Late runway changes, go arounds, briefings
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Late runway changes, go arounds, briefings
Hi
I want to get following info: suppose you are on final ILS approach runway 22L at 500ft AGL in IMC. You have briefed this approach. ATC informs you that runway is unavailable but suggest 22R is available and now you can see it at 400ft. What happens next? You deny and go around or accept it? Will you accept 22R if you haven't briefed it? Theoretically you even don't know if runway length is enough?
You accept 22R, align with runway but have to go around from 100ft anyway. What go around procedure do you fly? for 22L or 22R?
Another situation: You fly to some airport and get visual approach from ATC. You have to go around. How do you fly it? Visual approach plates I have seen don't say anything about this. Just show routes to enter or leave CTR and holding points sometimes. Let say airport is surrounded with prohibited airspace. As far as I am aware FMS don't display airspace in big airliners. Ho to avoid it?
I want to get following info: suppose you are on final ILS approach runway 22L at 500ft AGL in IMC. You have briefed this approach. ATC informs you that runway is unavailable but suggest 22R is available and now you can see it at 400ft. What happens next? You deny and go around or accept it? Will you accept 22R if you haven't briefed it? Theoretically you even don't know if runway length is enough?
You accept 22R, align with runway but have to go around from 100ft anyway. What go around procedure do you fly? for 22L or 22R?
Another situation: You fly to some airport and get visual approach from ATC. You have to go around. How do you fly it? Visual approach plates I have seen don't say anything about this. Just show routes to enter or leave CTR and holding points sometimes. Let say airport is surrounded with prohibited airspace. As far as I am aware FMS don't display airspace in big airliners. Ho to avoid it?
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Late runway changes, go arounds, briefings
What does your company policy say regarding stabilised approach gates and altitudes? Is there something critical demanding that you land "right now" and not after a safe repositioning under vectors?
What go-around did you brief for in the VMC conditions? Did you brief to follow the standard ILS missed approach in case of go-around, or are conditions favourable to a traffic pattern?
Airline pilots are not supposed to be cowboys. All things considered and discussed, preferably before descending through transition altitude too.
A little information about your background would assist in providing answers. Are you a trainee, a SEP pilot, a passenger or a FSX fan...
What go-around did you brief for in the VMC conditions? Did you brief to follow the standard ILS missed approach in case of go-around, or are conditions favourable to a traffic pattern?
Airline pilots are not supposed to be cowboys. All things considered and discussed, preferably before descending through transition altitude too.
A little information about your background would assist in providing answers. Are you a trainee, a SEP pilot, a passenger or a FSX fan...
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I don't work for the company but have frozen ATPL. This is an actual scenario from 737 simulator test during the company interview... So I just want to know what the best action is in those cases... As they will try to make you fly as a cowboy! 
For visual I just wanted to know how do you fly visually a big airliner? For SEP pilot is clear. In the worst case you have map, probably you know area already and probably you have GPS that will show and warn about airspace.
For visual I just wanted to know how do you fly visually a big airliner? For SEP pilot is clear. In the worst case you have map, probably you know area already and probably you have GPS that will show and warn about airspace.
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Turbavykas what you asking here are basic for any pilot and doesn't make big difference if you re flying with a cessna or with a 73.
Shame in your flight school or TRTO provider....
You are speaking about company assessment and if so I suppose you have got the 73 rating or so...and I suppose looking your country that you've been trained in Lithuania ...=BAA ...
..not good Instructors over there!
As someone said and you repeated...they fly like cowboys overthere
....
rwy change, significant weather, sme mechanical problem, approach facility u/s, the list continue, and proper judgment and decison making helps...GO AROUND , BRIEF and RETURN TO LAND!
You're Visual approach dubt is still indeed a doubt for many fellow pilots.
First let's point out what is a Visual approach for EASA/JAA: Is an approach to a rwy conducted in IFR but Pilot proceeds by Visual reference and clear of clouds, this allow you to fly to the rwy without to follow and instrument approach reducing pilot and controller workload and expedie traffic.
What I can say to you is that if after VA you have to Go around normally you follow the MAP of the ILS procedure of that rwy or if advised differently from the control tower they will issue appropriate instructions.
For FAA is little bit different the concept of VA as is not considerated a IAP so If a go around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower.
Hope any EASA/JAA land Controllers*ATC* could confirm or let us know what is the correct procedure as I know some of the airport use the MAP of the PA of that Rwy, like a Circling, and others use to instruct and give MAP clearances.
Shame in your flight school or TRTO provider....
You are speaking about company assessment and if so I suppose you have got the 73 rating or so...and I suppose looking your country that you've been trained in Lithuania ...=BAA ...
..not good Instructors over there!As someone said and you repeated...they fly like cowboys overthere
....rwy change, significant weather, sme mechanical problem, approach facility u/s, the list continue, and proper judgment and decison making helps...GO AROUND , BRIEF and RETURN TO LAND!
