The Rotary Nostalgia Thread
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Photo of G-AXMM
Hallo Savoia.....I've checked my neg strips to confirm 'XMM was at Bembridge (sandwiched between Islanders!) (and not at LHR where I worked)...it was a Britten-Norman open weekend ...Flight magazine a couple of weeks later reported that the planned Air Race round the island was delayed by fog 24hrs (till the Sunday when I was there).
Re the well-connected and Heli-friendly Insurance Man Charles Hughesdon's autobiography I found the most amazing story in there was that of the Solicitor, back in 1949, who (for a £5,000 'present') arranged for the Treasury Solicitor/The Crown to re-imburse the underwriters in the case of the Collision of an RAF York and a SAS DC-6 near Northolt (the RAF York had been found 'in the wrong' by an Inquiry).
Re the Papal Helicopter did you know that the Vatican reviewed having a fixed wing airstrip built in the Vatican grounds about 1946 (its recorded in Flight Global archive). During WWII the Americans maintained a Charge d'Affaires in the Vatican City seconded from Switzerland which they connected to by Italian Train ( the US only established full diplomatic relations withthe Vatican State under Reagan in the 80s) .But in addition in 1942 an American envoy, Myron Taylor was flown from Lisbon by an Ali Littoria Savoia
to Rome Airport, from where he was driven in a limousine with blacked out windows to the Vatican(to convince Pope Pius XII the Allies were going to win)...a visit permitted by Count Ciano and later regretted by Mussolini
Very interesting thread....speed-read 20 pages so far ... Mick
Re the well-connected and Heli-friendly Insurance Man Charles Hughesdon's autobiography I found the most amazing story in there was that of the Solicitor, back in 1949, who (for a £5,000 'present') arranged for the Treasury Solicitor/The Crown to re-imburse the underwriters in the case of the Collision of an RAF York and a SAS DC-6 near Northolt (the RAF York had been found 'in the wrong' by an Inquiry).
Re the Papal Helicopter did you know that the Vatican reviewed having a fixed wing airstrip built in the Vatican grounds about 1946 (its recorded in Flight Global archive). During WWII the Americans maintained a Charge d'Affaires in the Vatican City seconded from Switzerland which they connected to by Italian Train ( the US only established full diplomatic relations withthe Vatican State under Reagan in the 80s) .But in addition in 1942 an American envoy, Myron Taylor was flown from Lisbon by an Ali Littoria Savoia
to Rome Airport, from where he was driven in a limousine with blacked out windows to the Vatican(to convince Pope Pius XII the Allies were going to win)...a visit permitted by Count Ciano and later regretted by MussoliniVery interesting thread....speed-read 20 pages so far
... Mick
Last edited by A30yoyo; 3rd Jan 2012 at 20:11.
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Good morning Savoia!
In the interests of keeping your amazing collection of aviation memorabilia accurate I post below the actual badge worn on my flying suit!! Note that it has Station Flight at the bottom!
Anorak or what.........................?
In the interests of keeping your amazing collection of aviation memorabilia accurate I post below the actual badge worn on my flying suit!! Note that it has Station Flight at the bottom!
Anorak or what.........................?
Thread Starter
Bast0n much appreciated!
I'm sure I've been labelled an anorak (I've certainly been accused of being a spotter) and worse but, sincerely, I could care less!
It is my hope that on this thread and elsewhere we can preserve (for now) a small sampling of rotary-wing history for posterity and if there are but a handful of Rotorheads who enjoy this .. then that is good enough for me. Those for whom rotary-wing history is of no interest are clear to "Foxtrot Oscar" to another thread!
Yoyo, thanks for joining the discussion. I should just perhaps introduce Yoyo .. he is one of the legion of photographers I regularly pester for permissions to post on PPRuNe. As it happens several of the photographers have PPRuNe accounts by rarely dip-in to the conversation despite the fact that I always encourage them to do so.
On this occassion, celebrated Airliners.net and Air-Britain photograher Mick West (aka Yoyo) who shot G-AXMM in the photo above, has taken-up the invitation and joined our merry band .. welcome.
Thank you too for the very interesting tidbits on several past subjects .. most interesting.
My thanks to everyone who contributes to "Nostalgia" - what will make a good thread 'great' is if more readers contribute their stories of times past.
