Your view on a parking fee is sought

[aeroturbo]

I'd appreciate people's comments on this situation.


Let's say you are an LAA member flying a Permit single seater in the UK. You decide to visit an aerodrome that is just developing as a private destination from a former military history. It hence has long runways and lots of hangar space. Alas en route you develop a problem, land safely, and find the aircraft needs a spare part before it can fly again. Trailering it out is difficult - it means lots of work disassembling it, two trailer trips to a place that's not easy to reach with such a load, more work to re-assemble it, but the repair will be relatively simple when the part arrives. The part is ordered but takes several weeks to arrive. The weather is poor and flight over mountains is needed, so for a low time VFR pilot, the weather has to be good. Time passes. The aerodrome offers little help apart from some helpful home-builders based there who do kindly assist as far as they can. The aerodrome has strict security procedures and won't let you remain in the hangar if they decide to pack up for an early night.


The aerodrome decides to charge for parking, and charges are soon building up to a significant level. The aerodrome is also going to charge for every landing if you decide to have a local flight or two to ensure the repair is satisfactory before heading off over the mountains. You don't want to be there - you feels you're over a barrel.


Are you being taken advantage of? You're costing the aerodrome nothing. You've arranged insurance at the aerodrome's insistence. Should the aerodrome say "it's OK, we won't charge, leave it in the hangar as long as you like, we understand your predicament", or keep charging you?

[mad_jock]

Your choice to keep it there or not. As you say you could have trailered it out.

Expect to pay for hangerage and parking and any other service you use.

[worrab]

Talk to the airfield owners. See if you can agree a deal.

[9 lives]

Should the aerodrome say "it's OK, we won't charge, leave it in the hangar as long as you like, we understand your predicament", or keep charging you?

Free hangarage is very rare for any length of time. Think of it (and landing fees) differently: The person you're attempting to negotiate with probably wishes that they could afford to fly around in a plane they own. They will see it as cutting into their (the airport who pays them) income if they say "it's okay" and don't charge you. What's in it for them to not take fair payment for a service provided?

[this is my username]

The only reason you are there is because they have a runway and a hangar you can use - both of which cost them £££ and the costs have to be recovered from the people who are using them. Had it been a farmers field you would have trailered it out and got it home PDQ. Because your aircraft is in a hangar next to a runway you have made a decision that it is more convenient for you to leave it there rather than take it home - but why should the airfield pay for your convenience?

It's not nice when you end up in a situation like that and the costs start to hurt, but airfields are businesses and if you are using it you should expect to pay.

[foxmoth]

When using any sort of facility one of the first questions you should ask is "how much is this going to cost me" and you then make decisions based on that, no good getting upset afterwards if you did not do that.

[Jan Olieslagers]

If you didn't it worth its while to have easily removable wings when building/buying the plane, you'll have to pay the price for it. I can't imagine there's many such single seaters around, though.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've been in a similar situation, albeit not with a single seater, a couple of times.

I had a polite haggle to try and keep the bills sensible, and of-course to understand the size of the bill. Ultimately, they are legitimate businesses, and as I'm not a regular customer, they don't have a particular reason to cut me a lot of slack, so I couldn't really expect significant savings.

I paid the bill each time, said thanks for their help, and filed the bills mentally for future reference. Stranded aeroplanes are an expensive hobby however - although I also prefer not to trailer if I can avoid it, mostly because of the amount of damaged almost inevitably caused trailering any aircraft except in a specialist tailored trailer.

If you have such a trailer, you were daft not to de-rig it and take it home of-course. Taking the wings of pretty much any single seater is at most a couple of hours work.

G

[Sir George Cayley]

Llanbedr gan unrhyw gyfle?

SGC

[ecosse]

Not sure you've gave enough details, you should have told us the problem with the a/c and the type, this makes a huge difference...

but to answer the basic question is 100% yes you should pay something..

lets say you drove your car into my garage and went to drive away and it broke down, I would offer to fix it for you for a cost.

if you said no thanks, and asked is it ok to leave it here (inside of course its a classic car and made of wood) i would say yes no problem if its for a couple of days thats no problem.

if you then asked me to use my tools/space/car park etc etc.. and you want to wait and fix it your self once the parts arrive I would say you'd certainly be paying me something..

and why not you are using my garage which i pay rent/rates electricity etc..

then your parts arrive and you dont want to drive it home cause its raining

Jog On is what i'd say!!! pay up or park the sucker outside...

Now i'm a reasonable man and wouldn't take the *iss or actually leave someone high and dry like that,but if they took the *iss i'd leave there car outside, as its not my car why should i be responsible for it?

so unless you give us some more facts and figures we dont know if your being treated unfairly..

by the way..... can i come round and plug my caravan into your house for a few weeks to charge it up, get my fridge going and is it ok if i pop round after dark for a heat and a wee lie down lol!! pmsl!!

[aeroturbo]

Thanks for your views.

No, I don't want to identify the parties involved, I just wanted to get a few other viewpoints on the principle. I did simplify and disguise the situation a bit for the discussion, but it seems most are of the same opinion. That's fine, the bill will be paid.


