12:37   #53 (permalink)

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Everyone's waiting!

BBC News - South Yorkshire police chairman criticises helicopter cut

Police wait for news on helicopter contract (From This Is Wiltshire)
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Old 26th Jan 2012, 12:39   #54 (permalink)
 
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Coconutty is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2012, 12:46   #55 (permalink)

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http://www.west-midlands-pa.gov.uk/d...ir_Service.pdf

Finance and Resources Committee 19 January 2012

NATIONAL POLICE AIR SERVICE
Report of the Chief Constable and Treasurer
.
Quote:
.
.
NPAS FUNDING MODEL

Capital
5. Previous financial models have been based on transferring ownership of the helicopter asset to NPAS, with a complicated ‘capital credit’ and ‘capital contribution’ to reflect the loss of an asset and the cost of funding a replacement.

6. However, this is no longer the preferred option and the latest proposed funding model does not require transfer of ownership. The current proposal is to top slice capital grant at a national level and redirect capital grant directly to NPAS to fund asset purchase and replacement. There is currently £12m of capital grant allocated to NPAS, and this new approach would see an additional £22m of capital grant redirected out of force allocations to NPAS over the remaining three years of the CSR.

7. The impact on West Midlands of this top slice is that capital grant allocations are reduced by £1.15m over three years. This needs to be balanced against the removal of the previous ‘capital contribution’ of £0.95m over the three years. The net position therefore is that the top slice is £0.2m higher than the capital contribution would have been. Whilst not hugely material to the overall capital resources available to the Authority, it is worth noting that for 27 forces the top slice is less than the capital contribution would have been and hence they have gained from the change in approach.

8. As the asset will now not be transferred to NPAS the ‘capital credit’ mechanism will also not apply, however West Midlands Police will receive the proceeds from the disposal of the helicopter at the end of it’s life. This will provide a capital receipt and should not generate any cost.

Revenue
9. The underlying principle of NPAS is that every force will pay less for air support than
they currently do (based on 2009/10 figures). An update of revenue costs is expected in the first week of January and a verbal update will be provided at the meeting. However, the latest information we have is that the revenue cost of NPAS to West Midlands Police will be £1.8m compared to the existing budget of £1.9m, thus resulting in a saving of £0.1m.
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Old 26th Jan 2012, 13:45   #56 (permalink)

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Nice one coco;

Here's one from Nick earlier in his career;

'Nick Herbert launches Honest Food labelling campaign'




In more modern times;
Perhaps he'd like to support an honest reaction time/effectiveness campaign!






There is hope though...who ate all the pies!!!!!
Commissioner Kerry Katona for top police role in Cheshire?
Quote:
“Nick Herbert (police minister) and his friends in the numerous ‘think tanks’ that come up with these ideas must be very proud. This is not the common room at a private school, this is the real world and changes in the way we police need careful consideration by people with an understanding of the dangerous job officers do on a daily basis.”
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Old 27th Jan 2012, 11:28   #57 (permalink)
 
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So....the fat lady has sung........at least South Yorks will have the moral high ground when stats prove they've suffered in a few years time.

As forces will not now be transferring their aircraft as capital assets, who will be paying for the replacements when they're needed?
Art of flight is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2012, 11:50   #58 (permalink)
 
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Ownership?

But if ownership remains with the existing forces, how can NPAS DICTATE where the asset is based?

For example how can NPAS now force Bedfordshire and partners to give up their EC135 as a spare, and close down their operation at RAF Henlow?

If confirmed, the new arrangements would appear not so very different from the existing picture, - except perhaps, with enhanced and mandated co-operation between units. Something that was increasingly happening anyway.

Or have I misunderstood?

tigerfish

Last edited by tigerfish; 27th Jan 2012 at 13:32.
tigerfish is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2012, 15:50   #59 (permalink)
 
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Tigerfish - I understand your logic. So if SYorks (for example) have to give up their helicopter from Budget A to satisfy the NPAS mandarins, could they open a new Budget B and operate the helicopter from there...?

it sort of makes you want to urge SYorks to carry on flying do this to NPAS... (with thanks to Google and apologies to Ocama's chief of staff...!)

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Old 27th Jan 2012, 16:09   #60 (permalink)
 
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15th November 2012 - ( "Super Thursday" ), is the date for elections to be held for the new Police Commssioners,
and, if the Public want them, to elect new Mayors in some cities.

Is it time to start campaigning for who WE want in these posts ?

I propose Tigerish for the West Midlands Police Commissioner,
( I'm sure we can rustle up a few volunteers if you need a hand moving house )

and while we're there how about Sid for the new Mayor of Birmingham ?

.... oh, and in response to Sid's "Who ate all the pies", it was our old friend the then Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott who announced, in March 1999 :
"Local people in towns and cities everywhere will be able to vote for an elected mayor to lead their communities.
They will be able to choose how their communities should be governed."



John Prescott: "Communities will choose how to be governed"


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