Hearing problems and flying the S92
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The Belgian Police use CEPs because of the threat of loosing their hearing but they are used in combination with wearing a helmet.
I believe the helmet CEP combo is the way forward and if you can't have the CEPs at least have a helmet because that's is what is stopping the noise getting into your head.... This what I have garnered.
At the moment you don't see to be able to buy CEPs in the UK which fit under the helemet and plug into the helmet because Headset Services have given up on the one's they offered because they could not stand the abuse of wear and tear.
The Danes use these they will be on my shopping list next.
I believe the helmet CEP combo is the way forward and if you can't have the CEPs at least have a helmet because that's is what is stopping the noise getting into your head.... This what I have garnered.
At the moment you don't see to be able to buy CEPs in the UK which fit under the helemet and plug into the helmet because Headset Services have given up on the one's they offered because they could not stand the abuse of wear and tear.
The Danes use these they will be on my shopping list next.
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Interesting news snippet in the corner of this week's show dailys:
I/C
Sikorsky S-92 helicopters to receive new Rockwell Collins display
Rockwell Collins Feb. 25, 2014
The Sikorsky S-92 helicopter will feature new Rockwell Collins MFD-268P2B MFDs enabling growth to capabilities that will enhance situational awareness and flight safety...
...Benefits of the new MFD-268P2B include:
• Greater than 14 decibel reduction in acoustic noise
Rockwell Collins Feb. 25, 2014
The Sikorsky S-92 helicopter will feature new Rockwell Collins MFD-268P2B MFDs enabling growth to capabilities that will enhance situational awareness and flight safety...
...Benefits of the new MFD-268P2B include:
• Greater than 14 decibel reduction in acoustic noise
I/C
Maybe I'm half deaf anyway, but I use an ANR headset which does the trick for me on the 92, having used CEPs in the military I much prefer ANR for comfort reasons alone. I could just cope with CEPs for a couple of hours sortie in the military, but I don't think I could cope with 7 hours offshore desperately trying to wiggle them into a comfortable position. Look forward to the new MFDs though 
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Decibels aren't additive, they're logarithmic, so this makes no sense at all.
You can't add or remove a component and say it adds or removes 14 dB under all conditions. An addition of 14 dB means you're multiplying the total sound energy by about 3.75 times.
It might add or remove 14 dB on ground with no engines running, but in flight it probably doesn't change measured dB level at all. If the thing adds 14 dB in flight, it would be like putting a third engine in your lap.
You can't add or remove a component and say it adds or removes 14 dB under all conditions. An addition of 14 dB means you're multiplying the total sound energy by about 3.75 times.
It might add or remove 14 dB on ground with no engines running, but in flight it probably doesn't change measured dB level at all. If the thing adds 14 dB in flight, it would be like putting a third engine in your lap.
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...but in flight it probably doesn't change measured dB level at all.
Having developed an analog ANR system for Sea King AEW that brought noise dose down to 84dB(A), in 2000 MoD completed the 2nd phase, Digital ANR, that brought it down to 73dB(A); well within the anticipated (at the time) legal limit. That limit was delayed by many years but I believe it is now in force.
Any ANR system has to be tailored for the noise in that particular aircraft; and very often that Mark of aircraft or a particular seat in the aircraft. So, the Analog ANR designed for Sea King happened to work, by sheer luck, in Sea Harrier; but was absolutely useless in Lynx. The damaging noise came from different sources and at different frequencies.
While damaging noise is the primary concern, annoying noise is too. In the Sea King, the radar transmitter whining away in your ear.
With the digital system, the idea was before flying you plug your helmet in to a work station and simply press the button appropriate to your aircraft/mark and, occasionally, seat. It blew an EPROM. (The pilot in AEW received a very different noise from Observers; both damaging). I understand this programme was halted after successful initial trials, but stand ready to be corrected.
Another feature of this programme was to avoid pages of mind boggling decibel notation, and simply express the performance in allowable flying hours per year. ANR allowed Mk2 aircrew to go from 59 (far too low) to 320 (about right). But 600 was required for the ASaC Mk7. Litigation you see.
More recently, I've had cause to speak to Bose about their system. It is far too simplistic. Like most, it is a simple broadband noise reducer, which leaves aircrew short on audio cues. That is fine in the back of an armoured vehicle or for passengers in the aircraft, but not aircrew who rely on speech intelligibility and resistance to fatigue. The speech intelligibilty tests and trials were very complex and comprehensive.
My recommendation. Always ask if the system you are considering has been cleared for your aircraft.
