The simulator instructor - How essential is real flying hours on type?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The simulator instructor - How essential is real flying hours on type?
A speaker at the recent Asia-Pacific Flight Safety Forum in Bangkok, stated that a looming world-wide shortage of airline pilots meant a need to train more flight simulator instructors to cover the extra training needed to fill flight decks. He added the situation could arise where a career as a simulator instructor could be envisaged directly from leaving school.
I cannot see that ever happening; but it does open up for discussion whether or not it is essential that a simulator instructor should have had a command on the aircraft type he is to instruct on.
The NZ aircrew recruitment firm, Rishworth, New Zealand, recently advertised for 737NG simulator instructors in Indonesia. I don't have the full details at hand, but understand some of the minimum requirements included currency on aircraft type in the last three months as well as 1000 in command on type.
There is a good argument for a simulator instructor to be experienced on the type of aircraft he is to instruct on. On the other hand, if the simulator instructor is already an experienced pilot but not having flown that specific type of aircraft, should that put him out of the running? Obviously, he would need to have that type on his licence and that is normally attained after having completed the type rating course on the simulator.
Simulator instructors vary greatly in their personality and knowledge of the aircraft they are instructing on. School teachers and university lecturers also vary greatly in their personal teaching styles and effectiveness. For the simulator instructor, it begs the question if personality and instructional skill is more important than thousands of hours of flying the actual aircraft?
Most of us have occasionally struck the simulator screaming skull instructor who might be 100 percent clued up on the aircraft systems from his experience as a pilot on type. But he may be a bloody awful instructor in terms of personality. Students do not learn effectively from that sort of person.
I apologize for the long-winded lead up to the following question: But, is it essential that a simulator instructor to have flown in command on the type of aircraft (simulator) on which he hopes to teach? Ideally, yes. But essential? I don't really know about that. Appreciate your comments
I cannot see that ever happening; but it does open up for discussion whether or not it is essential that a simulator instructor should have had a command on the aircraft type he is to instruct on.
The NZ aircrew recruitment firm, Rishworth, New Zealand, recently advertised for 737NG simulator instructors in Indonesia. I don't have the full details at hand, but understand some of the minimum requirements included currency on aircraft type in the last three months as well as 1000 in command on type.
There is a good argument for a simulator instructor to be experienced on the type of aircraft he is to instruct on. On the other hand, if the simulator instructor is already an experienced pilot but not having flown that specific type of aircraft, should that put him out of the running? Obviously, he would need to have that type on his licence and that is normally attained after having completed the type rating course on the simulator.
Simulator instructors vary greatly in their personality and knowledge of the aircraft they are instructing on. School teachers and university lecturers also vary greatly in their personal teaching styles and effectiveness. For the simulator instructor, it begs the question if personality and instructional skill is more important than thousands of hours of flying the actual aircraft?
Most of us have occasionally struck the simulator screaming skull instructor who might be 100 percent clued up on the aircraft systems from his experience as a pilot on type. But he may be a bloody awful instructor in terms of personality. Students do not learn effectively from that sort of person.
I apologize for the long-winded lead up to the following question: But, is it essential that a simulator instructor to have flown in command on the type of aircraft (simulator) on which he hopes to teach? Ideally, yes. But essential? I don't really know about that. Appreciate your comments
N4790P
Interesting. I too was at APATS and I didn’t quite get the same message with regards type training and there is the regulatory issue but I agree that there was a strong message put across for ‘professional simulator instructors’ within MPL, however with regards your comment “But, is it essential that a simulator instructor to have flown in command on the type of aircraft (simulator) on which he hopes to teach? Ideally, yes. But essential? I don't really know about that. Appreciate your comments” No, it is not essential to have flown in command and in fact many of the younger SFIs we see here are in fact SFOs in their day job. This relieves the pressure on the Training Captains whilst providing invaluable experience to the up and coming trainers.
A good conference though with some very positive messages for a change.
A good conference though with some very positive messages for a change.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying and teaching are essentially different skills. There are many pilots who, while busy with line flying and familiar with normal procedures, may not have the luxury of understanding the intricacies of an aircraft's systems, nor do they wish to mentor unless they are pressed into a part-time job or retire. In most jurisdictions, there is no requirement after CPL (except for an FIR) for them to have hundreds if not thousands of hours before they can teach.
Looking at it from the other end, the MPL does not require any hours in the real aircraft (except a line check) before they are let loose as a First Officer in the right hand seat on commercial flights carrying hundreds of fare paying passengers. Even less, a type rated pilot without real flight hours should be allowed to teach in a simulator provided proper instructional techniques are learnt beforehand.
Agreed, time for a change.
Looking at it from the other end, the MPL does not require any hours in the real aircraft (except a line check) before they are let loose as a First Officer in the right hand seat on commercial flights carrying hundreds of fare paying passengers. Even less, a type rated pilot without real flight hours should be allowed to teach in a simulator provided proper instructional techniques are learnt beforehand.
Agreed, time for a change.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: North America
Age: 64
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good question.
is it essential that a simulator instructor to have flown in command on the type of aircraft (simulator) on which he hopes to teach?
However, that is not to say that line flying experience is unnecessary for an airline simulator instructor.
Being fresh out of school with a newly minted rating, but without any real practical line flying experience, one might make a fine systems and initial training simulator instructor. However the same person will be a much better instructor if they were to return a few years later after having several thousand sectors of line experience behind them.
Teaching well is a separate skill set from flying.
If, for example, a pilot is an experienced B777 or Airbus 380 Captain and then was to unfortunately lose their medical certificate; it would be foolish (in my opinion) to take the position that the same individual would be categorically unable to provide superior training in some other airline’s training department as a simulator instructor on the Boeing 747 or the Airbus 340 simply because they have no command time in those other aircraft.
