Stolen plane crashes in Jasper, US
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 34
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stolen plane crashes in Jasper, US
From Sky News. Utterly stupid to even consider doing this.
Alabama: 'Joyride' Plane Crash Kills Teens
Authorities say the Piper PA 30 came down in a wooded area near Jasper, northwest of Birmingham, on Tuesday night.
Walker County Airport manager Edwin Banks said: "It was a student pilot flying an airplane without permission, an airplane that he was not qualified to fly at night."
The teenage pilot had flown a single-engine airplane in the past, and the plane that crashed was a double-engine one, Mr Banks said.
Walker County sheriff's Chief Deputy James Painter said investigators believe the "teenagers who stole the plane and were sort of joyriding it".
"I think they were just looking for a thrill and they had their last one," he said.
Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said the plane crashed less than a mile from the Walker County Airport.
The names of the three occupants of the plane have not been released.
The Piper PA 30 is also called a Piper Twin Comanche. It is a low-wing plane with two propellers and can seat four to six, depending on the model.
The planes were built from 1963 until 1972, and were popular with flight schools because of their fuel efficiency and relatively inexpensive price tags, according to the International Comanche Society, an enthusiasts' group.
Alabama: 'Joyride' Plane Crash Kills Teens
Authorities say the Piper PA 30 came down in a wooded area near Jasper, northwest of Birmingham, on Tuesday night.
Walker County Airport manager Edwin Banks said: "It was a student pilot flying an airplane without permission, an airplane that he was not qualified to fly at night."
The teenage pilot had flown a single-engine airplane in the past, and the plane that crashed was a double-engine one, Mr Banks said.
Walker County sheriff's Chief Deputy James Painter said investigators believe the "teenagers who stole the plane and were sort of joyriding it".
"I think they were just looking for a thrill and they had their last one," he said.
Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said the plane crashed less than a mile from the Walker County Airport.
The names of the three occupants of the plane have not been released.
The Piper PA 30 is also called a Piper Twin Comanche. It is a low-wing plane with two propellers and can seat four to six, depending on the model.
The planes were built from 1963 until 1972, and were popular with flight schools because of their fuel efficiency and relatively inexpensive price tags, according to the International Comanche Society, an enthusiasts' group.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A teen pilot killed along with two friends in an Alabama plane crash had his own key to the aircraft and had flown it many times, his mother said Wednesday, denying authorities' assertion that the plane had been taken without permission.
Sherrie Smith said her 17-year-old son Jordan Smith was the one flying the plane that went down in the Alabama woods Tuesday night. The Federal Aviation Administration said the Piper PA 30 crashed less than a mile from the Walker County Airport in Jasper, which is northwest of Birmingham.
Smith says the owner of the plane had let her son fly it many other times and had given him his own key. Her son was a high school junior who fell in love with flying at an early age and was one test short of earning his private pilot's license.
Sherrie Smith said her 17-year-old son Jordan Smith was the one flying the plane that went down in the Alabama woods Tuesday night. The Federal Aviation Administration said the Piper PA 30 crashed less than a mile from the Walker County Airport in Jasper, which is northwest of Birmingham.
Smith says the owner of the plane had let her son fly it many other times and had given him his own key. Her son was a high school junior who fell in love with flying at an early age and was one test short of earning his private pilot's license.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rennes
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A teen pilot killed along with two friends in an Alabama plane crash had his own key to the aircraft and had flown it many times, his mother said Wednesday, denying authorities' assertion that the plane had been taken without permission.
Even so, the generous owner might have some questions of his own to answer. Does the FAA even issue SPLs for twin-engined aircraft? My understanding is that the U.S. aeroplane SPL is exclusively for single-engined aircraft under 12,500 lb. Once the PPL has been gained, one can then add the twin rating, if one likes. If this is so, why were the keys to the aircraft given to the teenager, if not to enable him to fly the Comanche solo at a time when he was not licenced to do so under any circumstances?
A sad story all round. One doesn't expect a lot of maturity of a seventeen-year-old, but if he was as close to the PPL as is claimed, how could he not have known that the chances of his own and his friends' survival were almost zero?
There is no regulation stopping you from solo-ing in a Twin engine airplane.
Highly unlikely as no insurance company would allow this so unless it is your own airplane it's not gonna happen.
Probably the owner let him fly the airplane under supervision.
Maybe his mother does not know which airplane he flew for training.
My mother for sure did not know what type I was flying.
Anyway, concur with
Highly unlikely as no insurance company would allow this so unless it is your own airplane it's not gonna happen.
Probably the owner let him fly the airplane under supervision.
Maybe his mother does not know which airplane he flew for training.
My mother for sure did not know what type I was flying.
