Crossing ATZ above 2000ft - need to call in?
Stapleford is not FISO as Wsempson says but A/G. On LARS North or East I would tell pilots to 'keep your own separation from XXXX ATZ', which reminds the pilot he/she is approaching an active ATZ, and gives them leeway to either avoid or call for transit. Unfortunately the powers that be disagreed with this phraeology, hence 'you are approaching XXXX ATZ, what are your intentions? became the official CAP413 words.
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My solution is to not fly in that area
Otherwise, I would pass N of Stapleford at 1400 ft, well outside their ATZ and keeping a very good lookout (an awful lot of UK GA flies at 1000-1500ft) and getting out of there really fast.
Otherwise, I would pass N of Stapleford at 1400 ft, well outside their ATZ and keeping a very good lookout (an awful lot of UK GA flies at 1000-1500ft) and getting out of there really fast.
Overfly Stapleford and keep a listening watch on the radio. Much safer.
And don't forget the circuit height is 1100ft, so you'd only be a maximum of 400ft above it.
However, dont forget jet circuit traffic at NW flies at 1000 feet AAL (1300 QNH) so your seperation form them is only 100 feet!
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Technically, that would put you inside Stansted's airspace (1500 feet and above)! In reality it's 300 feet seperation.
However, dont forget jet circuit traffic at NW flies at 1000 feet AAL (1300 QNH) so your seperation form them is only 100 feet!
However, dont forget jet circuit traffic at NW flies at 1000 feet AAL (1300 QNH) so your seperation form them is only 100 feet!
Didn't know jets are 1000ft AAL at NW though. And I've been there 2 years !
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Hi Adam, I've flown over or close to Stapleford many times and do usually transfer to Stapleford Radio - particularly if Farnborough suggest it, as they may have noticed radar traces in the area with no altitude readouts. On a "Basic Service", Stapleford will generally confirm their QNH, runway in use and any known circuit, joining or over-flying traffic. I have never found them anything but helpful and indeed grateful for your call when you transfer back to Farnborough, as you're helping them maintain awareness of what you're up to. As others have said, it's good airmanship to keep others aware of your whereabouts and intentions and since the local traffic will probably be on 122.8 and not a Farnborough frequency, you get the information first-hand and can visualise any potential conflicts. In practice I fly at 2300ft, 2-3nm to the south of Stapleford (using DME from the LAM VOR), which avoids any of the North Weald / 1500ft stuff mentioned elsewhere, keeps you just north of the London City control area, and is also outside the 2nm radius of Stapleford's ATZ as well as being above it.
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General rule of thumb:
Unless instructed otherwise by ATC, talk to the facility for the area that you are currently in, or about to go in
If you follow this rule you can't go too far wrong.
Unless instructed otherwise by ATC, talk to the facility for the area that you are currently in, or about to go in
If you follow this rule you can't go too far wrong.
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Didn't know jets are 1000ft AAL at NW though. And I've been there 2 years !
NoD
OK - I didn't want to put maximum of 399ft!
That was not a serious comment btw!!
Didn't know jets are 1000ft AAL at NW though. And I've been there 2 years !
Even safer to get Class D zone transit and have up to 2500' available.
Anybody tried or done this?
Anybody tried or done this?
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Come and visit us in the Tower one day, we have tea and coffee and hardly ever get a visitor!
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To answer the original question.............when I flew from Stapleford it was usual to do a downwind join at 1200'. The safest place to cross would be across the middle at 2200' because other aircraft joining would be quite a bit lower over the top of the airfield whatever the runway and direction of approach.
I suggest that it would be good practise to call and let them know, thereby letting other people know at the same time. Instructors particularly are used listening out for that sort of message and hopefully anyone else crossing LAM would be listening out as well.
I don't think that the possibility of hearing a gruff response should put you off - it can't be as gruff now as it was when I was there!
I suggest that it would be good practise to call and let them know, thereby letting other people know at the same time. Instructors particularly are used listening out for that sort of message and hopefully anyone else crossing LAM would be listening out as well.
I don't think that the possibility of hearing a gruff response should put you off - it can't be as gruff now as it was when I was there!
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On a "Basic Service", Stapleford will generally confirm their QNH, runway in use and any known circuit, joining or over-flying traffic
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Just a quick off-topic question to clarify something. Stapleford are A/G so are not able to give a Basic Serice, is that right? I fly from a busy A/G airfield in the South East and have never heard any type of service given (although one chap once asked for a Traffic Service!).
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Concur with IO540. Better to stay with Farnborough, who can provide some type of service. Hopefully their radar screens have conflict software. Calling Stapleford only blocks their frequency and serves to distract attention.
In any event what would Stapleford ATC reply say on a busy day, "6 in circuit, 8 joining and traffic in transit height unknown"? Not much help.
flyme.
In any event what would Stapleford ATC reply say on a busy day, "6 in circuit, 8 joining and traffic in transit height unknown"? Not much help.
flyme.
Avoid imitations
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There is no ATC at an A/G station.
But I wouldn't fly through the overhead of any airfield at that relatively low altitude without at least announcing my presence on the frequency.
But I wouldn't fly through the overhead of any airfield at that relatively low altitude without at least announcing my presence on the frequency.
look out
I just cant get my head round some pilots need to use the radio so much. Every time some one is looking in to change the frequency on their radio they are not looking out. I would only dial up the frequency if I was thinking I might have to land or might need to call for a transit. Apart from that I would prefer to be on a frequency that has radar or simply look out.
bb
bb
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The ones that worry me most are the ones who rely on so-called lookout but have little understanding of the limitations of human eyesight in an aviation context.
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Seems to me two competing arguments;
1) Call the airfield to let them know you're transiting.
- Risk is you're heads-down switching frequencies, also you're no longer getting wider traffic info from LARS.
2) Stay with the LARS frequency.
- Risk is airfield traffic doesn't know you're transiting. Also you don't know any special airfield activity.
Which risk is higher? Very difficult to say.. especially in the case referred to with North Weald so close by.
1) Call the airfield to let them know you're transiting.
- Risk is you're heads-down switching frequencies, also you're no longer getting wider traffic info from LARS.
2) Stay with the LARS frequency.
- Risk is airfield traffic doesn't know you're transiting. Also you don't know any special airfield activity.
Which risk is higher? Very difficult to say.. especially in the case referred to with North Weald so close by.
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Competing arguments yes, but this is a very busy corner for traffic going around London using LAM (which is on the airfield for those that don't know). A call might alert sombody doing the same thing as you.
Sorry chaps I cannot understand why you would not call, and as for selecting the frequency, this could be one button push.
Maybe some of you are not familiar with this area. It's very busy with lots of controlled airspace and I would certainly use the radio as much as necessary to let appropriate stations know my intentions.
Sorry chaps I cannot understand why you would not call, and as for selecting the frequency, this could be one button push.
Maybe some of you are not familiar with this area. It's very busy with lots of controlled airspace and I would certainly use the radio as much as necessary to let appropriate stations know my intentions.