Four lessons on circuits and I'm still doing bad...
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Four lessons on circuits and I'm still doing bad...
Hi all,
I'd memorized all the stuffs but theories went behind when I got up there.
Had flown almost 100 ft above, too fast and drifting everywhere
Any suggestions to improve my performance? It's really frustrating
Thanks in advance.
I'd memorized all the stuffs but theories went behind when I got up there.
Had flown almost 100 ft above, too fast and drifting everywhere
Any suggestions to improve my performance? It's really frustrating
Thanks in advance.
You don't say whether you are flying a C152 or A380, but I'm guessing nearer the former?
Four lessons is not all that many, it takes a long time to learn to fly - about 45 flying hours to master a PPL.
The circuit is the basis of a lot of flying. It might seem to be taking a long time, but lots of more complicated stuff leads on from circuits.
Try walking the circuit. Actually walk around your garden or a field in the pattern of the circuit imagining you are flying. At each point of the imaginary circuit: what speed are you looking for, what altitude are you looking for, what checks are you doing, what configuration are you altering, what attitude are you setting, what engine settings are you making, what radio calls are you making, what will you need to do next, etc., etc.
Good luck !
Four lessons is not all that many, it takes a long time to learn to fly - about 45 flying hours to master a PPL.
The circuit is the basis of a lot of flying. It might seem to be taking a long time, but lots of more complicated stuff leads on from circuits.
Try walking the circuit. Actually walk around your garden or a field in the pattern of the circuit imagining you are flying. At each point of the imaginary circuit: what speed are you looking for, what altitude are you looking for, what checks are you doing, what configuration are you altering, what attitude are you setting, what engine settings are you making, what radio calls are you making, what will you need to do next, etc., etc.
Good luck !
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Much will depend on your type. Please do tell.
But:..... basic flying technique, if it's a jet. A circuit is a visual manoeuvre yet you still need to pay close attention to the instruments. Tiny changes in attitude can have large changes in V/S and are not easy to detect looking at the horizon.
1.Know the power/pitch settings. Set the datums and make delicate adjustments +/- those datums.
2.TRIM. TRIM. TRIM. Ensure you are in perfect pitch trim, then hold the control column very lightly; finger & thumb.
3. Check the power setting is sensible.
4. Consider what phase of flight you are in. Check if the 'performance' numbers are correct: Start with attitude. Is it sensible for what I want to do? Confirm the performance via IVSI. If it's good leave it, if not adjust it....gently. Reset the attitude, trim and remember it. Look outside. Check IAS; adjust thrust as necessary. Look outside. Check Track/HDG. Same applies. Know what is the priority and check the relevant instrument for the phase of flight.
5. On approach start with Attitude; check Glide slope, check IVSI. Adjust as necessary (gently) and ensure correct trim. Check Speed and Power. Adjust as necessary.
6. Don't focus on one item too long; your eyes are outside - inside at one parameter - outside - inside at one parameter - outside..................
7. Be aware/clear what is controlling V/S and what is speed. In some phases it is Pitch & Power (level flight & approach) in Climb it is Power & Pitch (jets).
8. RELAX. ENJOY. Circuits are fun.
But:..... basic flying technique, if it's a jet. A circuit is a visual manoeuvre yet you still need to pay close attention to the instruments. Tiny changes in attitude can have large changes in V/S and are not easy to detect looking at the horizon.
1.Know the power/pitch settings. Set the datums and make delicate adjustments +/- those datums.
2.TRIM. TRIM. TRIM. Ensure you are in perfect pitch trim, then hold the control column very lightly; finger & thumb.
3. Check the power setting is sensible.
4. Consider what phase of flight you are in. Check if the 'performance' numbers are correct: Start with attitude. Is it sensible for what I want to do? Confirm the performance via IVSI. If it's good leave it, if not adjust it....gently. Reset the attitude, trim and remember it. Look outside. Check IAS; adjust thrust as necessary. Look outside. Check Track/HDG. Same applies. Know what is the priority and check the relevant instrument for the phase of flight.
5. On approach start with Attitude; check Glide slope, check IVSI. Adjust as necessary (gently) and ensure correct trim. Check Speed and Power. Adjust as necessary.