Anyway, concur with
chances of his own and his friends' survival were almost zero
Just a guess, but what if he had a games console with 'Flight Simulator' software; having flown this he might be misled into thinking he could fly the real thing. But why the hell he had keys to the aircraft I don't know; maybe he used to clean it for the owner in return for flights.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most twins do not have keys other than for locking the doors and nose holds.
A lot do not bother even locking the doors! But most do not use a key start
Pace
A lot do not bother even locking the doors! But most do not use a key start
Pace
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rennes
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B2N2 is correct. Looking up FAR Part 61, I find that not only is it legal to do one's ab initio training in a multi-engined aircraft, but it's also legal for a student pilot to fly a multi solo at night, if he can find an instructor unhinged enough to endorse his certificate authorising him to do it.
Which leads to the next question: did the deceased have an instructor endorsement permitting him to fly the Comanche? If not, then the owner would seem to come back into the regulatory cross hairs.
Which leads to the next question: did the deceased have an instructor endorsement permitting him to fly the Comanche? If not, then the owner would seem to come back into the regulatory cross hairs.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Douglas Flat, CA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the latest news reports, the airplane owner has denied giving the young man permission to fly the airplane, and has said that the airplane was stolen:
Three teens die in plane crash while "joyriding" near Jasper, authorities say (updated gallery and video) | al.com
The plane's owner confirmed on Wednesday that the plane had been stolen, Walker County Sheriff's Chief Deputy James Painter said.
The first plane I took lessons in was based at a small field and run by a freelance instructor who had a difficult relationship with Transport Canada that was not apparent to me at the time.
I had booked a lesson on the weekend, but got a call from the instructor asking if I knew where a workmate who was also taking lessons was -- and was also told that the plane was missing; so the lesson had to be postponed.
That evening I was having a coffee with my sis and looking at the late night paper when I spotted a piccie of "my" plane in a ball on a flatbed trailer. The registration was visible.
One of his students was a young fella with a couple kids already who at a party one dark and stormy night, persuaded a buddy or two to go flying with him. They ended up not far away in a ball of metal that you could put your arms around.
The instructor was phoning his student list to see who was alive to pick up the phone.
I had booked a lesson on the weekend, but got a call from the instructor asking if I knew where a workmate who was also taking lessons was -- and was also told that the plane was missing; so the lesson had to be postponed.
That evening I was having a coffee with my sis and looking at the late night paper when I spotted a piccie of "my" plane in a ball on a flatbed trailer. The registration was visible.
One of his students was a young fella with a couple kids already who at a party one dark and stormy night, persuaded a buddy or two to go flying with him. They ended up not far away in a ball of metal that you could put your arms around.
The instructor was phoning his student list to see who was alive to pick up the phone.
Last edited by RatherBeFlying; 3rd Jan 2013 at 18:47.
This mishap is local to me and I'm interested to see the discussion here. Officially, y'all know as much as we do...
I heard today that the tail number of the aircraft is N7700Y.
AviationDB.com:
AviationDB - Aviation Database - N7700Y
FAA Registry:
FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry
This N-number was deregistered at the time of the crash. A friend of mine put the number into a "flight tracker database" online (I disremember which one) and it suggested that the last flightplan was March 2012 from central Florida (Orlando??) to Jasper, Alabama and presumably the aircraft has been inactive since then. I speculate that the aircraft was purchased in Florida and flown up to Jasper where it was stored at Walker County Airport (AKA Bevill Field).
I did a quick look atthe NTSB database on this N-number for this accident and came up with nothing. It may be too early, or I may have been looking at the wrong thing (not a pilot, just "interested SLF"
).
--Bill
I heard today that the tail number of the aircraft is N7700Y.
AviationDB.com:
AviationDB - Aviation Database - N7700Y
FAA Registry:
FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry
This N-number was deregistered at the time of the crash. A friend of mine put the number into a "flight tracker database" online (I disremember which one) and it suggested that the last flightplan was March 2012 from central Florida (Orlando??) to Jasper, Alabama and presumably the aircraft has been inactive since then. I speculate that the aircraft was purchased in Florida and flown up to Jasper where it was stored at Walker County Airport (AKA Bevill Field).
I did a quick look atthe NTSB database on this N-number for this accident and came up with nothing. It may be too early, or I may have been looking at the wrong thing (not a pilot, just "interested SLF"
).--Bill
Last edited by Bill Harris; 4th Jan 2013 at 04:06.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Douglas Flat, CA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did a quick look atthe NTSB database on this N-number for this accident and came up with nothing. It may be too early, or I may have been looking at the wrong thing
For a fatal accident, and especially one like this where certain facts are in dispute, the final synopsis and the statement of probable cause will probably not be posted for about a year.
