EC130 Corner

[myskyheli]

Thanks very much VP. Most helpfull (as in the past).

Still doesn't answer my initial question though, has anyone done much lifting with the 130, and any feedback (vs the 350 from the right)?

Nubian, sorry if I came accross a little "unshaved"! Have just been very frustrated trying to get accurate info on this a/c as we have very few of them here in OZ. And i'd love to pick up the phone to "the very helpfull frenchmen in our eurocopter office here", but you obviously haven't experienced their customer service here nor the speed with which the snail delivers the message. And don't start me on my experience with management or c & t types. (Sorry, i'll buy you a hypothetical drink, - cheers)

Thanks again for the feedback. Waiting...

[RVDT]

Pick up the phone and call your poor cousins to the East.

I think there are about 20 B4's in NZ. Whether they bother to sling with them is another question but more likely than most they will have.

Mind you, there also about 15 B3's amongst other types, so why would you bother using a B4!

Start at the NZ CAA web site aircraft registry.

[Ian Corrigible]

myskyheli,

Talked to an EC contact last night: the 1,350 kg swing is no longer offered, and will not be certified. I guess it was considered at one time but then quietly dropped.

I/C

[SuperF]

there are a few B4's here in NZ, but very few people sling with them. mostly they are used on private ops, charter or tourist ops. the guys i can think of that run them are advanced flight in Auckland, pretty much all private and charter work, over the top in QT on tourist work, i think North Shore Heli in Auckland might have access to a few, and lowe walker in Napier.

the last one did some ag work with theirs, only spreading urea, not spraying... its part owned by a farmer, so thought they may as well give their pilot something else to do, and he had the experience so why not. Pretty sure the only B4 in NZ with a hook, vaguely remember he said it was good for a ton without too much trouble. thats with all the VIP interior still in it, air con on, about an hour gas, go to work...

[TukTuk BoomBoom]

The main issue with the EC130 is the ski basket vs hook issue. Designed by Eurocopter as a tourist machine the option is for either a ski basket or hook not both at the same time.
Major flaw

[Rigidhead]

Tuk Tuk,
I think you will find that the basket is a Dart design rather than EC.
There is a company in Calgary called Aero Design that holds an STC
for AS 350 baskets and I believe is working on one for the EC 130
that is compatible with the hook/swing.

On a side note, while the aircraft definitely got it's start with big tour
operations, I think it is seeing more and more utility applications due to
it's cabin size (seating capacity) power and flexibility.
(Remember the 206 being too pretty for utility work vs. the 47?)

Regards,

Rigidhead

[Nubian]

Myskyheli,

No worries, mate! I can't say I was Mr. Diplomatic either
Either way, good luck with the B4 when it arrives


Tuktuk,

Dart Aerospace ltd. has the STC #SH94-14 and with Part #D130-701-043 'Heli-utility-basket', it is approved for both things installed at the same time with some reduced load-capasity on the hook though.
Part #D130-701-041 is not compatible, so then it is as you say either/or.

Can be found on their page(http://pdart.dyndns.org:3585/sites/P...701_101005.pdf), and dates from April this year, so a fairly recent mod.

Cheers and an early Happy X-mas

[Brilliant Stuff]

FYI
There is a swish EC130 G-WCKD being prepared for customer acceptance at ECUK.

[theaceofblades]

EC-130B4

Hi Chaps, I couldn't find an existing thread on this subject so hence I've posted a new one. Can anybody with experience of the EC-130 please share their opinions ?

In particluar, if this machine is in 7 seat VIP config would it be similar to the EC-120 in that 7 burleys blokes and full fuel would be an absolute no no ? Does it have sufficient power for 7 people and luggage ?

Does it have any other disadvantages worthy of note ?

Also what is the general communitys views with regards this machine as a single engine aircraft capable of carrying 7 people ? Is there something better with the same capacity but still single engine ?

Your thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Ace

[ECB4]

MAUW

MAUW 2427 kg

A/c Empty weight 1550kg or more depending on extras.

Full fuel 420kg.

"Burlys," bags, whatever it's a numbers game.

Don't put all that weight up front and try anything downwind.

They vibrate.

You need something bigger unless talking 20 minute hops.

[ECB4]

Alternatives

Upon further reflection.

Ditch the "Burlys"

Take the "WAGS". Put their handbags in the rear locker (C of G)

Plenty of room in the side lockers for light and fluffly stuff (assuming they have been shopping) on the way home.

Oh and the pilot will need to be of a physical nature other than "Burly"

[EBCAU]

"Does it have sufficient power for 7 people and luggage ?"

Absolutely, if you are still within the allowable MAUW.
The machine is not lacking in power generally, which is why there is a temptation to load more into it. If you stay within the figures mentioned by ECB4 you can do pretty much anything if you're not in high DA.

[G-SASY]

EC130B4 Bags of Power

Not sure if you are still after users comments on EC130s??

I own and fly an EC130 Stylence out of London G-SASY. I bought it new, after going to numerous trade shows, HeliExpo, Paris Airshow, Farborough etc. looking for the ideal private helicopter.

