Robinson R44
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Lu,
Regarding your 10/23 message that you have only the occasional consulting job to keep you occupied, have you given any thought to contacting Bill the owner of Just Helicopters,and finding out if his web site is still for sale?
Hover Lover
Regarding your 10/23 message that you have only the occasional consulting job to keep you occupied, have you given any thought to contacting Bill the owner of Just Helicopters,and finding out if his web site is still for sale?
Hover Lover
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To: Hover Lover,
Thanks but no thanks. If you have followed my postings on Just Helicopters under the name Poonette you would know that I was torn to pieces. Bill had to come to my aid on several occasions. When Bill first closed the site prior to entering the hospital he severely chastized the individuals that spouted so much venom towards me and many other participants. I don't think I have the patience to try to monitor and control that environment. It was Helidriver that suggested that I start my own forum which I did. However, I had to purge my computer of the love bug and in the process of uploading Windows 98 I lost the web address for that forum. It was then that I came over to PPruNe. Helidriver stated I would be treated much better here. He was right in spades. True there have been a lot of disagreements but that is expected but there were no attacks or name calling. Now after that confession I'll tell you the real reason I don't want to buy Just Helicopters. My wife would shoot me. She is constantly on my case for spending so much time on the computer. What with writing technical reports and running my model business most of my time is spent doing exactly what I am doing right now.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 23 October 2000).]
Thanks but no thanks. If you have followed my postings on Just Helicopters under the name Poonette you would know that I was torn to pieces. Bill had to come to my aid on several occasions. When Bill first closed the site prior to entering the hospital he severely chastized the individuals that spouted so much venom towards me and many other participants. I don't think I have the patience to try to monitor and control that environment. It was Helidriver that suggested that I start my own forum which I did. However, I had to purge my computer of the love bug and in the process of uploading Windows 98 I lost the web address for that forum. It was then that I came over to PPruNe. Helidriver stated I would be treated much better here. He was right in spades. True there have been a lot of disagreements but that is expected but there were no attacks or name calling. Now after that confession I'll tell you the real reason I don't want to buy Just Helicopters. My wife would shoot me. She is constantly on my case for spending so much time on the computer. What with writing technical reports and running my model business most of my time is spent doing exactly what I am doing right now.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 23 October 2000).]
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I think Lu's efforts are entirely laudable and he is obviously devoting a lot of time and effort in his quest. I do feel though, that he is arguing more than one point at a time which is clouding his original intention. What does the crash mentioned above have to do with his report? Why splah the names of two dead people all over the internet? Generally, wazzing around at very low level when inexperienced, is a bad thing. They may very well have had the same outcome whilst flying a Schweizer or Enstrom.
Another thread deals with low Nr in autorotation, which many respondents have suggested may be due to excessive flat pitch and may need checking. That's pretty nomal stuff which applies equally to the 212 (all types of course), so why does Lu need to imply that those who made that suggestion are being hypocritical after responding to his other thread about the design 'flaws'? What is the problem he is espousing? the 18 degrees of right cyclic in the cruise, the excessive flapping that results from sideslip, the collective rigging procedures, mixing flapping hinges with a teetering head or the mast bumping that can happen (hardly uniquely) under low g?
I agree that the R22 is less than forgiving but hope this is not a crusade driven by obsession. How many Cessnas and Pipers crash every month with broken nose wheel struts after heavy/bounced landings? A hell of a lot, does that mean they have a design flaw?
Anyway, full marks for perserverance and I hope you get a satisfactory answer from the NTSB.
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Another day in paradise
Another thread deals with low Nr in autorotation, which many respondents have suggested may be due to excessive flat pitch and may need checking. That's pretty nomal stuff which applies equally to the 212 (all types of course), so why does Lu need to imply that those who made that suggestion are being hypocritical after responding to his other thread about the design 'flaws'? What is the problem he is espousing? the 18 degrees of right cyclic in the cruise, the excessive flapping that results from sideslip, the collective rigging procedures, mixing flapping hinges with a teetering head or the mast bumping that can happen (hardly uniquely) under low g?
I agree that the R22 is less than forgiving but hope this is not a crusade driven by obsession. How many Cessnas and Pipers crash every month with broken nose wheel struts after heavy/bounced landings? A hell of a lot, does that mean they have a design flaw?
