Four lessons on circuits and I'm still doing bad...
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You'll know it's clicked when you do a landing in filthy weather, xwind on limits, taxi in and someone says 'How was the landing?' and you say with all honesty 'Er, can't remember, think it was OK, is the kettle on?'
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OP - I'm a relatively new PPL and talking of circuits, I'm off to do some shortly myself. You will always need to keep practising circuits even once you have your license. It is where there is the most going on, the highest workload, the most aircraft in the vicinity, oh and the ground is close as well.
I always feel much better and sharper after I've done an hour in the circuit, so when I passed my GST I told myself I will do circuits at least every couple of months to keep on top of my skills and practise something that you only do once in a navigational a to b flight, i.e. landing.
It will come, believe me, I had some terrible circuit sessions when I started as there is so much to do, but the trick is to try and stay ahead of the aeroplane. Always be thinking what am I going to be doing next so that you are not in a rush.
On top of it all, enjoy learning. Its a great journey and only the start..
Happy flying.
I always feel much better and sharper after I've done an hour in the circuit, so when I passed my GST I told myself I will do circuits at least every couple of months to keep on top of my skills and practise something that you only do once in a navigational a to b flight, i.e. landing.
It will come, believe me, I had some terrible circuit sessions when I started as there is so much to do, but the trick is to try and stay ahead of the aeroplane. Always be thinking what am I going to be doing next so that you are not in a rush.
On top of it all, enjoy learning. Its a great journey and only the start..
Happy flying.
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You will always need to keep practising circuits even once you have your license.
I flew a half hour of circuits yesterday, including two forced approaches, just to keep fresh.
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"One more thing" after I had some nice training session with a low timer today: it helps if you fly take off and landing separate in mind - divide the circuit flying into two or four definite distinct parts -> do a mentally focussed (A) callout "We start" -> take off - climb - level (B) callout "We cruise" -> cruise configuration (C) callout "We land" -> preparation, base, let down, land (D) callout "We landed" -> roll or T/G. Callouts sound crazy and it felt kind of weird, but it helped (you can do it in a very distinguished way, but our "chakka-chakka-We" callouts were as efficient and much! more fun - don't ask what comment we got from tower when the PPT was pushed during chakka though ... ;-) ...), so why not do it?
When we started today, the student was already mentally at landing prep when in the middle of climb, which hindered him from doing it all correct. After we did take/offs and landings mentally separate - at first assisted by one or two 360 in downwind to switch brain and yes, after clearance from laughing tower (sing your radio call will now be glued to my name) - he figured it out.
When we started today, the student was already mentally at landing prep when in the middle of climb, which hindered him from doing it all correct. After we did take/offs and landings mentally separate - at first assisted by one or two 360 in downwind to switch brain and yes, after clearance from laughing tower (sing your radio call will now be glued to my name) - he figured it out.
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Originally Posted by CX163
Any suggestions to improve my performance? It's really frustrating
I suggest that you talk openly about your frustration with your instructor. You can also talk to other instructiors to hear their opinions.
When someone's progress slows down or stalls, they need more than just a greath bunch of advice. They must conciously analyze ("troubleshoot") the problem to correct it for good (unlearn the bad things and learn the good ones), with the help of the CFI sitting next to you.
I feel that drifting all over the place is a sign of overcontrolling the airplane, but nobody else can identify the reasons better than the instructor sitting next to you.
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I'm a student myself but I have no problem with circuits so I thought I'm "eligible" to offer some advice here myself.
