Importance of networking
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Importance of networking
I recently flew with an older captain stating in a discussion 'networking' was absolutely useless, unless the pilot you knew was in a certain position.
I just started flying, so I don't really know aviation that well. However, I feel he's wrong .. look at easyjet, etc. where pilots can recommend other pilots and also other pilots can give you inside info on how a job really is like, right?.
So really, how important is networking ? Or is it to you ?
I just started flying, so I don't really know aviation that well. However, I feel he's wrong .. look at easyjet, etc. where pilots can recommend other pilots and also other pilots can give you inside info on how a job really is like, right?.
So really, how important is networking ? Or is it to you ?
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No networking then...
Hola Ray -
xxx
Well, I am at the other end, retiring in 7 weeks.
My airline interviews were in the past century... 1968.
All you needed was CPL, IR, MEL... F/E if it was in the USA...
Back then, there were some 5,000 aspiring pilots, and about 5,000 openings.
We did not do any "networking" at all. Or if any, very little.
Worse even, we never exchanged info on who was hiring, until after hired.
That in fear that another friend might be hired in front of you.
And of course, in these days, the web did not exist.
Now, if Pprune says XYZ Airlines hiring 20 pilots, there will be 500 candidates in front of you.
xxx
Everything started to go crazy for jobs from about 1975.
Call it 15,000 pilot school graduates, for 7,500 airline pilot openings...?
Everyone started to buy fATPL licences, qualifications and ratings at any price.
Started to get bad. from $20,000... now some spend $100,000 or more.
Do not tell me it is inflation.
Salaries are barely twice as much as they were, training is now 5 times what it was.
xxx
Glad to retire. More than welcome to replace me... I will be at the beach.
Tot ziens, mijn vriend...
Happy contrails
xxx
Well, I am at the other end, retiring in 7 weeks.
My airline interviews were in the past century... 1968.
All you needed was CPL, IR, MEL... F/E if it was in the USA...
Back then, there were some 5,000 aspiring pilots, and about 5,000 openings.
We did not do any "networking" at all. Or if any, very little.
Worse even, we never exchanged info on who was hiring, until after hired.
That in fear that another friend might be hired in front of you.
And of course, in these days, the web did not exist.
Now, if Pprune says XYZ Airlines hiring 20 pilots, there will be 500 candidates in front of you.
xxx
Everything started to go crazy for jobs from about 1975.
Call it 15,000 pilot school graduates, for 7,500 airline pilot openings...?
Everyone started to buy fATPL licences, qualifications and ratings at any price.
Started to get bad. from $20,000... now some spend $100,000 or more.
Do not tell me it is inflation.
Salaries are barely twice as much as they were, training is now 5 times what it was.
xxx
Glad to retire. More than welcome to replace me... I will be at the beach.
Tot ziens, mijn vriend...
Happy contrails
With due respect to BelArgUSA, I might differ. Always smile and have a good word for your co-pilot, he might be interviewing you for a job in 5 years time. Seriously, it was a past acquaintance that I had remained in touch with that got me in my current position; along with some good references from mutual friends and professional contacts. Always do your level best at whatever you are doing; build a reputation for honesty, good humor in tough spots and be generous with friendship. It may come in handy sometime. A good reputation can go long ways, and it can be destroyed in minutes. Not by a mistake, but by not owning up to it.
GF
Best of Luck, BelArgUSA, hope to see in Florianopolis sometime.
GF
Best of Luck, BelArgUSA, hope to see in Florianopolis sometime.
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Beg to differ BELARGUS
it is relatively cheap to get rated today. Less than the price of a good car and certainly less than a degree. Hence LCCs can com out and say the things that Ryanair say.
If you dont like it leave.
The powers that be have decided that 17000 new pilots are required but I cannot see it. Unless they are drumming up business for themselves.
Pilots nowadays cannot make decisions without first considering the consequences, so one should always keep contacts and friendships for networking.
You help me today, I might be able to help you tomorrow.
it is relatively cheap to get rated today. Less than the price of a good car and certainly less than a degree. Hence LCCs can com out and say the things that Ryanair say.