You're Visual approach dubt is still indeed a doubt for many fellow pilots.
First let's point out what is a Visual approach for EASA/JAA: Is an approach to a rwy conducted in IFR but Pilot proceeds by Visual reference and clear of clouds, this allow you to fly to the rwy without to follow and instrument approach reducing pilot and controller workload and expedie traffic.
What I can say to you is that if after VA you have to Go around normally you follow the MAP of the ILS procedure of that rwy or if advised differently from the control tower they will issue appropriate instructions.
For FAA is little bit different the concept of VA as is not considerated a IAP so If a go around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower.
Hope any EASA/JAA land Controllers*ATC* could confirm or let us know what is the correct procedure as I know some of the airport use the MAP of the PA of that Rwy, like a Circling, and others use to instruct and give MAP clearances.
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There is no definitive answer to your questions without knowing the airport, runway alignment & separation, and other details.
In general, though, a late runway change/closure warrants a go-around. However, IF the runway alignment & separation are reasonable (e.g., 07R to 07L at PANC), you MIGHT be able to temporarily level at 500', align with the runway, and land. HOWEVER, if you are unfamiliar with the runway, a go-around is again mandatory.
For the visual approach & go-around situation, ATC should give you instructions. If they do not, the MAP for an instrument approach to the runway is a reasonable option if you can remain VMC. Again, knowledge of the airport and surrounding area is critical.
In general, though, a late runway change/closure warrants a go-around. However, IF the runway alignment & separation are reasonable (e.g., 07R to 07L at PANC), you MIGHT be able to temporarily level at 500', align with the runway, and land. HOWEVER, if you are unfamiliar with the runway, a go-around is again mandatory.
For the visual approach & go-around situation, ATC should give you instructions. If they do not, the MAP for an instrument approach to the runway is a reasonable option if you can remain VMC. Again, knowledge of the airport and surrounding area is critical.
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Thanks for the info. I know BAA but I haven't studied there and I don't have TR. GO Around makes sense in those situations but.. You are on ILS approach 22L with engine failure and fire in the galley. Last moment ATC informs that 22L is unavailable and suggest 22R. Probably it makes sense to land now? You align with 22R but forced to go around anyway. No any knowledge about 22R procedures. What's next?
GO Around makes sense in those situations but.. You are on ILS approach 22L with engine failure and fire in the galley. Last moment ATC informs that 22L is unavailable and suggest 22R. Probably it makes sense to land now? You align with 22R but forced to go around anyway. No any knowledge about 22R procedures. What's next?
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ok no problem I was just fancying about Baa and TR...Anyway the case you wrote here with 1 engine out and fire in the galley (fire is one of the worst emergency you could have on board) are extreme.
Any way you will not discover this in short final so You already called your Mayday and ATC will help you to take the most expedite way to accomodate you on the ground.
22L , 22R this could be a step down procedures and remember when fire on board or any major emergency You should bring at this point your decision making and judge the all situation and give to the ATC your intentions, you are the Captain..or pilot on board not anyone else could decide for you, but can suggest you and help you....
I think nobody in the situation you described want to go around! specially with a Fire on board, you're priority is to bring your aricraft on the ground, no jokes with fire!
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Yes situation described is bad but probably pretty common in simulator training. What's go around procedure from not briefed/unknown runway? I assume just inform ATC climb straight ahead or try to avoid terrain if any?
Don’t accept late unbriefed changes; see the experiments in the study and how easy it is to become overloaded.
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2325.pdf
Also see the other presentations on the problems of go around.
SKYbrary - Portal:Go-Around Safety Forum Presentations
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2325.pdf
Also see the other presentations on the problems of go around.
SKYbrary - Portal:Go-Around Safety Forum Presentations
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I don't mind late runway changes but 400' is too low. This below my company's circling minima. Therefore I'd go-around and prepare for an ILS 22R and be stablised by 1,000' AGL.
Regarding runway length, may I suggest you have a standard default value in your head based on MLW, 2,000' AMSL, 5 kts tail, minimum flap, BA Good, Wet, 5 kts overspeed, etc. plus 15%. Then, when given virtually any runway, you just land. You only look at the tables when a factor is different.
Always look at the go-around before you look at the approach. If there is a specific visual GA, follow it otherwise do the standard instrument GA for the runway you made your approach on (except at AMS). If unclear, ask ATC " In the event of a missed approach, what do you want us to do?"
Simple stuff.
Regarding runway length, may I suggest you have a standard default value in your head based on MLW, 2,000' AMSL, 5 kts tail, minimum flap, BA Good, Wet, 5 kts overspeed, etc. plus 15%. Then, when given virtually any runway, you just land. You only look at the tables when a factor is different.
Always look at the go-around before you look at the approach. If there is a specific visual GA, follow it otherwise do the standard instrument GA for the runway you made your approach on (except at AMS). If unclear, ask ATC " In the event of a missed approach, what do you want us to do?"
Simple stuff.