All are warmly welcome.
I'm sure I've been labelled an anorak (I've certainly been accused of being a spotter) and worse but, sincerely, I could care less!
It is my hope that on this thread and elsewhere we can preserve (for now) a small sampling of rotary-wing history for posterity and if there are but a handful of Rotorheads who enjoy this .. then that is good enough for me. Those for whom rotary-wing history is of no interest are clear to "Foxtrot Oscar" to another thread!
Yoyo, thanks for joining the discussion. I should just perhaps introduce Yoyo .. he is one of the legion of photographers I regularly pester for permissions to post on PPRuNe. As it happens several of the photographers have PPRuNe accounts by rarely dip-in to the conversation despite the fact that I always encourage them to do so.
On this occassion, celebrated Airliners.net and Air-Britain photograher Mick West (aka Yoyo) who shot G-AXMM in the photo above, has taken-up the invitation and joined our merry band .. welcome.
Thank you too for the very interesting tidbits on several past subjects .. most interesting.
My thanks to everyone who contributes to "Nostalgia" - what will make a good thread 'great' is if more readers contribute their stories of times past.
All are warmly welcome.
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Savoia
I wa referring to me being an anorak for keeping the badge all these years! Not you
Keep up your amazing work on this and many other threads - I for one find it fascinating.
D
I wa referring to me being an anorak for keeping the badge all these years! Not you
Keep up your amazing work on this and many other threads - I for one find it fascinating.
D
Thread Starter
More Whirling Winds ..
Bast0n, understood. Was empathising with the predicament of being so categorised .. even if it be self-categorisation!
More from HMS Victorious ..
Westland Whirlwind helicopters of 825 Naval Air Squadron on the flight deck of HMS Victorious c. 1963
More from HMS Victorious ..
Westland Whirlwind helicopters of 825 Naval Air Squadron on the flight deck of HMS Victorious c. 1963
Thread Starter
What! No Wessex-driving Crabs on PPRuNe!!!
Well, I'm sure there are but .. they seem to be very quiet!
These great shots courtesy of Peter Foster:
Westland Wessex Mk II XT680 of 84 Sqn traversing the southern coastline of Akrotiri, Cyprus in September 2002 (Photo: Peter Foster)
XT680 'bow shot' (Photo: Peter Foster)
This cab spent much of her life as one of the RAF's yellow SAR birds.
These great shots courtesy of Peter Foster:
Westland Wessex Mk II XT680 of 84 Sqn traversing the southern coastline of Akrotiri, Cyprus in September 2002 (Photo: Peter Foster)
XT680 'bow shot' (Photo: Peter Foster)
This cab spent much of her life as one of the RAF's yellow SAR birds.
BastOn, what is that piece of ironmongery attached to the port u/c /rear fuselage on all the aircraft in the last pic,please..?
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Sycamore
I really do not know being a Jungly and all that. It looks as though it could be a radar reflector, but perhaps there is an elderly pinger out there who can tell us............?
D
I really do not know being a Jungly and all that. It looks as though it could be a radar reflector, but perhaps there is an elderly pinger out there who can tell us............?
D
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I've emailed some pingers more elderly than myself (only flew the Whirlwind on 705 as a stude) - hope to have a reply for you idc but I suspect bast0n is correct.
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Savoia,
Thank you for posting that photograph of young Lt Roger Learoyd RM. Roger carried out his flying training at RAF Linton-on-Ouse and then RNAS Culdrose. He joined 848 NAS in Singapore in August 1961 and you are right that he was the first RM to train as a helicopter pilot. However, Lts Murphy and Nick Wise qualified before him.
In September 1964 Nick was appointed to form and command the first RM Unit Air Troop for 40 Cdo which was based at Burma Camp, Ulu Tiram, Malaya. With Lt Roger Learoyd and nine Naval Artificers led by CPO Techner, they assembled (literally) 2 brand new Augusta Bell 47s and embarked on HMS Albion in Portsmouth. They sailed to Singapore via Aden and disembarked to Burma Camp on 28th April 1965 delivering to 40 Cdo the first RM Air Troop.