If you dont like it leave.
The powers that be have decided that 17000 new pilots are required but I cannot see it. Unless they are drumming up business for themselves.
Pilots nowadays cannot make decisions without first considering the consequences, so one should always keep contacts and friendships for networking.
You help me today, I might be able to help you tomorrow.
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I don't see drumming up businesses really happening these days either .. nor any retirement for the coming 150 years for that matter (don't you just love aviation!), but that's besides the point.
I think the comment 'one should always keep contacts and friendships' is very true. I'm even tempted to add that 'one could even benefit from trying to get as many different (as in different companies) contacts and friendships' as well. Only if it were for getting a feeling for company x,y,z. The more you hear, the better you can decide your next move.
So, it seems to me 'younger' generation pilots are more keen to networking as a result you've all mentioned, demand and supply. Or would that be a wrong conclusion ? Also, would networking be valid in any part/size of aviation, or just more for small operators ?
I think the comment 'one should always keep contacts and friendships' is very true. I'm even tempted to add that 'one could even benefit from trying to get as many different (as in different companies) contacts and friendships' as well. Only if it were for getting a feeling for company x,y,z. The more you hear, the better you can decide your next move.
So, it seems to me 'younger' generation pilots are more keen to networking as a result you've all mentioned, demand and supply. Or would that be a wrong conclusion ? Also, would networking be valid in any part/size of aviation, or just more for small operators ?
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I've never been employed based on who I knew, or by networking. Certainly one can use networking to good effect, but it's not necessary, and I take it with some personal pride that the jobs I've had were based on me, not on who I knew.
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...oh come on. PLease. Honestly Guppy, the only way I could see you getting a job is from some friend that feels sorry for you and just gives you place where you can't hurt anyone and you can still wiggle the controls once in a while.
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...oh come on. PLease. Honestly Guppy, the only way I could see you getting a job is from some friend that feels sorry for you and just gives you place where you can't hurt anyone and you can still wiggle the controls once in a while.
Anyway, the first chap on my course to get a job some years ago now got his interview through a family acquaintance. I take nothing away from him, after that he had to pass interview, group tests, sim test etc, but the initial lead came from knowing someone.
I got my first aerial photo flying job by hearing at the local flying club that there was a job going, so I applied. If I had not bothered with the flying club then I'd have missed this information.
My current job as FO I got because someone else, with whom I trained many years ago, and with whom I became good friends, put my CV on the right desk. This led to an interview etc.
So I think networking is perhaps the wrong phrase - I'd have kept in touch with these people anyway, not just so they could one day maybe put work my way, but aviation is a small place - people get to know you and that can sometimes lead you to opportunities.
In bizjets all the good jobs require a degree of networking. You still need the skill, qualifications etc but in corporate (usually a relatively small team of people) your face needs to fit even more so than in an airline, and a personal recommendation, or knowing someone in charge directly, definately helps.
In the airlines networking can perhaps get you as far as a first interview but i think you are on your own from that point onwards....
In the airlines networking can perhaps get you as far as a first interview but i think you are on your own from that point onwards....
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Mike,
That charactor got banned...twice, of late (again). Not to worry. He doesn't fly for the airlines and has a chip on his shoulder...having been rejected by the airlines in the past.
So far as networking...it's a useful tool, but I disagree that it's necessary in any segment of the industry. I got my first corporate job from an advertisement in Trade A Plane. I got my next by visiting the company office. I drove to the general area, called the chief pilot, and asked if I could drop by. He told me he wasn't interested in talking to job seekers. I told him I just wanted to stop in and shake his hand, and he invited me over. I came in, sat down, and we talked for about ten minutes. He asked if I had a resume. I went downstairs to the car and retrieved one. Shortly thereafter, I left his office with a job.