6. Don't focus on one item too long; your eyes are outside - inside at one parameter - outside - inside at one parameter - outside..................
7. Be aware/clear what is controlling V/S and what is speed. In some phases it is Pitch & Power (level flight & approach) in Climb it is Power & Pitch (jets).
8. RELAX. ENJOY. Circuits are fun.
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It's bit like when I took up the guitar over 50 years ago, I had Bert Weedons "Play in a Day" book, I'm still learning.
Four circuit sessions and still not got it right I'd give up......
wait till you get to incipient spin recovery.....
By the time you have got a licence you will have forgotten how many times you have bashed the circuit, you will do more circuits than any other exercise I'd warrant, and still need to do them with 500 hours in your logbook...
Four circuit sessions and still not got it right I'd give up......
wait till you get to incipient spin recovery.....By the time you have got a licence you will have forgotten how many times you have bashed the circuit, you will do more circuits than any other exercise I'd warrant, and still need to do them with 500 hours in your logbook...
Last edited by PA28181; 9th Mar 2015 at 14:06.
RAT.
The OP has had 4 lessons on circuits. Do share where somebody posting on a Private Flying forum is likely to be ab initio on jets
OP. It does take time. Know the datums and then try to relax and follow your instructor's advice. If it's not coming together, ask your instructor to go back to basics and perhaps follow a demonstration through again. Four circuit lessons isn't that many and the variations in the weather are likely to make you less accurate until you learn to anticipate/react as a second nature.
good luck.
The OP has had 4 lessons on circuits. Do share where somebody posting on a Private Flying forum is likely to be ab initio on jets
OP. It does take time. Know the datums and then try to relax and follow your instructor's advice. If it's not coming together, ask your instructor to go back to basics and perhaps follow a demonstration through again. Four circuit lessons isn't that many and the variations in the weather are likely to make you less accurate until you learn to anticipate/react as a second nature.
good luck.
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Hm, 4 lessons on circuits with how many landings?
When I read the post I took my log and looked it up - at the end of my 4th circuit lesson I had a total of 25 landings&T/G's ... when I passed my practical exam, I had 248. So don't worry and relax, it just takes time.
When I read the post I took my log and looked it up - at the end of my 4th circuit lesson I had a total of 25 landings&T/G's ... when I passed my practical exam, I had 248. So don't worry and relax, it just takes time.
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After more than 15,000 landings, I was still learning new things about how to land better. I'm well beyond that now, and I think I'm getting it! Give it time....
Have a read through the other recent thread on landing on this forum, lots of wisdom there.
Have a read through the other recent thread on landing on this forum, lots of wisdom there.
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CX
Firstly like the others say its early days
Firstly free up your mind i.e. be sure you know the pattern you are flying. don't use mental capacity because you are not sure where you are or where you are going.
Relax you hands, so many new pilots are tense and grip the controls as if they are hanging on for dear life.
it should be finger tip stuff
Make sure you have the power set for a slow cruise in the circuit with everything put away
look outside as well as your instrumentation some are glued to the panel
Make sure and this is very important that the aircraft is properly trimmed so its not climbing or descending! properly trimmed it should fly hands off maintaining altitude with very little input from you.
if its does drift off altitude don't be frightened to put it back where it should be with an I am the boss and in control movement!
hEADING take an object on the ground ahead on the line you are flying so you can visually navigate to that line offsetting the drift
But above all be smooth and relaxed and in command of the aircraft
Pace
Firstly like the others say its early days
Firstly free up your mind i.e. be sure you know the pattern you are flying. don't use mental capacity because you are not sure where you are or where you are going.