Anyway, full marks for perserverance and I hope you get a satisfactory answer from the NTSB.
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Another day in paradise
Magneto drop on the R44
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The springs in the clutchactuator get into a little "frenzy" at flight idle on the ground and breaks the little microswitches (that can only be replaced at you guessed it RHC. So to aviod having people sit on the ground at 102% for long periods the check should be done at 75%.
PS: I would much rather fly a R22\44 than the AS 365 I'm stuck in now. when it comes down (to it) small things selfdestruct with much less ferocity.
PS: I would much rather fly a R22\44 than the AS 365 I'm stuck in now. when it comes down (to it) small things selfdestruct with much less ferocity.
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I actually havn't flown an R44, but on discussion with fellow R22 drivers a few years back, a comment came out about the cooling fan cracking at full RPM if there is any decent vibration involved with the mag check. It was not uncommon to find cracks in the fans and the comment seemed to have some merrit to.
Having said all that I don't know how true it all was.
P.S. I like the springy idea above. Sounds like he actually knows what he is talking about - where as everything I have learnt usualy involves a lot of alcohol and tall stories.
Cheers
Having said all that I don't know how true it all was.
P.S. I like the springy idea above. Sounds like he actually knows what he is talking about - where as everything I have learnt usualy involves a lot of alcohol and tall stories.
Cheers
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R44 governor disengagement
Has anyone ever experienced this? A friend flew over a nest of high - power RF transmission antennas recently, and, the way he describes it, heard "organ - like sounds" over the headset. He then had an immediate low rrpm warning, lowered the collective and the discovered that he had a lot of throttle movement available - the governor had disengaged. He was told that there has been mention of this happening before. Very interesting. Any comments?
(I don't have precise details of the type of transmission energy of the antennas)
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(I don't have precise details of the type of transmission energy of the antennas)
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The robinson POH has a safety notice for flying near broadcast towers.
It says that early indications of a high power radio field include strong interference with the intercom system and radio receivers. Then it says that increasing field strength can cause random illumination of warning lights and erratic governor and tachometer operation.
This sounds exactly like what your friend flew into. The POH also warns that many pilots are caught tuning the radios trying to get rid of the interference when the governor goes nuts.
[This message has been edited by baranfin (edited 01 July 2001).]
It says that early indications of a high power radio field include strong interference with the intercom system and radio receivers. Then it says that increasing field strength can cause random illumination of warning lights and erratic governor and tachometer operation.
This sounds exactly like what your friend flew into. The POH also warns that many pilots are caught tuning the radios trying to get rid of the interference when the governor goes nuts.
[This message has been edited by baranfin (edited 01 July 2001).]
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Helicat,Good Morning to you
Here in the UK we are taught never to fly near or over HT.VHF,RT mast,s . beside that Radio waves are totally NO NO for your Testiculare's, not to mention the old grey stuff!!
Lu, as far as I can see most line checks here in UK are by B206 and Squirrel's.
My Regrads
Here in the UK we are taught never to fly near or over HT.VHF,RT mast,s . beside that Radio waves are totally NO NO for your Testiculare's, not to mention the old grey stuff!!
Lu, as far as I can see most line checks here in UK are by B206 and Squirrel's.
My Regrads
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Lu and all,
Slight confusion here - the original post refered to high power RF antenna, whereas high voltage power lines are something completely different. Although, there will be a reasonable magnetic field around power lines and some low power RF interference, generally power lines are not much of a problem (except if you run into them!!!). RF transmitting antenna on the other hand, do emit substantial amounts of radio energy that can easily overwhelm sensitive electronics. A couple of years ago in an R22 I flew within sight of but not near a load of aerials on the way to Carlisle from Leeds in the UK and some strange broadcasts were picked up very clearly by my radio (over powering anything else). Nothing else was affected. I have also routed past Emley Moor UHF TV transmitter (which is at least a 1MegaWatt) in R22 and R44 but nothing affected - it very much depends on what frequencies are being transmitted, how and what power output, but the general advice to stay well clear is very good advice.