My interest in this crash is almost entirely because it appears to have achieved the trifecta of bad judgement: A student pilot and his friends joyriding in a complex twin-engined airplane at night and in bad weather. There is virtually no chance that it could have turned out anything but badly.
Bill,
FlightAware
FYI Flightaware generally does not show VFR flights.
Depends on how the tailnumber is put into the system by the ATC controller who handles it I guess.
So it could have flown every day since, just not on an IFR flight plan.
Instrument flight rules - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As far as the registration is concerned, that one appears to be pending due to a change of ownership.
It can take either 90 or 120 days for new registered owners to make it through the system.
Duration: 3 hours 8 minutes
Wednesday, March 28, 2012
Wednesday, March 28, 2012
FYI Flightaware generally does not show VFR flights.
Depends on how the tailnumber is put into the system by the ATC controller who handles it I guess.
So it could have flown every day since, just not on an IFR flight plan.
Instrument flight rules - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As far as the registration is concerned, that one appears to be pending due to a change of ownership.
It can take either 90 or 120 days for new registered owners to make it through the system.
Last edited by B2N2; 4th Jan 2013 at 15:06.
From the Daily Mountain Eagle (Jasper newspaper):
Daily Mountain Eagle - Investigation into deadly plane crash continues
--Bill
According to FAA records, the plane had its registration canceled in 2010.
The FAA released information Thursday afternoon that the plane’s last owner was HiFlight Aviation, LLC, of Jasper. Sale documents and a registration application with the FAA were dated May 2010.
The FAA said the application was returned to HiFlight for corrections on June 28, 2010, and the registration was placed in pending status.
After receiving no response from HiFlight Aviation, the FAA canceled the registration and put a five-year hold on the aircraft’s N-number, which is a code used by the FAA to license an airplane.
The FAA released information Thursday afternoon that the plane’s last owner was HiFlight Aviation, LLC, of Jasper. Sale documents and a registration application with the FAA were dated May 2010.
The FAA said the application was returned to HiFlight for corrections on June 28, 2010, and the registration was placed in pending status.
After receiving no response from HiFlight Aviation, the FAA canceled the registration and put a five-year hold on the aircraft’s N-number, which is a code used by the FAA to license an airplane.
--Bill
Thanks.
It keeps getting better.
Obviously not relevant to the accident pilot but if the airplane does not have a valid registration certificate it may not be flown.
So curious how many flights the airplane owner has made since June, 2010.
Or any other licensed pilot in that plane for that matter.
To be continued.......
It keeps getting better.
Obviously not relevant to the accident pilot but if the airplane does not have a valid registration certificate it may not be flown.
So curious how many flights the airplane owner has made since June, 2010.
Or any other licensed pilot in that plane for that matter.
To be continued.......
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Douglas Flat, CA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lawyer: Plane owner didn’t approve deadly Jasper, Ala. flight
MONTGOMERY — An attorney for the owner of a plane in Jasper said Friday he never gave approval for a late-night flight that crashed and killed three teenagers.
So the airplane owner is lawyered up, and pretty soon the mom probably will be too. He will argue that the boy had been given neither a key to the airplane nor permission to fly it. The mom will argue otherwise, and her attorney will probably also assert that the inadequately-secured airplane constituted an "attractive nuisance." It will become a big he-said-she-said in court, and the prime evidence will be forensic analysis of the keys (if any) recovered from the crash site and their correspondence (or lack thereof) to the airplanes locks.
Here is the news of the preliminary NTSB report, from a local (B'ham) TV station:
The story has developed pretty much as "knowledgeable local people" had speculated.
--Bill
NTSB report: Jasper pilot took plane without permission before crash
JASPER, AL (WBRC) -
A report filed by the NTSB says an airplane that crashed on January 1 was taken without permission from the Walker County Airport by a student pilot. The crash claimed the life of the 17-year-old pilot and two passengers.
According to the report, the owner of the airplane told investigators that he knew the student pilot from his work at the airport. He said that he never gave permission to the pilot to fly the airplane nor did he ever take the pilot flying in the airplane. The plane's owner says that the plane was kept unlocked, but the 17-year-old did not have a key.
The manager of the Walker County Airport says the pilot had been working as a cleanup worker at the airport in exchange for flying lessons. The 17-year-old had completed his first solo flight on April 27, 2012 and did not received any more flight lessons from the manager after that flight. The plane used to train the student pilot was said to be a single engine Cessna C-172.