It is without peer as a modern, comfortable aircraft where all pax have an excellent view. The large cabin has 3 in front and 4 in back, facing forward on raised seats that give very clear view over the heads of those in front. Its like a flying greenhouse. The only competitor really is a Bell 407 which looks (and is) a 1960s riveted pre-obsolete looking thing. Worst thing about the 407 is (like the Longranger), all but one passenger are jammed in the back facing each other, and can only see out the sides. The EC130 has more power and is lighter than the 407. I regularly carry full fuel and 7 people. Last weekend I flew into and out of Paris Issy le Moulineaux which is very steep departure, surrounded by buildings, but the EC130 has so much power (870hp) that it can climb fast fully laden. I have done all variations of C of G cals and she is hard to put out of unless you are carrying a football team.

Not sure about hooks, but def available to 1,200kg from memory. Dart Helicopter have "squirrel cheeks" bulging baggage extenders and a long range fuel tank with STCs that increase endurance from 3.5hrs to 4.4hrs.

One thing you should know is that the main rotor, gearbox and engine are AS350B3, and are optimised for hot high humid heavy operation. It is "over rotored and overpowered at sea level, and optimised I am told for flight at 12000ft. The true fuel consumption is a regular 180lt\hr at 120kts at sea level, less higher. Yes they say the cruise is 130kts and you can but 120 feels more all day. I did one trip at 14,500ft (really confused French ATC) and achieved fuel consumption of 130lt/hr flying a leg of 370nm with 20 min reserve. What a hoot.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Roderick

[Brilliant Stuff]

How smooth is she when you fly it empty.
I recently was told she was mainly designed to fly smooth all up at 90kts. Hence the question.

[puntosaurus]

I spent about 20 mins under the hood in an EC130 the other day at 120Kt, with one other on board and she was smooooth. Which is more than I can say for my flying !

[G-SASY]

Smooth EC130B4

The EC130B4 is very smooth up to about 125kts. At the recommended "fast cruise" of 130kts there is a low frequency oscillation, I guess you could call it a vibration, which develped when I fited emergency floats. Overall it is an extremely quiet and smooth helicopter, I am told the quietest light helicopter on the market, and the only one allowed to fly the Grand Canyon for that reason. I don't think there is anything magical about 90 kts, thats slow, and no advantage.
Cheers

[EBCAU]

With all due respect to G-SASY I do have to disagree with some of his claims - unless there have been some major improvements to the EC130 over the years. I do not know what a "Stylence" refers to, unless it is a new lighter, faster, quieter model I have not come across.


The differences I found between the "Stylence" and those I flew are:

• Heavier than B407 by 177 kg in general, you can find that anywhere on the internet.
• The several that I have flown were only the 846 hp varient, I didn't know they have increased the power available to 870 hp
• The only time I could get 130 knots, straight & level, was during track and balance runs with self and engineer in front. Without the weight of two up in front the stick is too far forward in fast flight and the mast limit light would illuminate. Did heaps of T&B runs too - the machines vibrate so much. I accept 122 kts as a max cruise speed and it would be around that figure with little differrence with AUW. I think the wide cabin produced a top speed influenced by form drag rather than AUW.
• Full fuel and seven up? Seven lightweights then. W&B is always an issue. A little bird once told me that they will fly very well with seven full size pax, and all their gear, but that's just a little bird talking .
• The sales people will tell you it is the quietest helicopter but I suspect that they have never heard a NOTAR machine fly over because it was so quiet. I actually had complaints about the extra noise from the B4 but I dismiss that as the fact that it sounds different and so attracts attention. Nobody can tell me that it is a really quiet helicopter when you are in the portside forward quadrant as a listener. The different noise signature does have its good points. You can land close to a herd of cattle and many of them wont bother to get up. Horses, including the racing variety, similar. Sheep? There's another story. They hate it. But who cares about sheep?

[arismount]

EC130B4 Engine/FADEC Troubles--??

I formerly worked for an operator doing U.S. HEMS in the EC130. The med crews like the aircraft and I liked the way it flew, I was especially impressed by the Arriel engine and the dual FADEC/EBCAU redundancy.

Before I moved on I flew the aircraft around 400 hours and never had any serious problems. Now I hear that operators are starting to report incidents of engine decels (loss of N1) in flight that have resulted in forced landings. Anyone have any information or links on this? Thanks.

[hole.shot]

help

is there any way that i could get hold of the STC no for EC130 cargo swing from co. ONBOARD? . I tried searching for it at www.faa.gov but to no avail.

[McGowan]

EBCAU, agree with you. We recently took bought one and I now have about 70 or so hours in it.
A good machine for us, private ops, and does it comfortably.
But 7 up and full fuel, not unless 6 of them are multiple amputies. With full fuel and me, I can carry 378 kg of bodies and gear.
I like the machine now that I am starting to feel comfortable in it and the more I fly it, the more I like it.
It does get up and dance at 2427kg which is all the better, the VMED is very good and the fact it has dual hydraulics and dual FADEC plus the back up just makes my life so mush easier.
As yet we haven't had any maintenance issues, due for a 100 hourly next week so will see.