Things you consider before a flight?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Test
Age: 35
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Things you consider before a flight?
Hi,
I'm a newly minted SO and I need the advice of seasoned pilots here.
I'm thinking of the things I should consider before a flight. Possible to share your method of preparing for a flight? What are the things you consider beforehand? What are some of the things you expect the SO/FO to know? (if you are a skipper).
I was just reading up on my manuals and saw there's a section of company preferred alternates. So it's good for me to know beforehand this info before I report for a flight. Something along this line?
Thanks for the advice!
I'm a newly minted SO and I need the advice of seasoned pilots here.
I'm thinking of the things I should consider before a flight. Possible to share your method of preparing for a flight? What are the things you consider beforehand? What are some of the things you expect the SO/FO to know? (if you are a skipper).
I was just reading up on my manuals and saw there's a section of company preferred alternates. So it's good for me to know beforehand this info before I report for a flight. Something along this line?
Thanks for the advice!
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is relevant to short-haul flying in EU.
What I did before the magneta line brigade, but it is still very relevant, was to ask the Nav dept for old airways charts. Then, the day before the flight I would plot the route with a hi-light marker. This gave me situational awareness of countries crossed, MORA's en-route, en-route diversion airfields (company preferable) and where the destination alternate was relative to the destination. I had a map in my head of where we were going. You may be above cloud the whole way and one bed of cloud looks pretty much like them all.
Then I would plan the descent into destination. Going into Amsterdam, very flat, is very different to descending over the Alps into BGY where you arrive overhead at FL100, or descending down below MSA for RW14 ILS into AGP. You could be IMC on both of them and should be able to visualise what is underneath you.
Remember the return route may not be the reverse of the outbound. It was common to fly from eastern UK or N.EU to Greece via Germany and Yugoslavia, but return via Italy & France.
Then you need to have the most likely SID & STAR planned in your brain. Look for the traps of speed restrictions & crossing altitudes. Is the departure frequency change via ATC or silent automatic on takeoff?
There is much that you should have studied and be aware of before you reach the briefing stage. After you've done the same thing a few times, and it is familiar, then OK.
Lastly, before I left home I used to look at the METER/TAF for departure & destination. Before I was near the crew room I knew if there might be weather problems and could anticipate which runway would be in use at both ends. Would it be an ILS or NPA, even a circle. How did the weather match the minima. Would that affect fuel? Did company intranet docs give you an idea if it would be a tanker sector or not.
Long-haul is a little different, but similar.
Being prepared when arriving in the crew room is so much more relaxing than being on the backside of the curve and rushing, especially in LoCo's. It'll impress the LTC and start the day off smoothly.
All success.
What I did before the magneta line brigade, but it is still very relevant, was to ask the Nav dept for old airways charts. Then, the day before the flight I would plot the route with a hi-light marker. This gave me situational awareness of countries crossed, MORA's en-route, en-route diversion airfields (company preferable) and where the destination alternate was relative to the destination. I had a map in my head of where we were going. You may be above cloud the whole way and one bed of cloud looks pretty much like them all.
Then I would plan the descent into destination. Going into Amsterdam, very flat, is very different to descending over the Alps into BGY where you arrive overhead at FL100, or descending down below MSA for RW14 ILS into AGP. You could be IMC on both of them and should be able to visualise what is underneath you.
Remember the return route may not be the reverse of the outbound. It was common to fly from eastern UK or N.EU to Greece via Germany and Yugoslavia, but return via Italy & France.
Then you need to have the most likely SID & STAR planned in your brain. Look for the traps of speed restrictions & crossing altitudes. Is the departure frequency change via ATC or silent automatic on takeoff?
There is much that you should have studied and be aware of before you reach the briefing stage. After you've done the same thing a few times, and it is familiar, then OK.
Lastly, before I left home I used to look at the METER/TAF for departure & destination. Before I was near the crew room I knew if there might be weather problems and could anticipate which runway would be in use at both ends. Would it be an ILS or NPA, even a circle. How did the weather match the minima. Would that affect fuel? Did company intranet docs give you an idea if it would be a tanker sector or not.
Long-haul is a little different, but similar.