PS I find the clutch motor on the R22 interfers (whines) like mad on the radio
Slight confusion here - the original post refered to high power RF antenna, whereas high voltage power lines are something completely different. Although, there will be a reasonable magnetic field around power lines and some low power RF interference, generally power lines are not much of a problem (except if you run into them!!!). RF transmitting antenna on the other hand, do emit substantial amounts of radio energy that can easily overwhelm sensitive electronics. A couple of years ago in an R22 I flew within sight of but not near a load of aerials on the way to Carlisle from Leeds in the UK and some strange broadcasts were picked up very clearly by my radio (over powering anything else). Nothing else was affected. I have also routed past Emley Moor UHF TV transmitter (which is at least a 1MegaWatt) in R22 and R44 but nothing affected - it very much depends on what frequencies are being transmitted, how and what power output, but the general advice to stay well clear is very good advice.
PS I find the clutch motor on the R22 interfers (whines) like mad on the radio
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Rotor Nut,
On a little flight into Leeds from Egnh, whilst passing over the outskirts of Keighly leading into Baildon two of us each in a R22 I was acting as radio man and leading when something happened to both my radio and at the same time the compass went walkabout and left me guessing for the direction( not good viz) after about 2 mins everything was back to normal but left me feeling a little twitchy flying into Leeds airspace. Tech chaps did not know why and could not find anything wrong with the equipment on the R22, I also have heard the clutch on the Rad.
Safe Landings
On a little flight into Leeds from Egnh, whilst passing over the outskirts of Keighly leading into Baildon two of us each in a R22 I was acting as radio man and leading when something happened to both my radio and at the same time the compass went walkabout and left me guessing for the direction( not good viz) after about 2 mins everything was back to normal but left me feeling a little twitchy flying into Leeds airspace. Tech chaps did not know why and could not find anything wrong with the equipment on the R22, I also have heard the clutch on the Rad.
Safe Landings
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R44 Raven
Look, I love it. Best Robinson ever and an astoundingly great machine in its class. One point : there is no type conversion. Yet there are some major differences between the Astro and the Raven. For instance, the Raven has a hydraulics on/off switch above the pistol grip, adjacent to the frequency changer. Not easy to see - and very easy to move without realising it. Also, the hydraulic circuit-breaker doesn't actually operate the hydraulics. It provides power to the system which controls the hydraulics. This gave me an interesting wake-up call recently. The controls (cyclic and collective) went stiff.
I suspected hydraulic failure and reached for the cb. Pulled it - and the hydraulics came back on! Pushed it back and the hydraulics went off again. Then I noticed that the hyd switch was off...... no warning light to tell me that. All this would be solved witha simple type conversion. In the meantime - be aware as you jump from a "manual" Robinson to a "God that's the smoothest thing I ever flew" one.
Do car manufacturers provide switches for turning off power-assist steering? No. But if they did, there'd be a warning light. Why does a Robinson need a hydraulic on/off switch and why, when you have warning lights for everything, is there no hydraulic warning light ?
Can you fly it with hydraulics off ? The answer is yes - I did - close to the ground. But you'd enjoy arm-wrestling a JCB more
I suspected hydraulic failure and reached for the cb. Pulled it - and the hydraulics came back on! Pushed it back and the hydraulics went off again. Then I noticed that the hyd switch was off...... no warning light to tell me that. All this would be solved witha simple type conversion. In the meantime - be aware as you jump from a "manual" Robinson to a "God that's the smoothest thing I ever flew" one.
Do car manufacturers provide switches for turning off power-assist steering? No. But if they did, there'd be a warning light. Why does a Robinson need a hydraulic on/off switch and why, when you have warning lights for everything, is there no hydraulic warning light ?
Can you fly it with hydraulics off ? The answer is yes - I did - close to the ground. But you'd enjoy arm-wrestling a JCB more
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Don't even whisper an idea like that near the CAA!
The Raven is regarded as part of the R44 type. I believe that JAR-FCL does not regard it as a variant so formal difference training is not required. Do go and get some familiarisation training though.
Having said that most of what you need to know is in the POH/Flight Manual.
What you need is a ground review of the changes in the Raven, and a short training flight including simulated hydraulic failures. It would be worth getting your instructor to annotate the flight entry in your log book to confirm you had received the training. Many schools will want to see this, before hiring to you.
It does fly much better than the Astro.