It's only happened to us once in reverse when someone landed at our airfield with a problem. He got help and no charge. We don't charge any arrivals actually, we just ask for a charitable donation, but our costs are quite low and covered by the resident's fees and so we don't need the income. We feel the spirit of the LAA is less hard nosed commercial than this, and allegedly this aerodrome wants to attract LAA types; how they do it is up to them. Next time if it happens again at ours then perhaps we'll be less generous, and our charity will benefit more.

Thanks for all your replies, they are appreciated.

[9 lives]

It's only happened to us once in reverse when someone landed at our airfield with a problem. He got help and no charge. We don't charge any arrivals actually,

Everyone who has ever landed at my runway received the help I could offer, at no charge. That did not include putting their plane in my hangar. Though, if I had no plane there, I could give a couple of days. But, I own my runway and hangar outright, so I can make that offer. The fact that I can offer, does not mean someone else can, and I have no right to judge.

Last summer I broke down enroute passing through Quebec. I was awesomely treated, including the free loan of a truck to make a parts, and later hotel run, and free use of the shop tools. When I went to pay for the parts and materials I had used, I told them to add two hours of their shop rate to my bill. They seemed surprised - It was the least I could do, and I told them that. On the return leg the next week, I had my friend stop there with me for fuel, so they got the fuel sale for two planes. I have since recommended them to everyone who'll listen. Now I learn that I'll be able to secretly do the mechanic a favour for his plane next spring, he's got a happy surprise coming.

As of tomorrow, I own a hangared plane in England. I'm told I'm paying storage as of today. I'll have to ask how much, so I can cheerfully pay - it's Christmas time....

[piperboy84]

I've had a couple of refugees with bent props staying for a few months over the last year. There was plenty room in my hangar and flying is a hobby for me so I did not charge. Had it been a business I would have.

[mad_jock]

most of the time its not even the people your dealing with that have any say in the policy.

It will all go through a finance department and an accountant that has zero interest in aviation.

Your just an income stream.

[Piper.Classique]

We got stuck at a large french airfield due to bad weather and a u/s radio which meant waiting for good weather at a weekend when the multiple military zones were closed. The cub was tucked up in a nice warm hangar for three weeks.
No charge. We didn't expect it to be free, but it was a pleasant surprise. Sometimes people are uncommonly kind and helpful.

[this is my username]

I run an aviation business. Sometimes its the people who offer to pay for assistance without being asked are the ones who receive it for free - they have recognised that it is how I earn my living and that what I have done for them has value.

Conversely, the ones who think I have nothing better to do than chase round after them with no thanks are more likely to get a bill ...

Turn up at the strip I fly from on my days off and you will receive all the help in the world and I wouldn't dream of charging. Turn up at the airfield on a working day - well, those are the days on which I have to earn a living and pay for the premises.

[9 lives]

I run an aviation business. Sometimes its the people who offer to pay for assistance without being asked are the ones who receive it for free - they have recognised that it is how I earn my living and that what I have done for them has value.

Exactly the same for me. Every working day I'll probably spend as much as an hour on the phone/email with no charge to the person inquiring. In the long term, it comes around again, so I'm happy to do it. Nearly no one would have the nerve to ask me to provide my service no charge.

Though a few years back, a kindly old gentleman who owned a CHIPMUNK with a traumatized GYPSY MAJOR got two days of my service in exchange for nothing more than a ride (which I did not get before his passing). He just seemed the type of person who had worked his whole life in aviation, and serving Canada in the military, so it was time for him to feel appreciated. But he had offered to pay....

[BackPacker]

If you do happen to get stranded, talk to the owners/operators of the field as soon as possible. Explain that your plane might be stuck there for a few weeks while waiting for parts, and try to find out how you can make that happen with the lowest cost for you, and the least hassle for them.

If they know you're not going to fly for a few weeks, then they can stick you in a back corner of some far away hangar, not occupying prime real estate near the doors of the most popular hangar for instance. Or they may reduce your fee by parking outside, or even on grass instead of tarmac.

Heck, in some places hangars are rented out as a whole to certain groups - for instance a group of homebuilders. The airport authority doesn't have any say anymore as to how that hangar space is used, but they may be able to point you to their representative, so you can try and arrange something with them.

But yes, as far as I'm concerned they have the legal and moral right to charge you a parking fee.

[ChickenHouse]

I would say the crucial point is wether your stay is counted as security measure or not. If you do a safety landing i.e. due to weather or mechanics, you don't pay landing fee, if you are stranded by security, I would say same applies for parking. If you could have flown the plane out, either yourself or a more able airmen, I would say pay with no doubts. The trailer-it-out argument only holds for UL - I would say.

[foxmoth]

It's only happened to us once in reverse when someone landed at our airfield with a problem. He got help and no charge. We don't charge any arrivals actually, we just ask for a charitable donation, but our costs are quite low and covered by the resident's fees and so we don't need the income.

I think it is commendable that you did not charge and the same could be said of the airfield you are talking about if they had done the same - but just because you do things one way does not mean you should expect others to do the same!