Relax you hands, so many new pilots are tense and grip the controls as if they are hanging on for dear life.
it should be finger tip stuff
Make sure you have the power set for a slow cruise in the circuit with everything put away
look outside as well as your instrumentation some are glued to the panel
Make sure and this is very important that the aircraft is properly trimmed so its not climbing or descending! properly trimmed it should fly hands off maintaining altitude with very little input from you.
if its does drift off altitude don't be frightened to put it back where it should be with an I am the boss and in control movement!
hEADING take an object on the ground ahead on the line you are flying so you can visually navigate to that line offsetting the drift
But above all be smooth and relaxed and in command of the aircraft
Pace
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You haven't mentioned the frequency of your flying. Do you fly often or is there a large gap between lessons? Most students flying circuits for the first time experience sensory overload, get highly stressed and some end up feeling very disappointed (even though they have perfectly memorised the circuit brief). This is an opportunity to go away, think about the lesson and organise your thoughts. Subsequent lessons always improve with familiarity. They improve drastically if you can fly multiple days each week (if not everyday). Repetition, repetition, repetition.
Students that leave 3 or 4 weeks between each lesson seldom improve on the previous flight.
@RAT5 lol - funny
Students that leave 3 or 4 weeks between each lesson seldom improve on the previous flight.
@RAT5 lol - funny
If you're over 75 or so, learning becomes slower, that's only to be expected. Most things come slower with age, yet offer all the more satisfaction.
(or, if you're NOT over 75, you could have told us)
(or, if you're NOT over 75, you could have told us)
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One big tip - learn to level off properly, I see so many people who do not do this then spend half the circuit fiddling with sorting speed and height. If you can climb and then start downwind at the right height, speed and properly trimmed you will then find you have the time for everything else!
As an experienced instructor I have frequently been brought in to help students struggling in the circuit. Every single time the problem was the fact that the foundation flying skills were not there, usually because the instructor had rushed through critical ex 5 to 9 manoeuvres and then progressed to the circuit too quickly.
To fly a proper circuit you have to be able to fly a balanced climb at a constant and correct airspeed, make a balanced climbing turn, level out and set the cruise attitude and trim and then manage a level turn a descending turn and a final approach with the aircraft pitch attitude set and held to maintain the target speed and with aircraft in balance and trimmed. If you are still struggling with this then you should not, IMO, be in the circuit
Before going to the circuit I always start by having the student fly some practice circuits in the practice area. The airport is set at 2000 ft AGL and circuit height is 3000 ft. The students starts at 2000 ft establishes a climb, turns 90 deg at 2500 ft turns again at 3000 for the "downwind" sets cruise power does the checks etc then turns on to a base leg starts the descent, turns to final and at 2200 performs a go around. He/she doesn't have to worry about finding the runway following traffic etc, they do concentrate on aircraft control.
The OP might suggest this to his instructor
To fly a proper circuit you have to be able to fly a balanced climb at a constant and correct airspeed, make a balanced climbing turn, level out and set the cruise attitude and trim and then manage a level turn a descending turn and a final approach with the aircraft pitch attitude set and held to maintain the target speed and with aircraft in balance and trimmed. If you are still struggling with this then you should not, IMO, be in the circuit
Before going to the circuit I always start by having the student fly some practice circuits in the practice area. The airport is set at 2000 ft AGL and circuit height is 3000 ft. The students starts at 2000 ft establishes a climb, turns 90 deg at 2500 ft turns again at 3000 for the "downwind" sets cruise power does the checks etc then turns on to a base leg starts the descent, turns to final and at 2200 performs a go around. He/she doesn't have to worry about finding the runway following traffic etc, they do concentrate on aircraft control.
The OP might suggest this to his instructor
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Having read several threads on similar subjects recently it seems to me that learning to fly is like losing your virginity.
You've read the books, surfed the web, (ahem) maybe watched a video or two, been told what to do and it seems that 'everyone else' has done it/is doing it without any problems.
Now you're in the circuit (for which read out on the pull), all tense, fumbling around and it just doesn't happen. To make matters worse, you have a chaperone watching your every move from the right hand seat.
The answer is perseverance and practice. One day it all just clicks and you have the rest of your life to enjoy it.
Seriously though, unless you are a true Sky God four lessons in the circuit are a small fraction of the ones you're going to need. I'm sure we all felt the same at this stage.
Good luck
You've read the books, surfed the web, (ahem) maybe watched a video or two, been told what to do and it seems that 'everyone else' has done it/is doing it without any problems.
Now you're in the circuit (for which read out on the pull), all tense, fumbling around and it just doesn't happen. To make matters worse, you have a chaperone watching your every move from the right hand seat.