First things first - talk to your instructor about your feelings at all times. He/She has to know what's going on in your head and offer some advice
Second - does your school offer a flight sim? Initially I was sceptical myself, but honestly nothing helps better than an instructor who pauses the sim just when you screw up, to explain what went wrong and what you can do to improve. Its not possible on a real life environment
and lastly - get yourself a pair of Saitek Yoke, pedals, definitely trim wheel and other stuff, connect them with FSX and fly one of those A2A cessnas or pipers, they're really good. I've come across the opinion that students with gaps don't progress many times, dear I say, if you have yourself a sim in your bed-room, it's all rubbish, and this setup, expensive as it may be, will keep you current when the weather outside is bad or the wallet is wearing thin
I agree to what fuji and Big Pistons Forever said, but on their note, can I just add - your landing starts in downwind! It's just when you pass that runway in 45 deg angle, when you need to have your first set of flaps out, speed stable at whatever it is your plane requires, this is when you have time and space to build a foundation to a successful landing.. anything after that is just catching up and filling gaps of things you didn't do on downwind
First things first - talk to your instructor about your feelings at all times. He/She has to know what's going on in your head and offer some advice
Second - does your school offer a flight sim? Initially I was sceptical myself, but honestly nothing helps better than an instructor who pauses the sim just when you screw up, to explain what went wrong and what you can do to improve. Its not possible on a real life environment
and lastly - get yourself a pair of Saitek Yoke, pedals, definitely trim wheel and other stuff, connect them with FSX and fly one of those A2A cessnas or pipers, they're really good. I've come across the opinion that students with gaps don't progress many times, dear I say, if you have yourself a sim in your bed-room, it's all rubbish, and this setup, expensive as it may be, will keep you current when the weather outside is bad or the wallet is wearing thin
I agree to what fuji and Big Pistons Forever said, but on their note, can I just add - your landing starts in downwind! It's just when you pass that runway in 45 deg angle, when you need to have your first set of flaps out, speed stable at whatever it is your plane requires, this is when you have time and space to build a foundation to a successful landing.. anything after that is just catching up and filling gaps of things you didn't do on downwind
To fly a proper circuit you have to be able to fly a balanced climb at a constant and correct airspeed, make a balanced climbing turn, level out and set the cruise attitude and trim and then manage a level turn a descending turn and a final approach with the aircraft pitch attitude set and held to maintain the target speed and with aircraft in balance and trimmed. If you are still struggling with this then you should not, IMO, be in the circuit
CX163: How may hours training have you had in total?
MJ
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I agree to what fuji and Big Pistons Forever said, but on their note, can I just add - your landing starts in downwind! It's just when you pass that runway in 45 deg angle, when you need to have your first set of flaps out, speed stable at whatever it is your plane requires, this is when you have time and space to build a foundation to a successful landing.. anything after that is just catching up and filling gaps of things you didn't do on downwind
Pace
Why when your in a 45 deg angle downwind? What happens if you fly a complete curved approach right to touchdown? or fly a straight in or a teardrop to come back into landing. the aircraft should be stabilised but when it becomes stabilised is in the hands of the pilot! What happens if you decide to land flapless? and don't have your first stage of flap in ? You can't do a good landing ???
Pace
Pace
The OP has just four flights in the circuit. Flying training starts with perfecting the basics. When the basics are mastered those skills are then stretched to achieve higher skills.
If you as an instructor are teaching a curved approach to a landing on the first circuit lessons you are doing it wrong.
Ab initio training is different from any other flight training and if you have never done any, than at the risk of being rude, I have to say you have no clue.
Ab initio training is different from any other flight training and if you have never done any, than at the risk of being rude, I have to say you have no clue.
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BPF
OK My post came across wrong and probably reiterated a long discussion in the longer but similar thread ( why is landing the bloody plane so hard )which developed into a discussion which shot off in many different tangents from the OP of that threads question.
Yes of course you are right in this context that the OP needs to get the circuit clear in his head and the different points in the circuit to be configured too many threads on similar subjects ((
If you read my earlier posts to him they were designed at helping a very low time student. This last post was not appropriate to him.
Pace
OK My post came across wrong and probably reiterated a long discussion in the longer but similar thread ( why is landing the bloody plane so hard )which developed into a discussion which shot off in many different tangents from the OP of that threads question.
Yes of course you are right in this context that the OP needs to get the circuit clear in his head and the different points in the circuit to be configured too many threads on similar subjects ((
If you read my earlier posts to him they were designed at helping a very low time student. This last post was not appropriate to him.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 11th Mar 2015 at 08:57.
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pace, just to clarify, I was talking about this angle:
I'm not saying that that's the only way to do it, just saying what others have already said about getting the basics mastered first, before moving on to other stuff
I'm not saying that that's the only way to do it, just saying what others have already said about getting the basics mastered first, before moving on to other stuff
Suggested reading on how we learn is "Head Strong" by Tony Buzan.
He poses the question "What is the underlying goal of all 'Try Alls' ("attempts")?".
He asked this question to thousands of college/university students over the years and 99% will answer something like "To improve or get better".
But the 1% will answer "to learn something".