An oddball.... In addition to it being an Aircrew Equipment Assembly, with ANR, especially aircraft powered, the helmet becomes part of the comms sub-system. It sits within the TEMPEST boundary, if you're flying such a beast. What ANR also does is expose design weaknesses in other areas; typically the quality of audio amplifiers in the intercom and the transducers in existing helmets. On the latter, the ones MoD used cost about £10 each; the best were French at about £1k each. MoD resisted.....but you get what you pay for. Interesting topic.
Any ANR system has to be tailored for the noise in that particular aircraft; and very often that Mark of aircraft or a particular seat in the aircraft. So, the Analog ANR designed for Sea King happened to work, by sheer luck, in Sea Harrier; but was absolutely useless in Lynx. The damaging noise came from different sources and at different frequencies.
While damaging noise is the primary concern, annoying noise is too. In the Sea King, the radar transmitter whining away in your ear.
With the digital system, the idea was before flying you plug your helmet in to a work station and simply press the button appropriate to your aircraft/mark and, occasionally, seat. It blew an EPROM. (The pilot in AEW received a very different noise from Observers; both damaging). I understand this programme was halted after successful initial trials, but stand ready to be corrected.
Another feature of this programme was to avoid pages of mind boggling decibel notation, and simply express the performance in allowable flying hours per year. ANR allowed Mk2 aircrew to go from 59 (far too low) to 320 (about right). But 600 was required for the ASaC Mk7. Litigation you see.
More recently, I've had cause to speak to Bose about their system. It is far too simplistic. Like most, it is a simple broadband noise reducer, which leaves aircrew short on audio cues. That is fine in the back of an armoured vehicle or for passengers in the aircraft, but not aircrew who rely on speech intelligibility and resistance to fatigue. The speech intelligibilty tests and trials were very complex and comprehensive.
My recommendation. Always ask if the system you are considering has been cleared for your aircraft.
An oddball.... In addition to it being an Aircrew Equipment Assembly, with ANR, especially aircraft powered, the helmet becomes part of the comms sub-system. It sits within the TEMPEST boundary, if you're flying such a beast. What ANR also does is expose design weaknesses in other areas; typically the quality of audio amplifiers in the intercom and the transducers in existing helmets. On the latter, the ones MoD used cost about £10 each; the best were French at about £1k each. MoD resisted.....but you get what you pay for. Interesting topic.
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Lost medical due to tinnitus and NIHL - S92
Hi
I would like to hear from anyone who has lost their medical due to tinnitus and/or NIHL flying the S92. I am trying to determine how prevalent the condition is and how pilots have dealt with the aftermath. Thanks
I would like to hear from anyone who has lost their medical due to tinnitus and/or NIHL flying the S92. I am trying to determine how prevalent the condition is and how pilots have dealt with the aftermath. Thanks
the more info You give 'em the more power they have to use against You 
Wify, can I suggest that as a new poster with little in your profile and no detail of the background in your post, you might struggle to get a worthwhile set of replies.
The red 'Journalist' warning lamp will be lit in most cockpits.
The red 'Journalist' warning lamp will be lit in most cockpits.
I find this interesting, as I've had the condition for 30 years+ (working in industrial environments, flying rotary/fixed, racing motocross, rock concerts, etc.). It's only noticeable when the ambient noise level is way down, but completely imperceptible in a cockpit. In the medical examiner's quiet area, I can still hear his hearing test. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to mask the wife's voice. 
How did this lead to the loss of a medical? In other words, how does it prevent you from performing flight crew duties?
How did this lead to the loss of a medical? In other words, how does it prevent you from performing flight crew duties?
Last edited by rotorfan; 14th Feb 2022 at 00:37.
I find this interesting, as I've had the condition for 30 years+ (working in industrial environments, flying rotary/fixed, racing motocross, rock concerts, etc.). It's only noticeable when the ambient noise level is way down, but completely imperceptible in a cockpit. In the medical examiner's quite area, I can still hear his hearing test. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to mask the wife's voice. How did this lead to the loss of a medical? In other words, how does it prevent you from performing flight crew duties?
How did this lead to the loss of a medical? In other words, how does it prevent you from performing flight crew duties?Join Date: Aug 2016
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Not a current pilot but an enthusiast and with many hearing probs due to playing live music for years.
I now must wear moulded earplugs even in the car. Cuts out all the clatter and makes speech etc and radio comms very easy to hear but you have to turn it up a bit to penetrated the plugs...works a charm.
Hope that's of some help to anyone.
I now must wear moulded earplugs even in the car. Cuts out all the clatter and makes speech etc and radio comms very easy to hear but you have to turn it up a bit to penetrated the plugs...works a charm.
Hope that's of some help to anyone.