Here is the transcript of the full report:
*** Note: NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report. ***
On January 1, 2013, about 2240 central standard time, a twin engine Piper PA-30, N7700Y, collided with terrain during an uncontrolled descent in Jasper, Alabama. The student pilot and two passengers were fatally injured, and the airplane was destroyed. The airplane was unregistered, and is owned by a private individual. The unauthorized flight was conducted in night, instrument meteorological conditions and no flight plan was filed. The flight departed from Walker County Airport-Bevill Field, Jasper, Alabama, at 2235.
Witnesses stated that on the night of the accident, it was dark and raining. They heard the airplane flying very low and, shortly thereafter they heard a loud crash. The witnesses called 911 and reported that the airplane had crashed.
According to the airport manager/instructor, the pilot worked as a cleanup person at the airport in trade for flight lessons. The airport manager said that student pilot completed his first solo flight on April 27, 2012. He also said that the student pilot received his flight lessons in a single engine Cessna C-172 airplane. After the student pilot's solo, he no longer received lessons from the airport manager.
The owner of the airplane stated that he knew the student pilot from his work at the airport. He went on to say that he never gave permission to the student pilot to fly his airplane. The owner was asked if he ever took the student pilot flying in his airplane and he responded "no." He said that the student pilot did not have a key for his airplane and it was not typically locked. On the night of the accident, the owner was informed that his airplane was missing from the airport. When he arrived at the airport, he verified that his airplane was missing and reported that it was last seen on December 23, 2012.
According to preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration, no air traffic control assistance and no radio transmissions were made by the pilot prior to the accident.
NTSB report: Jasper pilot took plane without permission before c
JASPER, AL (WBRC) -
A report filed by the NTSB says an airplane that crashed on January 1 was taken without permission from the Walker County Airport by a student pilot. The crash claimed the life of the 17-year-old pilot and two passengers.
According to the report, the owner of the airplane told investigators that he knew the student pilot from his work at the airport. He said that he never gave permission to the pilot to fly the airplane nor did he ever take the pilot flying in the airplane. The plane's owner says that the plane was kept unlocked, but the 17-year-old did not have a key.
The manager of the Walker County Airport says the pilot had been working as a cleanup worker at the airport in exchange for flying lessons. The 17-year-old had completed his first solo flight on April 27, 2012 and did not received any more flight lessons from the manager after that flight. The plane used to train the student pilot was said to be a single engine Cessna C-172.
Here is the transcript of the full report:
*** Note: NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report. ***
On January 1, 2013, about 2240 central standard time, a twin engine Piper PA-30, N7700Y, collided with terrain during an uncontrolled descent in Jasper, Alabama. The student pilot and two passengers were fatally injured, and the airplane was destroyed. The airplane was unregistered, and is owned by a private individual. The unauthorized flight was conducted in night, instrument meteorological conditions and no flight plan was filed. The flight departed from Walker County Airport-Bevill Field, Jasper, Alabama, at 2235.
Witnesses stated that on the night of the accident, it was dark and raining. They heard the airplane flying very low and, shortly thereafter they heard a loud crash. The witnesses called 911 and reported that the airplane had crashed.
According to the airport manager/instructor, the pilot worked as a cleanup person at the airport in trade for flight lessons. The airport manager said that student pilot completed his first solo flight on April 27, 2012. He also said that the student pilot received his flight lessons in a single engine Cessna C-172 airplane. After the student pilot's solo, he no longer received lessons from the airport manager.
The owner of the airplane stated that he knew the student pilot from his work at the airport. He went on to say that he never gave permission to the student pilot to fly his airplane. The owner was asked if he ever took the student pilot flying in his airplane and he responded "no." He said that the student pilot did not have a key for his airplane and it was not typically locked. On the night of the accident, the owner was informed that his airplane was missing from the airport. When he arrived at the airport, he verified that his airplane was missing and reported that it was last seen on December 23, 2012.
According to preliminary information obtained from the Federal Aviation Administration, no air traffic control assistance and no radio transmissions were made by the pilot prior to the accident.
NTSB report: Jasper pilot took plane without permission before c
--Bill
Last edited by Bill Harris; 10th Jan 2013 at 15:36.
So the airplane owner is lawyered up, and pretty soon the mom probably will be too. He will argue that the boy had been given neither a key to the airplane nor permission to fly it. The mom will argue otherwise, and her attorney will probably also assert that the inadequately-secured airplane constituted an "attractive nuisance." It will become a big he-said-she-said in court, and the prime evidence will be forensic analysis of the keys (if any) recovered from the crash site and their correspondence (or lack thereof) to the airplanes locks.
This event seems to (tragically) be little more than a teenage show-off and his unthinking friends doing something extremely stupid.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Take that to it's 'logical' conclusion and you might have a lawyer trying to sue the aircraft manufacturer for building the aircraft.