The answer is perseverance and practice. One day it all just clicks and you have the rest of your life to enjoy it.
Seriously though, unless you are a true Sky God four lessons in the circuit are a small fraction of the ones you're going to need. I'm sure we all felt the same at this stage.
Good luck
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Here we go again.
There are currently three similar threads running along the same lines, ccts and landings. The simple truth is you will get it when you get it. No amount of posts here will make any difference to your own circumstances. If you are trying to remember what you read here whilst flying the cct rather than listening to what your skilled instructor is teaching, you'll only take longer. If you want to upset your instructor, try beginning a sentence with "I read on the Internet..." Hundreds of thousands have preceded you without the internet.
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Excellent post fujii, was about to say the exact same thing, as I am tempted to do every time someone posts on here asking for help. They get 10 different responses all saying different things, although in this one RAT 5's really takes the biscuit! 
Helpful as he/she was trying to be I cannot think what was going through their head when they wrote all that out!
Don't take any advice you read on an internet forum (except this bit
). Listen to your instructor.
Helpful as he/she was trying to be I cannot think what was going through their head when they wrote all that out! Don't take any advice you read on an internet forum (except this bit
). Listen to your instructor.
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1. Listen to your instructor
2. Keep the ball centered and the plane trimmed
3. Dont overthink the task
4 In the relationship between you and the plane "you are the boss, and it is the hoss" . If it ain't at TPA put it to TPA
5.Listen to your instructor more !!
2. Keep the ball centered and the plane trimmed
3. Dont overthink the task
4 In the relationship between you and the plane "you are the boss, and it is the hoss" . If it ain't at TPA put it to TPA
5.Listen to your instructor more !!
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Hi
Start worrying when you have a total of 30 hours of instruction. Don't rush things, flying is expensive and you are wondering where the money is going
There is some wisdom in what Big Pistons has mentioned.
I mentioned in another thread the use in the USA of ground reference maneuvers including rectangular patterns, turns around a point, and s turns along a road.
And perhaps you are just destined to take more time to learn than others.
Someone mentioned walking a circuit (pattern in the USA), you might try drawing the pattern by memory on a piece of paper with pencil (do you know what a pencil is?)
So, it takes time, MONEY, dedication from you to IMAGINE it on the ground.
And you might consider another instructor if you are not learning.
Again, some people have soloed in 4 hours, others 40. You will probably be somewhere in between.
Start worrying when you have a total of 30 hours of instruction. Don't rush things, flying is expensive and you are wondering where the money is going
There is some wisdom in what Big Pistons has mentioned.
I mentioned in another thread the use in the USA of ground reference maneuvers including rectangular patterns, turns around a point, and s turns along a road.
And perhaps you are just destined to take more time to learn than others.
Someone mentioned walking a circuit (pattern in the USA), you might try drawing the pattern by memory on a piece of paper with pencil (do you know what a pencil is?)
So, it takes time, MONEY, dedication from you to IMAGINE it on the ground.
And you might consider another instructor if you are not learning.
Again, some people have soloed in 4 hours, others 40. You will probably be somewhere in between.
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FWIW, I am a bit past the circuit stage, but when I was doing it I would study the handout every night. After each lesson I would go home and review what I did wrong, and why. I still do this now when I do practice circuits.
However, the day comes, when it all just clicks, and you will wonder why you found it so hard! Thats the day it starts becoming a motor skill and you are doing things, and reacting to situations without thinking about it! This is why I spend so much time memorising stuff away from the plane, so next time I dont have to think about it.
BTW, for me it took a bit longer than a younger student. You did not mention age, but a 40 year old will take longer than a 20 year old. Also, the more frequently you fly the less revision you do each lesson and the faster you pick it up.
However, the day comes, when it all just clicks, and you will wonder why you found it so hard! Thats the day it starts becoming a motor skill and you are doing things, and reacting to situations without thinking about it! This is why I spend so much time memorising stuff away from the plane, so next time I dont have to think about it.
BTW, for me it took a bit longer than a younger student. You did not mention age, but a 40 year old will take longer than a 20 year old. Also, the more frequently you fly the less revision you do each lesson and the faster you pick it up.