No, I would not subscribe to the absolute statement that a simulator instructor must have flow command on the type of aircraft on which they hope to teach. If that were true; how then did the first commander on the maiden flight of the A380 or B787 ever get their training? Before that first flight of those airplanes; nobody had ever flow the jet before. If nobody had ever flown the jet before, who gave those pilots their simulator training?
Off on a different tangent now. In the United States I am witnessing a horrible trend. It appears that the industry is moving away from competent, enthusiastic and qualified human trainers in favor of software and self paced computer based training. Our airline has gone enthusiastically in this direction with horrendous results. In my opinion a motivated, enthusiastic, qualified, experienced and capable instructor is one of the airline’s most important assets; one that can never (in my lifetime) be adequately replaced by some line of code in software.
Make use of good talent where you find it.
Last edited by Northbeach; 10th Oct 2011 at 16:29.
Guest
Posts: n/a
A Simulator is a Simulator-and flies like a Simulator...
An airplane is an airplane-and flies like an airplane...
Using a Simulator as PART of pilot training, it is there to be used for procedural training-basic maneuvers, emergencies etc...
To do that-you only need an instructor who knows:
-how to TEACH (!)
-how to read the books/the checklist
-how to fly the SIMULATOR
When it comes to real flying, it is important that the instructor KNOWS the difference between (what have been taught in) the simulator-and the REAL behaviour of the aircraft.
So my opinion:
No, a SFI does not need to be experienced on type-as long as he is experienced in the procedures AND the simulator.
BUT:
The flight instructor picked to fly with a student AFTER the simulator phase needs to be trained in both-the simulator (or the differences from) and the "real aircraft"
An airplane is an airplane-and flies like an airplane...
Using a Simulator as PART of pilot training, it is there to be used for procedural training-basic maneuvers, emergencies etc...
To do that-you only need an instructor who knows:
-how to TEACH (!)
-how to read the books/the checklist
-how to fly the SIMULATOR
When it comes to real flying, it is important that the instructor KNOWS the difference between (what have been taught in) the simulator-and the REAL behaviour of the aircraft.
So my opinion:
No, a SFI does not need to be experienced on type-as long as he is experienced in the procedures AND the simulator.
BUT:
The flight instructor picked to fly with a student AFTER the simulator phase needs to be trained in both-the simulator (or the differences from) and the "real aircraft"
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hueyracer, a little bland response
I am biased, (thats an honest admission).....
I work in a simulator environment as well as a line pilot, on as you might guess Gulfstreams.
A major problem that I see on initials, is that the instructor will teach a procedure by the book. The procedure is perfectly valid.
The simulator is a very good tool but does sometimes lack certain fine tuning, thus the student can fly the sim and needs time on the real aircraft.
The benefit of an instructor, or mentor when in the sim, is that these points are covered, whilst not experienced have been discussed.
With ZERO time conversions, or 3 to/landing conversion many of the real aircraft variations are not covered.
In my current sim environment some instructors are very experienced on type, , and compare to 737/200. !!!!! some never seen a Gulfstream, and always compare to 737/200. !!!!! just do a sim recurrent, never having flown the real thing.
The best G550 instructor had never flown the type except for 3hrs in jump seat, in over 2 years. He was a good instructor, with vast corporate experience.
The G450 is being instructed as a type, on a G550 sim, both the ground and sim instructors have never see a G450.....
I work in a simulator environment as well as a line pilot, on as you might guess Gulfstreams.
A major problem that I see on initials, is that the instructor will teach a procedure by the book. The procedure is perfectly valid.
The simulator is a very good tool but does sometimes lack certain fine tuning, thus the student can fly the sim and needs time on the real aircraft.
The benefit of an instructor, or mentor when in the sim, is that these points are covered, whilst not experienced have been discussed.
With ZERO time conversions, or 3 to/landing conversion many of the real aircraft variations are not covered.
In my current sim environment some instructors are very experienced on type, , and compare to 737/200. !!!!! some never seen a Gulfstream, and always compare to 737/200. !!!!! just do a sim recurrent, never having flown the real thing.
The best G550 instructor had never flown the type except for 3hrs in jump seat, in over 2 years. He was a good instructor, with vast corporate experience.
The G450 is being instructed as a type, on a G550 sim, both the ground and sim instructors have never see a G450.....
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Western USA
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You need someone to be a good isntructor and you need that someone to have experience in type and/or line flying for those talents and qualification to be combined into the ideal instructor. Anything less is a compromise.
With experience on the airplane, I can relate my experiences to the student and teach the airplane with more credibility than someone who has never flown the airplane. As a student, I would prefer to have an experienced sim instructor teaching me. As an ex-airline chief pilot, company policy for that particular airline was to always have check airmen be the sim instructor, and I agreed with that policy. They didn't always do the best job as instructors, but then sometimes a good instructor is hard to find, regardless of his/her experience. All of them, though, had credibility and personal knowledge to impart because of their aircraft line experience. Personally, I feel that is an important factor for doing the job.
With experience on the airplane, I can relate my experiences to the student and teach the airplane with more credibility than someone who has never flown the airplane. As a student, I would prefer to have an experienced sim instructor teaching me. As an ex-airline chief pilot, company policy for that particular airline was to always have check airmen be the sim instructor, and I agreed with that policy. They didn't always do the best job as instructors, but then sometimes a good instructor is hard to find, regardless of his/her experience. All of them, though, had credibility and personal knowledge to impart because of their aircraft line experience. Personally, I feel that is an important factor for doing the job.