Being prepared when arriving in the crew room is so much more relaxing than being on the backside of the curve and rushing, especially in LoCo's. It'll impress the LTC and start the day off smoothly.
All success.
Consider all those things which will be different on the flight.
This of course implies that you have a norm against which a comparison might be made; yet we are told that we should never take anything as ‘normal’.
Basically consider those items which standout as being ‘not the norm’. This is the basis of risk management before flight, and hopefully following a post flight debrief, to learn and improve experience.
This of course implies that you have a norm against which a comparison might be made; yet we are told that we should never take anything as ‘normal’.
Basically consider those items which standout as being ‘not the norm’. This is the basis of risk management before flight, and hopefully following a post flight debrief, to learn and improve experience.
extricate, S/O flying means many things but one very important one I found was to always know what you would do during the sector and mentally fly the aircraft. I mean think taxi speed, holding lines, rotate technique, clean up, the rest of the sector, in short mentally do the lot.
If you are new to the route structure and unfamiliar with the routes, when you get your roster ask the dispatch people to give you a copy of the flight plans for the flight say two days prior to your operation so you can do your homework. Think LSA, diversion ports, field approach and arrival not forgetting taxi routes. I looked like a mug on an early promotional training sector when I had neglected to work out a taxi route - cost many beers.
It goes without saying but I'll say it - be 110% on top of ALL SOPs. A good tip is to think that were you in command, what support would you (will you!) want from your S/O and work hard to provide it. Never forget that the crew almost invariably has a wealth of experience and company knowledge so, in a quiet time in crz, ask about stuff you're not really certain of. That's for starters!
Under no circumstances fall into the mind set that you're just the S/O so you can get away with sloppy work. You likely can but believe me, it will be noticed and besides, you're a professional aviator so act the part.
If you are new to the route structure and unfamiliar with the routes, when you get your roster ask the dispatch people to give you a copy of the flight plans for the flight say two days prior to your operation so you can do your homework. Think LSA, diversion ports, field approach and arrival not forgetting taxi routes. I looked like a mug on an early promotional training sector when I had neglected to work out a taxi route - cost many beers.
It goes without saying but I'll say it - be 110% on top of ALL SOPs. A good tip is to think that were you in command, what support would you (will you!) want from your S/O and work hard to provide it. Never forget that the crew almost invariably has a wealth of experience and company knowledge so, in a quiet time in crz, ask about stuff you're not really certain of. That's for starters!
Under no circumstances fall into the mind set that you're just the S/O so you can get away with sloppy work. You likely can but believe me, it will be noticed and besides, you're a professional aviator so act the part.
I'd offer the following from a Long haulers POV so delete as appropriate - I think as others have said you should fairly quickly be on top of SOPs, though I always try to find time before a duty to refresh myself on any the memory items/actions from the non-normals...on the grounds you never ever know...
And very much agree with the comment that:
Yup, if you have the luxury of being driven to the airport (bus, crew bus, train etc) rather than switching off or checking farcebook on the phone have a think about the weather you seeing out of the window....if it's snowing then have a think about de-icing...if it's howling a gale have a think about crosswind limitations and handling, etc...
And very much agree with the comment that:
Basically consider those items which standout as being ‘not the norm’
Always have a 'Plan B' up your sleeve. Even though you are still a S/O, start thinking now like a captain, it will stand you in good stead. Make up your own mind about the course of action you think most suitable for every circumstance you meet and, then, when you fly with sympathetic captains, ask him/her to discuss their reasons for conducting the flight in the way they did.
As for 'Plan B', some are already pre-thought out, e.g. rejected take-off with an engine failure before V1 and go-around when the runway is not seen at MDA. But have you thought it all through to the end? The actions you might need to take after the immediate actions, such as the whole departure route and return (or diversion) if the engine fails after V1, and not just the go-around itself but also the routeing and whole route to the alternate airfield.
RAT 5 and mustafagander both offer some very good advice. But I would also add ALWAYS keep thinking 'what if'? When en-route, things like drift down altitudes, range and routes to en-route alternates after whatever failure caused you to drift down to the lower altitude.
I know that not all of these things are always relevant before flight - but you never know!