Lieutenant Terence Murphy had actually first qualified as a pilot in 1958 and flew Seahawks on 806 RNAS on HMS Albion in 1960. He was was the first RM pilot to fly in a jet squadron in a carrier and complete a tour of duty.
Thank you for posting that photograph of young Lt Roger Learoyd RM. Roger carried out his flying training at RAF Linton-on-Ouse and then RNAS Culdrose. He joined 848 NAS in Singapore in August 1961 and you are right that he was the first RM to train as a helicopter pilot. However, Lts Murphy and Nick Wise qualified before him.
In September 1964 Nick was appointed to form and command the first RM Unit Air Troop for 40 Cdo which was based at Burma Camp, Ulu Tiram, Malaya. With Lt Roger Learoyd and nine Naval Artificers led by CPO Techner, they assembled (literally) 2 brand new Augusta Bell 47s and embarked on HMS Albion in Portsmouth. They sailed to Singapore via Aden and disembarked to Burma Camp on 28th April 1965 delivering to 40 Cdo the first RM Air Troop.
Lieutenant Terence Murphy had actually first qualified as a pilot in 1958 and flew Seahawks on 806 RNAS on HMS Albion in 1960. He was was the first RM pilot to fly in a jet squadron in a carrier and complete a tour of duty.
Thread Starter
SB: Thanks for filling-in the blanks. 
Here's an RM driver undergoing training at Culdrose in '65. Sadly I don't have any names:
A Royal Marine undergoes training in a Royal Navy Hiller 12 at RNAS Culdrose in March 1965
Here's an RM driver undergoing training at Culdrose in '65. Sadly I don't have any names:
A Royal Marine undergoes training in a Royal Navy Hiller 12 at RNAS Culdrose in March 1965
Just hope they unhooked the blades before start...!
Taken from this description anything is possible!
This Westland Whirlwind is from 815 sqn off HMS ALBION, which appears to have sent her entire air wing ashore to HMAS ALBATROSS, at Nowra, during her 1959 visit.
Again, here are Kim Dunstan's notes giving details of this large and stately-looking helo:
'Westland Whirlwind: The Whirlwind HAS-7 helicopter was a British-built version of the Sikorsky ‘Chickasaw,’ produced by Westland Aircraft Ltd in the UK, and was used extensively by the Royal Navy in anti-submarine and search and rescue roles. Entering service in 1956, it had positions for pilot and co-pilot - and crew in the rear cabin. The Whirlwind had a 750 hp, Alvis Leonides Major 755, 14-cylinder, radial engine, giving it a range of 330 miles and speed of 109 mph. It was equipped with ASDIC and radar for anti-submarine work. Numerous variants were produced including one for the Royal Marines. More than 400 Whirlwinds were built and exported to many countries.
Photo: Kimberley Dunstan RAN [Ret'd], Melbourne, and kindly sent for the Unofficial RAN Centenary 1911-2011 Photostream.
Again, here are Kim Dunstan's notes giving details of this large and stately-looking helo:
'Westland Whirlwind: The Whirlwind HAS-7 helicopter was a British-built version of the Sikorsky ‘Chickasaw,’ produced by Westland Aircraft Ltd in the UK, and was used extensively by the Royal Navy in anti-submarine and search and rescue roles. Entering service in 1956, it had positions for pilot and co-pilot - and crew in the rear cabin. The Whirlwind had a 750 hp, Alvis Leonides Major 755, 14-cylinder, radial engine, giving it a range of 330 miles and speed of 109 mph. It was equipped with ASDIC and radar for anti-submarine work. Numerous variants were produced including one for the Royal Marines. More than 400 Whirlwinds were built and exported to many countries.
Photo: Kimberley Dunstan RAN [Ret'd], Melbourne, and kindly sent for the Unofficial RAN Centenary 1911-2011 Photostream.
Last edited by John Eacott; 5th Jan 2012 at 00:52.
H-19's were also called "Ricochet's"....as they sometimes resembled same as they skipped along the surface trying to get airborne....over powered they were not!
Running takeoffs...a common practice borne of necessity....could become great fun when the Nose Gear(s) took up a bad case of Shimmy....which killed off the acceleration and left you in a positionn where the runway got shorter and your speed and height stayed constan.
Running takeoffs...a common practice borne of necessity....could become great fun when the Nose Gear(s) took up a bad case of Shimmy....which killed off the acceleration and left you in a positionn where the runway got shorter and your speed and height stayed constan.
