Notams

[AF1]

Been reading the Canada Rouge story at http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9638085

I recently read a definition of a NOTAM: "notices or advisories distributed by means of telecommunication that contain information concerning the establishment, conditions or change in any aeronautical facility, service, procedure or hazard, the timely knowledge of which is essential to personnel and systems concerned with flight operations"

I've highlighted essential. I think that maybe 15% of what I see in Notam Briefing is essential.

How can we fix the system?

[FlightDetent]

Devils advocate: can we post some examples of what is a non-essential NOTAM?

[FlyingStone]

NAVIGATIONAL WARNING TO ALL CONCERNED:
AS REGARDS TO THE GREEK NOTAM A2086/15 WHICH GIVES REFERENCE TO THE
FIR LIMIT BY GIVING GEOGRAPHICAL COORDINATES.
WE WOULD LIKE TO REFER ONCE AGAIN TO THE TURKISH AIP ENR 2.1-1 WHICH
STATES THAT THE PORTION OF ISTANBUL FIR LIMIT BETWEEN THE POINT
360456N-0295958E AND THE POINT COINCIDING WITH THE BEGINNING POINT
OF THE TURKISH-GREEK LAND BORDER DOES NOT REFLECT OR IMPLY IN ANY
WAY ANY EXPRESSION OF OPINION WHATSOEVER REGARDING THE DELIMITATION
OF ANY KIND OF BOUNDARY AMONG THE PARTIES CONCERNED OR A BILATERALLY
AGREED PRACTICE. THE SAID LINE IS PURELY THEORETICAL AND SOLELY
SERVES ATS PURPOSES. THEREFORE ANY INFORMATION, INCLUDING COPS
PRESENTED IN REFERENCE TO THIS PART OF THE FIR IS FICTITIOUS AND
THER SOLE PURPOSE IS LIMITED TO ATS REQUIREMENTS.)
A4814/15
FROM: 19 OCT 2015 14:28 TO: PERM

NAVIGATIONAL WARNING:
WITH REFERENCE TO THE TURKISH AIP SUP 28/05 WE POINT OUT THE
FOLLOWING:
A.- THE ATHINAI/ISTANBUL FIR BOUNDARY BETWEEN POINTS 404500N0261000E
AND 360500N0300000E HAS BEEN CLEARLY ESTABLISHED BY ICAO REGIONAL
AGREEMENTS AND CONSEQUENTLY IS FOUNDED ON AN AUDOUBTEDLY SOUND LEGAL
BASIS AS NOTED IN OUR A1709/07 LGGGYNYX NOTAM.
MORE SPECIFICALLY THE DELIMITATION OF THIS BOUNDARY WAS COMPLETED
DURING THE SECOND MIDDLE EAST AND THIRD EUROPEAN-MEDITERRANEAN
REGIONAL AIR NAVIGATION MEETINGS (ISTANBUL OCT-NOV 1950 AND PARIS
FEB-MAR 1952) AND SUBSEQUENTLY APPROVED BY THE ICAO COUNCIL ON
DECEMBER 14 1950 AND JUNE 23 1952 RESPECTIVELY.
THE AGREED AND APPROVED ATHINAI/ISTANBUL FIR BOUNDARY IS CLEARLY
DEPICTED ON MAP NO 7 OF THE 1952 REGIONAL AIR NAVIGATION AGREEMENT
AND REPORTED IN THE AIR NAVIGATION PLAN FOR THE EUROPEAN REGION
CHARTS ATS 1A ICAO DOC 7754 AS WELL AS ON ALL THE FOLLOWING ICAO
AERONAUTICAL CHARTS THUS CONSTITUTING AN INTERNATIONAL LEGALLY
ESTABLISHED REGIME CONFIRMED BY A LONG STANDING PRACTICE NOT LEAVING
SPACE FOR MISLEADING OR MISINTERPRETATIONS.
B.- THE NEW COPS STATED IN THE AIP-GREECE PAGES ENR 4.4-1 AND ENR
4.4-5 NAMELY BELGI RIKSO PIROX SOTIV AND BENEM CALCULATED AND
SUBMITTED BY ICAO IN HIS RELEVANT LETTERS TO GREECE AND TURKEY AND
SUBSEQUENTLY ACCEPTED AND PUBLISHED BY THEM AS WELL AS OTHER COPS
PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED NAMELY GOLDO AMANI VEXOL REDRA SITRU AND
BANRO COINCIDE WITH THE ATHINAI/ISTANBUL FIR BOUNDARY ACCORING TO
THE ICAO AERONAUTICAL CHARTS AND THE LONG STANDING PRACTICE AS
MENTIONED ABOVE.
FOR ALL THE AFOREMENTIONED REASONS FULLY CONSISTENT WITH ICAO
CONSIDERATIONS AND NEEDS THE TURKISH AIP SUP 28/05 IS IRRELEVANT IN
ITS ENTIRETY AND NOT PRODUCINGANY INTERNATIONALLY LEGAL EFFECT.
A2086/15
FROM: 19 OCT 2015 10:09 TO: PERM