On another occasion, I did the same thing. I drove about six hours to drop a resume, expecting nothing (delivering a resume in person can make a big difference). I was asked to stay the night, put up in a nice hotel, and the next morning given a full interview, a drug test, and a checkride in a company corporate jet...right on the spot...and offered a job. On a different occasion, I drove seventeen hours to meet the chief pilot of a company, got a tour of the facilities, and was left in the maintenance office. I thought I was having a friendly conversation with the director of maintenance, but by the time our chat was over and I left his office, I had a job as both a mechanic there, and as their new parts-pilot, flying parts and mechanics around the country to service aircraft in the field. Not long after that I found myself flying large airplanes for the company.
On another occasion I dropped by an operator to see if they could use a relief pilot. Their regular pilot quit that day, and the next day I was hired as the full time pilot.
I visited a job fair to deliver resumes, and came away with several interviews, and from those, a job. I got my first job in aviation washing and waxing airplanes, which lead to flying, which lead to more work. I got my first crop dusting job after driving in search of an operator. I broke down outside an ag operators house in the state of Kansas (USA), and ran out of money. He hired me, put me up in his house, and I began flying his airplanes, mixing his chemical, and sewing canola with his tractor, and fixing his equipment.
I began skydiving at a dropzone, and was soon flying their airplane and working on it.
And so on...nearly 30 different employers in all over the years. Some full time, some part time, some seasonal, some temporary. Some one-time deals, some lasting years. The common thread? I didn't get any of them because of networking. I disagree that it's necessary. It's useful, but it's important for me to know when I'm hired that I'm there because I was picked for the job as the one the employer wanted...not because a friend got me the position. To others, perhaps not...and it's true that networking works. it's not necessary, however, and one shouldn't feel greatly disadvantaged simply because one doesn't have a buddy on the inside.
That charactor got banned...twice, of late (again). Not to worry. He doesn't fly for the airlines and has a chip on his shoulder...having been rejected by the airlines in the past.
So far as networking...it's a useful tool, but I disagree that it's necessary in any segment of the industry. I got my first corporate job from an advertisement in Trade A Plane. I got my next by visiting the company office. I drove to the general area, called the chief pilot, and asked if I could drop by. He told me he wasn't interested in talking to job seekers. I told him I just wanted to stop in and shake his hand, and he invited me over. I came in, sat down, and we talked for about ten minutes. He asked if I had a resume. I went downstairs to the car and retrieved one. Shortly thereafter, I left his office with a job.
On another occasion, I did the same thing. I drove about six hours to drop a resume, expecting nothing (delivering a resume in person can make a big difference). I was asked to stay the night, put up in a nice hotel, and the next morning given a full interview, a drug test, and a checkride in a company corporate jet...right on the spot...and offered a job. On a different occasion, I drove seventeen hours to meet the chief pilot of a company, got a tour of the facilities, and was left in the maintenance office. I thought I was having a friendly conversation with the director of maintenance, but by the time our chat was over and I left his office, I had a job as both a mechanic there, and as their new parts-pilot, flying parts and mechanics around the country to service aircraft in the field. Not long after that I found myself flying large airplanes for the company.
On another occasion I dropped by an operator to see if they could use a relief pilot. Their regular pilot quit that day, and the next day I was hired as the full time pilot.
I visited a job fair to deliver resumes, and came away with several interviews, and from those, a job. I got my first job in aviation washing and waxing airplanes, which lead to flying, which lead to more work. I got my first crop dusting job after driving in search of an operator. I broke down outside an ag operators house in the state of Kansas (USA), and ran out of money. He hired me, put me up in his house, and I began flying his airplanes, mixing his chemical, and sewing canola with his tractor, and fixing his equipment.
I began skydiving at a dropzone, and was soon flying their airplane and working on it.
And so on...nearly 30 different employers in all over the years. Some full time, some part time, some seasonal, some temporary. Some one-time deals, some lasting years. The common thread? I didn't get any of them because of networking. I disagree that it's necessary. It's useful, but it's important for me to know when I'm hired that I'm there because I was picked for the job as the one the employer wanted...not because a friend got me the position. To others, perhaps not...and it's true that networking works. it's not necessary, however, and one shouldn't feel greatly disadvantaged simply because one doesn't have a buddy on the inside.