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WW7
Whilst doing wet dinghy drill at RNAS Brawdy in 1968 I was winched out of the 'oggin by 'Boss' Spelling in a WW7. It is very depressing to see the winch operator winding in the winch with me (200lbs in those days) on the end of the wire and the aircraft gradually being pulled into the water. I finally came clear with all four wheels in the water.
Later - during Basic Flying Training I had the pleasure of flying the WW7 - good fun and great to have one of the first generation military helos in your logbook.
G.
Later - during Basic Flying Training I had the pleasure of flying the WW7 - good fun and great to have one of the first generation military helos in your logbook.
G.
Thread Starter
More Whirling Winds ..
A Westland Whirlwind Mk10 helicopter of RAF Coastal Command demonstrates the double lift rescue technique somewhere off the coast of Britian in 1963. This photograph used to illustrate a 1964 Ministry of Defence White Paper
I must say that Geoffers' description of the Whirlwind winching itself towards the sea was quite amusing and, given the proximity of the craft (above) to the water I dare say that something similar might be going on although, presumably, the Mk 10 may have had a little more power than the 7?
One wonders what the next move would be on the part of the crew if, say, they managed to barely winch a survivor out of the water but were unable to deliver any further performance. Perhaps the driver would nose forward dragging the rescue fodder along the sea like a Wallis bomb until translational lift occurred! Lol, what fun times they must have been!
The Suez Crisis
Operation Musketeer 1956: Men wounded in operations were given treatment in the well equipped sick bays and surgeries of British aircraft carriers. Here a wounded soldier is lifted from a Whirlwind helicopter after being transferred from the beaches at Port Said to the flight deck of HMS Eagle
Poor/marginal winching performance from the HAS7 was part and parcel of the training we received: Geoff's experience was quite normal. The Sproule Net was part of our syllabus as the method of recovering survivors unable to hook themselves onto the wire: double lifts in a HAS7 were not used. There is a previous thread on the Sproule, including my experience as a young snotty being politely asked to get the crewman's feet out of the water during the run in.
The Mk10 was far better powered, and although the photo is 'dramatic' such a winch height was standard. The double lift would not have needed any translational flight from the hover to accomplish a lift, although such procedures were still taught as a 'left over' practice when training on the HAS7, with the Alvis Leonides radial chugging away
The Mk10 was far better powered, and although the photo is 'dramatic' such a winch height was standard. The double lift would not have needed any translational flight from the hover to accomplish a lift, although such procedures were still taught as a 'left over' practice when training on the HAS7, with the Alvis Leonides radial chugging away
Thread Starter
Great stuff John!
On pages 52 and 53 PPRuNer Tjef treated us to a selection of Helicopter Hire (John Crewdson) nostalgia and clarified the uncertainty surrounding the identity of the 206 used in the filming of the James Bond film 'The Spy Who Loved Me' where the late John Crewdson flew wearing a wig!
'The Spy Who Loved Me' was filmed in 1976 which, at the time, placed BAML with Somerton Rayner Helicopters (or as my godfather would say .. Summertime Reindeer!) but, presumably, Crewdson had an arrangement with the Major to use the craft.
BAML's history begins with her being registered in the US as N7844S and then being shipped to the UK where she was bought by Mann's in 1972. 'Summertime Reindeer' then bought her the following year selling her on to Blue Star Shipping in 1983.
In 1986 she was bought by Peter Scott Agriculture of Pontefract in Yorkshire (I do miss the licorice 'Pontefract Cakes' I used to buy from the tuck shop when schooling in the UK) and finally to Heliscott in 1990 under whose stewardship she came to her demise on 30th May 2003 when the craft apparently suffered a loss of tail rotor effectiveness during a filming sortie in Northumberland.
An excerpt from the accident report reads:
Somerton Rayner Helicopters Bell 206B G-BAML at Northampton's Cliftonville School on 10th September 1973 (Photo: Bill Rich)
On the day of this photo BAML was using the rugby grounds of Cliftonville School as a landing site to take guests on an aerial tour of the new expansion plans for Northampton.