The Raven is regarded as part of the R44 type. I believe that JAR-FCL does not regard it as a variant so formal difference training is not required. Do go and get some familiarisation training though.
Having said that most of what you need to know is in the POH/Flight Manual.
What you need is a ground review of the changes in the Raven, and a short training flight including simulated hydraulic failures. It would be worth getting your instructor to annotate the flight entry in your log book to confirm you had received the training. Many schools will want to see this, before hiring to you.
It does fly much better than the Astro.
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At my school we do "differences training" for the Raven. Takes about an hour on the ground and about half an hour in the air.
I believe the CAA originally announced their intention of demanding that the helicopter be modified to include a hydraulics-off warning light, but were talked out of it. Let's not go back there.
I believe the CAA originally announced their intention of demanding that the helicopter be modified to include a hydraulics-off warning light, but were talked out of it. Let's not go back there.
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t'aint: yeah, same thing here - I did an hour's differences training followed by a checkride and we did enough hydraulics off to make you sure you want to check it each time !
Hovering is quite tricky at first: the time constant is much slower so you end up chasing until you get used to it. Still think that if I had a real hydraulics failure I'd prefer to run it on.
I always assumed such training was mandatory, but sounds as though it's school-dependent.
As for the light: well, if the hydraulics go off, you'll know about it anyway, so not sure what extra benefit there would be. A hydraulic pressure gauge would be more useful: might give some warning of an impending problem.
Hovering is quite tricky at first: the time constant is much slower so you end up chasing until you get used to it. Still think that if I had a real hydraulics failure I'd prefer to run it on.
I always assumed such training was mandatory, but sounds as though it's school-dependent.
As for the light: well, if the hydraulics go off, you'll know about it anyway, so not sure what extra benefit there would be. A hydraulic pressure gauge would be more useful: might give some warning of an impending problem.
The need for a hydraulics off switch is presumably for pending hydraulics failure where you may have intermittent hydraulics (maybe during fluid loss), and the last thing you want is to be putting some juice on the stick making an input and have the servos kick in on you. Better none than some here and some there. I found hydraulics off no real drama, similar to the 206, and if you don't get too tense and fight it you can land it with no real difficulty in the hover or more easily with a gentle run on. Because a loss of electrical power fails to hydraulics on (like the 206) I find it makes it easy to diagnose any hydraulics malfunction quickly between an electrical switching problem or an actual hydraulics failure.
If they are going to mod anything on it, I reckon it should be an external power plug so you don't have to jump it with the panel folded over. I just hope Mr Robinson has to jump start his a few times to realise its a bit of a pain!!! Otherwise I reckon they are beut to fly.
If they are going to mod anything on it, I reckon it should be an external power plug so you don't have to jump it with the panel folded over. I just hope Mr Robinson has to jump start his a few times to realise its a bit of a pain!!! Otherwise I reckon they are beut to fly.
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headsethair,
The reason for the hydraulic switch is that it’s more common for one servo to fail than all of them at once; then it’ll be silky smooth in pitch and a gorilla in roll or something like that. Turn the hydraulics off and at least all controls act the same way in all axes!
You’d need to be a 17-stone weightlifter of the non-sensitive type not to notice your hydraulics had gone south, so a warning light would just be something else to go wrong. During the transition training for my first a/c with hydraulic controls (B206) we were told that the first step in a hydraulic failure was to slow down to recommended speed, then check the hydraulics switch, then do the CB-pulling thing. Most hydraulic problems in the 206 are caused by pilots putting clipboards etc. on the switch. This, BTW, is exactly the procedure for hydraulic failure in the R44.
The reason for the hydraulic switch is that it’s more common for one servo to fail than all of them at once; then it’ll be silky smooth in pitch and a gorilla in roll or something like that. Turn the hydraulics off and at least all controls act the same way in all axes!
You’d need to be a 17-stone weightlifter of the non-sensitive type not to notice your hydraulics had gone south, so a warning light would just be something else to go wrong. During the transition training for my first a/c with hydraulic controls (B206) we were told that the first step in a hydraulic failure was to slow down to recommended speed, then check the hydraulics switch, then do the CB-pulling thing. Most hydraulic problems in the 206 are caused by pilots putting clipboards etc. on the switch. This, BTW, is exactly the procedure for hydraulic failure in the R44.