As for 'Plan B', some are already pre-thought out, e.g. rejected take-off with an engine failure before V1 and go-around when the runway is not seen at MDA. But have you thought it all through to the end? The actions you might need to take after the immediate actions, such as the whole departure route and return (or diversion) if the engine fails after V1, and not just the go-around itself but also the routeing and whole route to the alternate airfield.
RAT 5 and mustafagander both offer some very good advice. But I would also add ALWAYS keep thinking 'what if'? When en-route, things like drift down altitudes, range and routes to en-route alternates after whatever failure caused you to drift down to the lower altitude.
I know that not all of these things are always relevant before flight - but you never know!
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm thinking of the things I should consider before a flight.
Bergerie: I agree with your thoughts, and we could write volumes of all the under appreciated amount of thinking going through a commander's mind 'during' the flight. One sugar or 2; tea or coffee? Once they are sorted out we can then relax and address the plethora of information that continuously assaults the brain and needs filtering so that the tsunami of trivia doesn't mask those items that need careful attention.
As you say, some might not switch on the lights before the flight.
Bergerie: I agree with your thoughts, and we could write volumes of all the under appreciated amount of thinking going through a commander's mind 'during' the flight. One sugar or 2; tea or coffee? Once they are sorted out we can then relax and address the plethora of information that continuously assaults the brain and needs filtering so that the tsunami of trivia doesn't mask those items that need careful attention.
As you say, some might not switch on the lights before the flight.
Rat 5,
Yes, I agree with you too, but some of these things can still be thought through well before flight. For example, the weather, the type of terrain to be overflown, the nav aids available, the distance from en-route alternates, the facilities at destination, etc, etc, etc.
I still retain my belief in a good 'Plan B', whatever the situations - pre-flight, during flight and even post flight!
Yes, I agree with you too, but some of these things can still be thought through well before flight. For example, the weather, the type of terrain to be overflown, the nav aids available, the distance from en-route alternates, the facilities at destination, etc, etc, etc.
I still retain my belief in a good 'Plan B', whatever the situations - pre-flight, during flight and even post flight!
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still retain my belief in a good 'Plan B', whatever the situations - pre-flight, during flight and even post flight!
Indeed: a post flight Plan B is The White Horse or The Rose & Crown.
Indeed: a post flight Plan B is The White Horse or The Rose & Crown.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Have an appreciation of the political issues in the area. Not the fine detail of who's the president but understanding of issues such as in the Middle East, Russia v Ukraine etc.
Such that if you need to divert, there may be greater issues for your passengers than just finding a hotel.
Such that if you need to divert, there may be greater issues for your passengers than just finding a hotel.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah Ha. In early 90's, just after the collapse of USSR, I was route training a very experienced US Captain. He'd never flown outside USA and only travelled on holiday outside the boarders to Brazil. We flew N.Europe to Corfu via Low countries, Germany, Austria, Yugoslavia, Greece. Flight time <3.00hrs. After 1.30hr he looked across at me in astonishment and asked which country we were over. Austria. Ah; you've said hello/goodbye in 4 different languages so far. We then popped over Yugoslavia and the greetings changed again and again into Greece. He was laughing like hell. 3.00hrs & 6 languages. When over Yugoslavia we looked at the MAP and airport rings, and he asked where would be a good divert. I pointed out Bratislava, Budapest, Sofia, Bucharest. All good airports with ILS and multi-runways. "but they're all communist," he squawked as an ex-military pilot shaking at the thought. Not to worry, old boy, they're on our side now. We landed in Corfu with his brain still over Frankfurt.
The we continued our fun on the return as we launched towards Italy, more languages, and then over Switzerland and France before the cosy blanket of English gave warmth to our brave new warrior.
He got used to it and had great fun travelling all over by train with his wife and other US buddies who found employment in Europe. Secretly I think he was glad that Mr. Boeing had built an a/c that kept going and so those decisions never arose. Fun days and glad those guys had a sense of humour.
The we continued our fun on the return as we launched towards Italy, more languages, and then over Switzerland and France before the cosy blanket of English gave warmth to our brave new warrior.
He got used to it and had great fun travelling all over by train with his wife and other US buddies who found employment in Europe. Secretly I think he was glad that Mr. Boeing had built an a/c that kept going and so those decisions never arose. Fun days and glad those guys had a sense of humour.