So then he asks who do you think is correct? Are you going to go with the 99% majority or be a maverick and go with the 1%?
He argues (quite correctly in my opinion) that the 1% are correct and the 99% are setting themselves up for failure.
To get the full picture you need to read the book but the goal is to learn something new with each attempt. If you expect to improve every time then you are probably going to be disappointed and become more and more discouraged.
Very often our biggest learning experiences are when things don't go according to the way we expect. But this needs proper teaching and reflective thought afterwards.
It helps if you have a really good instructor but there are stages when you are learning something (especially like landing an a/c) where you have to just keep at it and, as Churchill once remarked, keep b*******g on!
Good luck and keep at it!
He poses the question "What is the underlying goal of all 'Try Alls' ("attempts")?".
He asked this question to thousands of college/university students over the years and 99% will answer something like "To improve or get better".
But the 1% will answer "to learn something".
So then he asks who do you think is correct? Are you going to go with the 99% majority or be a maverick and go with the 1%?
He argues (quite correctly in my opinion) that the 1% are correct and the 99% are setting themselves up for failure.
To get the full picture you need to read the book but the goal is to learn something new with each attempt. If you expect to improve every time then you are probably going to be disappointed and become more and more discouraged.
Very often our biggest learning experiences are when things don't go according to the way we expect. But this needs proper teaching and reflective thought afterwards.
It helps if you have a really good instructor but there are stages when you are learning something (especially like landing an a/c) where you have to just keep at it and, as Churchill once remarked, keep b*******g on!
Good luck and keep at it!
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He poses the question "What is the underlying goal of all 'Try Alls' ("attempts")?".
He asked this question to thousands of college/university students over the years and 99% will answer something like "To improve or get better".
But the 1% will answer "to learn something".
He asked this question to thousands of college/university students over the years and 99% will answer something like "To improve or get better".
But the 1% will answer "to learn something".
So, yes, focus on what you can learn from each attempt, and the getting better will happen on its own...
It helps if you have a really good instructor
After solo, my landings deteriorated. The assistant instructor didn't waste time - he chopped the lesson, and passed me on to an instructor who solved the problem in 20 minutes dual. (I just checked the old logbook).
Tony Busan? Isn't he the "Mind Map" guru? Just write down the circuit and landing details, circle with the correct box shape, and join with the correct colour lines.
I was forced (payed by the taxpayer) to attend a day course run by a disciple of Busan. Stand in group circles, and make figure of eight movements on the back of the person in front. Listen to a record of "My Sweet Lord", with arms folded. and it was suggested we should sway from side to side in time with it. As well as learning to draw mind maps.
A bit off topic but Maoraigh reminds me of Charter I did years ago. It was to fly a guy in the floatplane to a little island for a weekend of company sponsored " team building" . The guy was young, scary smart and doing something very lucrative in the investment banking field. I dropped him off Friday afternoon with instructions for a Sunday evening pickup. He called early Saturday afternoon and asked for a pickup ASAP.
When I arrived I delicately asked if everything was alright. He said he was fine but he was damned if he was putting up with one more minute of B*ull**** and Brown Rice !
When we got back he took me out for beers and chicken wings until the company jet showed up to take him back.
When I arrived I delicately asked if everything was alright. He said he was fine but he was damned if he was putting up with one more minute of B*ull**** and Brown Rice !
When we got back he took me out for beers and chicken wings until the company jet showed up to take him back.
Tony Busan? Isn't he the "Mind Map" guru? Just write down the circuit and landing details, circle with the correct box shape, and join with the correct colour lines.
I was forced (payed by the taxpayer) to attend a day course run by a disciple of Busan. Stand in group circles, and make figure of eight movements on the back of the person in front. Listen to a record of "My Sweet Lord", with arms folded. and it was suggested we should sway from side to side in time with it. As well as learning to draw mind maps.
I was forced (payed by the taxpayer) to attend a day course run by a disciple of Busan. Stand in group circles, and make figure of eight movements on the back of the person in front. Listen to a record of "My Sweet Lord", with arms folded. and it was suggested we should sway from side to side in time with it. As well as learning to draw mind maps.
He did invent the concept of Mind Maps but am sure he wouldn't be involved in the sort of smoke and mirror stuff you describe.
He has written some excellent books on how the brain learns.
Tony Buzan
