90 days/28 days experience - in accident reports
Join Date: May 2001
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The CAA did a safety review in 2007 following the introduction of the new JAA rules on biennial instructor flights, 90 day rule, annual MEP tests etc which were introduced in 1999/2000.
The review concluded that they had brought no improvement in safety statistics.
I used to keep a link to the paper in my bookmarks but alas it is now redundant following the revamp of the CAA website and I can no longer find it.
The review concluded that they had brought no improvement in safety statistics.
I used to keep a link to the paper in my bookmarks but alas it is now redundant following the revamp of the CAA website and I can no longer find it.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I've got so used to 6 monthly sim checks and OPC's on two different types, plus two annual line checks and safety certs that I just carry it into my private flying and twice a year fly with an instructor for a brush up. I always learn something and always enjoy it.
My employers have a policy that after 2 weeks away a pilot goes to the aircraft early and just quietly re-famils with his office. A month away would mean a line flight under supervision and 90 days a brief check with TRE/IRE and those rules are for pilots flying 500-700 hours a year.
Back to the OP: the 28 day and 90 day stats were for commercial ops to show fatigue or lack of currency. When I appeared in one of those reports me (the P1) on the flight had 3 700 hours, the P2 (who was the company Chief Pilot had
21 340 hours of which 18 900 were on type!
SND
My employers have a policy that after 2 weeks away a pilot goes to the aircraft early and just quietly re-famils with his office. A month away would mean a line flight under supervision and 90 days a brief check with TRE/IRE and those rules are for pilots flying 500-700 hours a year.
Back to the OP: the 28 day and 90 day stats were for commercial ops to show fatigue or lack of currency. When I appeared in one of those reports me (the P1) on the flight had 3 700 hours, the P2 (who was the company Chief Pilot had
21 340 hours of which 18 900 were on type!
SND
Join Date: Jul 2012
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The main thing that hacks me off about the biennial flight with an instructor is that, by definition the aircraft must have at least two seats. So I am forced to fly something that bears almost no resemblance to my own machine, other than it has wings and can fly. That might be OK if it was something unusual or exciting but invariably its a C152 or a PA38.
I believe the American biennial, though, can cope with that allowing the single seat pilot to fly their own airplane with observation and instructions by radio from the ground.
I believe the American biennial, though, can cope with that allowing the single seat pilot to fly their own airplane with observation and instructions by radio from the ground.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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I doubt that the two-yearly flight with an examiner has had any real safety benefits in the UK.
The pilots who are prepared to learn, will learn anyhow and find those opportunities. Those who think it's pointless, will do the minimum to tick the box.
The American system that requires a minimum standard of flying to be displayed every 2 years seems massively more rational to me. But, it was politically unacceptable in Europe.
Surprising really - you'd have thought that the Americans would have been the people to fight for freedoms at the expense of safety, not the Brits.
G
The pilots who are prepared to learn, will learn anyhow and find those opportunities. Those who think it's pointless, will do the minimum to tick the box.
The American system that requires a minimum standard of flying to be displayed every 2 years seems massively more rational to me. But, it was politically unacceptable in Europe.
Surprising really - you'd have thought that the Americans would have been the people to fight for freedoms at the expense of safety, not the Brits.
G
But it was supposed to be a safety issue. Why can't we have decent legislation?
I flew today after 100 or so days. I was a bit behind the aircraft, but I don't think an instructor sitting beside me would have made any difference.
I think that if, as stated, the 28 & 90 day recency figures were introduced to indicate fatigue - this shouldn't devalue their additional use to indicate whether somebody is in sufficient flying practice.
Because when that was tried, it was fought against tooth and nail by the representative organisations of pilots who considered it an unncessary and unwanted imposition.
G
But it was supposed to be a safety issue. Why can't we have decent legislation
G
Thread Starter
G the E, I might take you up on your kind offer later in the summer, when I am due to be spied on again. Where would you recommend going for a decent breakfast? It doesn't matter if it takes over an hour if the food is good. Also, the Rans went to a new home some 5 years ago, I am enjoying a Foxbat A22L these days. Still microlight, high wing, side by side, 3 axis, good viz, nothing to worry about.
If the change to the NPPL(M) reval can't be shown to have improved safety, can we go back to the old system? If not, why not? It seems that the only people getting benefit from the change are the microlight instructors.
If the change to the NPPL(M) reval can't be shown to have improved safety, can we go back to the old system? If not, why not? It seems that the only people getting benefit from the change are the microlight instructors.
Possibly better to pick a destination for its learning benefits rather than the quality of the catering? But anyhow, so long as I had the manuals a couple of days in advance, I'd have no issue doing a biennial flight in a Foxbat. Just drop me a line a few weeks before so that we can both plan for it and try and give you the greatest learning benefits from the flight.
