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Old 26th Jul 2001, 23:38   #21 (permalink)
BIT
 
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Angel

methinks he doth protest too much
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Old 27th Jul 2001, 02:50   #22 (permalink)

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To: Speechless Two

I’m sorry you feel the way you do. Your perception of me is wrong. Please read my post on the 18-degree thread addressed to RW-1.

Regarding how long we have been in the aviation industry or being associated with aviation I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. I started in 1949 and if you want to include aviation-training courses in high school we can go back to 1945. At 16 I lied about my age and was in the Air National Guard as a Gunner on A-26 Invaders.
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Old 27th Jul 2001, 12:38   #23 (permalink)

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Good Morning Ppruners,

Despite being a regular contributor to this Forum I tend to read only when deep technical discussions are being discussed, I read and learn quiet a lot from most of the people who make comments, I feel that LZ and NL despite being from different age sphere's both have massive amounts of information and skill that us mere mortals could only dream of having, why then when some body is not quite happy with some statement or input from another person does it degenerate into a personal attack on the unfortunate contributor, if you are unable to see both sides of any discussion you do appear to be a little blinkered, but that dont mean you are totally wrong, What is wrong is the nasty comments that abound if some one can't see the contributors point or explanation.
Remember attitude is everything !!!
My Regards to you all
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Old 2nd Aug 2001, 00:16   #24 (permalink)
 
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I have been flying helicopters for over 15000 hrs, including nearly 1000 on the EH101. I have been very happy to do that because I did not think too much about mechanical or structural failures. I have been trained to react to emergencies, but only to the ones I can do something about.

Lu, I greatly admire your technical knowledge and I enjoy your comments. I am also glad that someone is looking after my safety.
However, if there is nothing I can do about a particular problem, then I try to ignore it. I am too old to find an other job, and yet too young to retire. Therefore if you can do something about safety that I can't, good. Otherwise, I do not really want to know.

BIT

You want to know what pilots think of the 101 ? Well, I love it. I was involved in the maturity program of the aircraft and wish I could fly it again. I did things with it that I had never done with any other aircraft. I flew PP8 and PP9, wich were not "new" flying machines. We flew nearly 6000 accident and incident free hours.As far as I am concerned, the a/c delivered what was required.

[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: Pat Gerard ]
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Old 3rd Aug 2001, 16:27   #25 (permalink)
 
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Well, can anyone make me an offer I can't refuse ?

I would love to fly it again.
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Old 4th Aug 2001, 01:13   #26 (permalink)
BIT
 
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Talking

Thanks for that Pat. I hope you et to fly it again and I'm glad you were happy with the EH101. Are there any RN or RAF Merlin operators with any comments?
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Old 23rd Aug 2003, 06:46   #27 (permalink)
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£300 million helicopter contract

Denmark announced today that it has selected the EH101 produced by AgustaWestland - a joint venture between GKN of the UK and Finmeccanica of Italy - to meet its multi-role search and rescue and troop transport requirements.
The order for 14 EH101s is valued at £300 million and is subject to satisfactory contract negotiations.

The EH101 was selected in a straight competition with the Sikorsky S-92 and NH Industries' NH90 to replace Denmark's long-serving fleet of Sikorsky S-61s.

According to a statement, an important element within the contract negotiations with Denmark will be the level of benefits accruing to Danish industry through industrial co-operation.
In October 2000 teaming agreements were signed with TERMA and Danish Aerotech to collaborate and further develop their existing business relationships.

As part of its commitment to Danish industry, AgustaWestland has already placed a number of contracts with Danish industry for the supply of a range of EH101 components including avionic floors and a recently placed contract for composite nose cap manufacture.

These contracts cover the requirements under current contractual obligations with the UK, Italian and Canadian Governments
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Old 9th Nov 2003, 02:42   #28 (permalink)
 
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Angel what about the aircraft ?

More and more you can see countries selecting new helicopters based on the workshare and not on performances...

I can perfectly understand there are political issues to consider when selecting a new helicopter for your MoD, but in my opinion it should not prevent someone from selecting the best helicopter.
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Old 9th Nov 2003, 21:08   #29 (permalink)
 
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Bockywocky:

Care to elaborate on your email - I for one do not quite understand your point.
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Old 9th Nov 2003, 21:26   #30 (permalink)
 
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Think he means that the value of offset work is given too high a weighting in the overall rating of the proposal . A helicopter that is technicaly superior may not be selected if not enough work is given to local suppliers. In the Canadian selection process ( now about 15 years old ) I believe to be compliant you have to offer a certain level of regional industrial benefits . So in this case it should not be a factor in the decision as it is a simple question of whether the bid is complaint or not with no extra credit given ( in theory) for any work above the minimum required by the contract.
It remains to be seen if that will be the case.
http://www.dnd.ca/admmat/mhp/docs_e.html

for copies of all Docs for canadian MHP program.
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Old 9th Nov 2003, 23:51   #31 (permalink)
 
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Often the amount of offset is a pass fail, but the quality of the offset is usually a graded value. If you offer to place low tech work, it is worth less than high tech growth work. If you have hard contracts, it is worth more than if you promise to find some.