No doubt highly ESSENTIAL.

[FlightDetent]

DA: "Does your NOTAM system not provide date cut-off filter?"
I: Doubt it, it is such a common feature. See e.g. https://www.ippc.no/ippc/aerodromes.jsp

[RAT 5]

I once did a calculation for my very cost conscious airline. I took and average intra EU flight and counted the number of pages of NOTAMS & WX we had to print out before flight. (there was no chance to digest the NOTAMS in preflight, if you turned up on time.) I measured the thickness. I then multiplied that by the number on annual flights the company made and weight of unnecessary paper that was thrown away each year. The height of the column of paper was astronomical; the cost of paper & toner was huge, and the waste of time distracting. The environment affect was colossal. No reply. I had tried and gave up.

[AF1]

So, if we were to do a little "Top 3 things to change" for the Notams system, what might that look like?

1.
2.
3.

?

[SeenItAll]

Not a pilot, but a communicator. I would do these:

1. Eliminate nonessential items
2. Group items by category
3. Use upper and lower case letters as in proper English

[FlightDetent]

Define what's wrong. That comes first.

We did similar to what RAT says, except the final figures were only significant and not colossal. But then I prefer not to exaggerate much. Still enough to devise an electronic reader with highlighting with one year ROI. Interesting things learned, company went bust anyhow. I guess it is not paying social security that keeps them afloat.

[Skyjob]

Also depends on filters set in NOTAM. Incorrect settings are often reason why filers allow them to be displayed even if unnecessary for flight crew.
Filtering duplicate notams when briefing packages are generated is another reason multiple identical notams may show up in one briefing printout.
Best way to move forward is electronic notam administration, with visual clues to crew what notams affect their flight. xNOTAM have been worked on and are being improved for a long time now, time to put them to good use. In an EFB environment the crew should be able to see NOTAMs by selection and the amount of NOTAM would no longer be a limitation, moreover it would enable crew to see NOTAM for e.g. diversion even if no such NOTAM are available preflight as airport may not be included initially for briefing.

Current paper amount of NOTAM are too much, but reducing its content and amount requires work from all parties, those writing the NOTAMs to correctly set flags and understand the limited capacity crews have to digest all information presented preflight, those generating NOTAMs briefings to ensure correct filters are set so not to overindulge crews with information which may be trivial, those reading them to be able to report back on briefing packages so to work on improving the information contained within.

[oicur12.again]

I think Notams are a weak point in this industry and cannot believe that we STILL read thru pages and pages of coded nonsense to figure out exactly how or if each notam effects us.

One port i routinely fly into publishes 2 pages of notams detailing non standard taxiway surfaces for gods sake.

And my fave is advice to excercise caution during airport construction. Like we taxi around with gay abandon at other times.

I have seen longhaul notam packages that literally require hours to read properly. With a 15 minute sign on.......

Rant over, time to retire

[FlightDetent]

oicur: name and shame, whats the ICAO code?

[dixi188]

Not been there for a good few years, But, is the Shannon rescue boat still out of service?
It was out of service for about 15 years when I used to go there and always on the notam.

[FlyingStone]

E) AMEND ATIS REMARK TEL NUMBER, REMOVE 2706 AND REPLACE WITH 0442. AIP
SECTION EGAE AD 2.18 REFERS.

This one is also particularly useful. Whoever wrote this used more characters than they would if they provided the entire new number. Just to make our lives easier, you know...