I would say that rather than "can we go back to the old system ", the best question would be "what would give us the greatest safety benefit for the least cost and inconvenience? ".
G
I would say that rather than "can we go back to the old system ", the best question would be "what would give us the greatest safety benefit for the least cost and inconvenience? ".
G
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When I were a lad I got into a vicious circle over checkouts for PPL hire at my club. They used to have a pragmatic approach and so the CFI would allow some renters a bit of leeway recency-wise.
When that changed to six weeks and then to monthly for all, it coincided with a cashflow problem for me.
I could just afford 12 hours a year on the cheapest a/c on the fleet, so every time I turned up for a booked 1 hour solo hire I was check rided. I never had any problems and my notes consistently reflected that. "Good hands" was my favourite comment.
So at the end of the 1 hour check ride the instructor would get out and then express surprise I was following him to the club house. When I explained he had just used up my money I occasionally got a mumbled apology. Seemed like they were told to make money out of the rule blaming the insurance company.
However I was never shown anything in writing to support that.
Now years later, fabulously wealthy with my own aerial carriage I still feel a bit hard done by in view of the number of 'clean' checks recorded.
I support the notion that down time is not necessarily an indication of increased risk but how to translate that into a practical solution escapes me.
SGC
When that changed to six weeks and then to monthly for all, it coincided with a cashflow problem for me.
I could just afford 12 hours a year on the cheapest a/c on the fleet, so every time I turned up for a booked 1 hour solo hire I was check rided. I never had any problems and my notes consistently reflected that. "Good hands" was my favourite comment.
So at the end of the 1 hour check ride the instructor would get out and then express surprise I was following him to the club house. When I explained he had just used up my money I occasionally got a mumbled apology. Seemed like they were told to make money out of the rule blaming the insurance company.
However I was never shown anything in writing to support that.
Now years later, fabulously wealthy with my own aerial carriage I still feel a bit hard done by in view of the number of 'clean' checks recorded.
I support the notion that down time is not necessarily an indication of increased risk but how to translate that into a practical solution escapes me.
SGC
Thread Starter
I do hope that you didn't get up at 05:36 (or 04:36 on the original list, Pprune has some bugs in the time display software) just to respond to me!
I am intrigued by the "pick a destination for it's learning benefits". Can you give me some examples? Obviously we don't need to go to Southend for ILS approaches so what have you in mind?
I am intrigued by the "pick a destination for it's learning benefits". Can you give me some examples? Obviously we don't need to go to Southend for ILS approaches so what have you in mind?
I was up at 5. At 5:36 I was eating breakfast whilst browsing PPRune in Buckinghamshire. At 1400 I was in a meeting in Dundee ! Sadly the Scottish weather was carp, or I wouldn't have been up so early to catch a train, and would have flown myself up. However the upside is that at quarter past five, with my day done, I am now enjoying a pint of good Scottish beer.
For example. ... if somebody is used to flying from big controlled airports with long tarmac runways then one might see value in , say taking them to Popham. On.the other hand, if they are used to non radio farmstrips - they can learn a lot from a trip to Cranfield or a zone crossing through the Southampton overhead.
For example, and always by agreement with the student. The point of a biennial being, arguably, to give someone a chance to review and sharpen their skills in relative safety and comfort.
Similarly, unusual attitudes and PFLs with someone who spends their life impersonating an autopilot on long trips.
And assuming that the pilot is serious about using the exercise to learn something or sharpen their skills up a bit.
G
For example. ... if somebody is used to flying from big controlled airports with long tarmac runways then one might see value in , say taking them to Popham. On.the other hand, if they are used to non radio farmstrips - they can learn a lot from a trip to Cranfield or a zone crossing through the Southampton overhead.
For example, and always by agreement with the student. The point of a biennial being, arguably, to give someone a chance to review and sharpen their skills in relative safety and comfort.
Similarly, unusual attitudes and PFLs with someone who spends their life impersonating an autopilot on long trips.
And assuming that the pilot is serious about using the exercise to learn something or sharpen their skills up a bit.
G
Join Date: Apr 2014
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the last one is a good point Genghis. many years ago during a biennial at old sarum as the weather was rubbish I suggested we did some IF (I had done the imc equivalent on an air squadron but never translated it to an imc rating) as would be a good refresher
these days due to the nature of my flying, a zone crossing, landing at busy tarmac airfield and using a transponder would probably do me the world of good
these days due to the nature of my flying, a zone crossing, landing at busy tarmac airfield and using a transponder would probably do me the world of good