On pages 52 and 53 PPRuNer Tjef treated us to a selection of Helicopter Hire (John Crewdson) nostalgia and clarified the uncertainty surrounding the identity of the 206 used in the filming of the James Bond film 'The Spy Who Loved Me' where the late John Crewdson flew wearing a wig!
Tjef2802 wrote: The 206 featured in the "Spy Who Loved Me" was G-BAML and filmed in Sardinia by the ill-fated G-AWAP.
BAML's history begins with her being registered in the US as N7844S and then being shipped to the UK where she was bought by Mann's in 1972. 'Summertime Reindeer' then bought her the following year selling her on to Blue Star Shipping in 1983.
In 1986 she was bought by Peter Scott Agriculture of Pontefract in Yorkshire (I do miss the licorice 'Pontefract Cakes' I used to buy from the tuck shop when schooling in the UK) and finally to Heliscott in 1990 under whose stewardship she came to her demise on 30th May 2003 when the craft apparently suffered a loss of tail rotor effectiveness during a filming sortie in Northumberland.
An excerpt from the accident report reads:
The helicopter was involved in relatively slow speed, low level aerial photography that involved itflying a straight track before turning right around a fixed structure of significant historical interest.The pilot carried out one practice run that was judged to be slightly too fast and too close to thestructure. The second attempt proceeded without incident until, when half way around the turn, thehelicopter began to yaw to the right.
Application of corrective left pedal was ineffective and as thehelicopter continued yawing right it descended. The rotation continued through several completerevolutions and it struck sloping ground at low forward speed rolling on to its right side. All threeoccupants were able to vacate the aircraft with only minor injuries. An engineering investigationfailed to find any technical fault that could have accounted for the accident. There was evidence,however, that the helicopter may have been operating in a part of the flight envelope where thesusceptibility to loss of tail rotor effectiveness was possible.
Two safety recommendations, promotingthe dissemination of literature relating to the loss of tail rotor effectiveness, have been made.
Application of corrective left pedal was ineffective and as thehelicopter continued yawing right it descended. The rotation continued through several completerevolutions and it struck sloping ground at low forward speed rolling on to its right side. All threeoccupants were able to vacate the aircraft with only minor injuries. An engineering investigationfailed to find any technical fault that could have accounted for the accident. There was evidence,however, that the helicopter may have been operating in a part of the flight envelope where thesusceptibility to loss of tail rotor effectiveness was possible.
Two safety recommendations, promotingthe dissemination of literature relating to the loss of tail rotor effectiveness, have been made.
Somerton Rayner Helicopters Bell 206B G-BAML at Northampton's Cliftonville School on 10th September 1973 (Photo: Bill Rich)
On the day of this photo BAML was using the rugby grounds of Cliftonville School as a landing site to take guests on an aerial tour of the new expansion plans for Northampton.
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Wonderful pictures!
The Sproule net was a good idea but it injured more people than it scooped up as unless you were VERY careful with your height control the leading edge metal bar clouted the poor survivor on the head. For this reason I only ever used it to recover bodies and so on to avoid the crewman having to do the dirty work. (When no boat available obviously)
Regarding power available WW7 versus WW9 - a clever chap at the garage door manufacturers in Yeovil removed almost exactly a ton of 750hp Leonides and replaced it with 328lbs of Gnome producing 1300hp! Who were happy bunnies at Culdrose when the changeover came. Power only limited by a red mark on the edge of the fuel flow guage! (Plus anti coll lights to flash away like the big boys).
David
Happy days indeed.
The Sproule net was a good idea but it injured more people than it scooped up as unless you were VERY careful with your height control the leading edge metal bar clouted the poor survivor on the head. For this reason I only ever used it to recover bodies and so on to avoid the crewman having to do the dirty work. (When no boat available obviously)
Regarding power available WW7 versus WW9 - a clever chap at the garage door manufacturers in Yeovil removed almost exactly a ton of 750hp Leonides and replaced it with 328lbs of Gnome producing 1300hp! Who were happy bunnies at Culdrose when the changeover came. Power only limited by a red mark on the edge of the fuel flow guage! (Plus anti coll lights to flash away like the big boys).
David
Happy days indeed.
Thread Starter
1960 De Havilland Engine Company advert stating: "Gnome ordered into quantity production by the British Ministry of Aviation"