That being said, the Danish competition was held almost 3 years ago (actually, the Danes gave a quick look at the field and selected the EH.) The S-92 was years away from certification, and therefore judged at that time as a risk. Nothing else in the field came close to the EH-101 or S-92 (typographical mistake edited out! thanks heedem!!) in cabin size or range.
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Old 10th Nov 2003, 01:41   #32 (permalink)
 
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New helicopters are so impressive that the minimum qualifying bid is quite likely an awesome machine. If my government is spending millions on a purchase, I think it would be nice if as much of those millions as possible was spent in my neighbourhood. Government spending only stimulates the economy if it's kept in the country (unless there's trade agreements...won't go there).

Nick, what do you mean by comparing EH101 and S76 wrt cabin size? Two nice machines, but completely different on that front.

Matthew.
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Old 10th Nov 2003, 02:57   #33 (permalink)
 
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Actually, heedm, your government IS spending millions on the same helicopter. Canada has a EH101 doing SAR. I understand these aircraft can be as much or more than $47 Million each (depending on configuration). I don't see any subcontract work for EH101 production in Canada, but I could be wrong.
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Old 10th Nov 2003, 03:34   #34 (permalink)
 
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RDRickster, I was speaking more generally. The requirement to include local benefits isn't a bad thing when you consider that every complaint bidder offers excellent product.

I'm familiar with the SAR helicopters here. The project does have Canadian content, although I can't say how much nor how important it was in the bid.

Currently, there's a project to replace our Navy's helicopters. It's intimate with the politics which appears to be slowing things down. There's definitely a lot of posturing occuring with manufacturers lining up Canadian content as well as aboriginal Canadian content.
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Old 10th Nov 2003, 04:30   #35 (permalink)

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Thumbs up 18-degree offset. Oops, wrong offset

It would seem to me that every time they want to sell an EH-101 or any other aircraft or military systems they offer an offset to sweeten the deal. If this continues the parent company that designed and “built” the system would eventually cease building parts and subsystem elements because they have farmed all of the work out to prospective buyers. They in the process loose a lot of jobs that used to build those offset elements and the builder then becomes an integration contractor.

If they run out of items to offset then they will start to farm out major structural elements which further exacerbates the lost job situation and the company could collapse due to expensive overhead with nothing to support the facilities.

They used to joke at Douglas aircraft that they lost money on every DC-9 they sold. Then some wag suggested that to compensate they could sell them in large numbers. Substitute B-7X7 or any other new design.

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Old 10th Nov 2003, 05:51   #36 (permalink)
 
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On Cormorant , I know Fleet ( RIP) had some parts they were manufacturing . Bristol in Winnipeg got some work as did Acro and Wescam The lions share seems to be with IMP who are actually providing maintenance support for the fleet.
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Old 30th Mar 2004, 13:44   #37 (permalink)
 
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Post Merlin crash

BBC

Helicopter crashes at navy base

A helicopter has crashed at a Royal Navy base in Cornwall

The crash happened near the station's control tower
A helicopter has crashed at a Royal Navy base in Cornwall.
The incident happened at RNAS Culdrose, near Helston, on Tuesday afternoon. A Merlin helicopter crashed near the control tower.

It is not known how many people have been injured. Ambulances and two fire engines have been sent to the base.

Navy paramedics are at the scene and the main road to the Lizard has been closed at Helston.

More soon...

__________________________________

Hope everyone's OK.....
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Old 30th Mar 2004, 15:04   #38 (permalink)
 
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Just heard all the crew got out okay.
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Old 30th Mar 2004, 15:13   #39 (permalink)

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3583409.stm
Helicopter crashes at navy base

The crash happened near the base's control tower
A helicopter has crashed at a Royal Navy base in Cornwall.
The incident happened at RNAS Culdrose, near Helston, at about 1500 BST on Tuesday when a Merlin helicopter hit the ground near the control tower.

One man was trapped in the aircraft and flown to hospital. Four other people were slightly hurt in the incident.

The £60m anti-submarine aircraft, which is thought to belong to 824 Squadron, had just taken off on a training flight.

Road closed

Two civilian fire engines were sent to the base but were not required. Civilian ambulances were also called to assist navy paramedics.

The main road from Helston to the Lizard has been closed as a precaution.

The Merlin, which was first introduced in 1997, normally carries a crew of three comprising a pilot, observer and aircrewman.

The 22.8 metre-long aircraft has a rotor diameter of 18.6 metres, weighs 14,600 kilograms and has an anticipated service life 35 to 40 years.

RNAS Culdrose is responsible for training helicopter pilots, observers and aircrewmen in search and rescue, weather forecasting and aircraft handling.
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Old 30th Mar 2004, 15:54   #40 (permalink)
 
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Glad everyone is safe.

But £60 million each..........
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