Has anybody out there flown a FRED?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Has anybody out there flown a FRED?
I mentioned how cheap a FRED is to buy and operate to a person looking for advice on aircraft purchase on Pprune. I am now thinking of buying one myself. Apart from being a good excuse to get a Biggles jacket and a silk scarf I really would like an open cockpit aeroplane for the summer (hah, what summer?). I have heard that they climb like a stunned pig with the VW engine, I have also heard that they lack directional stability due to the all-flying fin. On the plus side, the wings fold so hangerage costs less and you can buy engine parts from your local VW dealer instead of messers Continental or Lycoming.
Anybody out there actually owned or flown one?
Anybody out there actually owned or flown one?
Guest
Posts: n/a
never flown a fred,but the thing has a permit,and the origional is still flying 30 years on,also worth looking at as regards affordable flying
1.T31 motor tudor
2,luton minor
both types have vw,s both available cheaply both more fun than a waterslide,check the back of the pfa mag for availability..
1.T31 motor tudor
2,luton minor
both types have vw,s both available cheaply both more fun than a waterslide,check the back of the pfa mag for availability..
Guest
Posts: n/a
I've owned a couple of Luton Minors (300+ hours) and used to fly alongside a FRED regularly. The FRED was not quite as good as the Minor (dreadful glide angle at idle power unlike the Minor) but still gave it's owner bags of fun. If the wing fold is still available it must be a definite plus over the Minor. I remember the FRED pilots frequently complaing about how awkward it was to fill the fuel tank up on top of the wing. It had a bl00dy good endurance though!
Regards
wizzy
Regards
wizzy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Its hard to imagine anything having worse performance than a Luton Minor! There are lots of VW powered aircraft, some better than others, but they should all cost about the same to run. If the FRED costs a lot less than other VWs, then as yourself why.
When FRED is flying it should be great fun flying for small ££, but I would recommend that you fly within a group to keep the costs and time commitments to a minimum.
Some other VW single seat aircraft to consider:
Tipsy Nipper (Aerobatic!)
Jodel D9 Bebe
Turbulent
Taylor Monoplane
Luton Minor
Evans VP1 (or 2 seat VP2)
etc. etc. etc.
When FRED is flying it should be great fun flying for small ££, but I would recommend that you fly within a group to keep the costs and time commitments to a minimum.
Some other VW single seat aircraft to consider:
Tipsy Nipper (Aerobatic!)
Jodel D9 Bebe
Turbulent
Taylor Monoplane
Luton Minor
Evans VP1 (or 2 seat VP2)
etc. etc. etc.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the comments folks. I was giving the FRED preference cos I'm 6' tall and weigh between 14 1/2 and 15 stone (depending on Guinness intake). I don't think I could squeeze into most of the ones you've mentioned Dan Dare. The FRED is the only one I've stood next to that didn't look like it would break when I got into it. The Turbulent is another possible contender but I don't think an aircraft with no springs or bungees in the undercart could take too many of what I like to call landings.
wsiwyg, what speed did the FRED cuise at? I have heard that the Luton Minor cruises at around 100mph but the FRED looks to draggy to manage this on a VW engine. Interested to hear about the lack of glide performance, that could make an engine failure interesting.....
wsiwyg, what speed did the FRED cuise at? I have heard that the Luton Minor cruises at around 100mph but the FRED looks to draggy to manage this on a VW engine. Interested to hear about the lack of glide performance, that could make an engine failure interesting.....
Guest
Posts: n/a
How to make a Motor tutor :-
1. Take one T31 glider (open cockpit, tandem, two seater)
2. Chop off front cockpit.
3. Put fuel tank and VW where front cockpit was.
4. 50 knots, 5 quid per hour, lots of fun!!!
P.S. the best single seater has to be the Currie Wot
1. Take one T31 glider (open cockpit, tandem, two seater)
2. Chop off front cockpit.
3. Put fuel tank and VW where front cockpit was.
4. 50 knots, 5 quid per hour, lots of fun!!!
P.S. the best single seater has to be the Currie Wot
Guest
Posts: n/a
LowNSlow, your self description would be quite accurate for me too! No problem in a Luton LA4, nor Jodel D9. I think 100mph would be optimistic in any VW (correct me if I'm wrong!). I seem to remember FRED at 60kt ish. Ditto Luton. Jodel/Turb can cruise at 80kt, but at quite a cost in fuel (up to 10 litres per hour!)
Good luck with the choice!
Good luck with the choice!
Guest
Posts: n/a
LnS - Turbs are often a bit limited with regards to pilot weight. 100 mph from a Luton Minor is fantasy.
Luton/FRED/VP1 = about 60kts
Turbulent = a bit faster
Jodel D9/Taylor Mono = faster still
Colibri = warp factor 9
No single seat Vee Dub powered aircraft is a good fit for a big pilot. The Motorised T31 is probably the worst performer of the lot but by my reckoning that would probably make it the most fun! The cheapest to buy would definitely be the T31 or the FRED. Both have the added advantage of being able to be derigged for cheap hangarage but this is probably easier with the FRED. All this talk is really making me miss this kind of flying. I move back to the UK at the end of the year. I could be tempted to become a syndicate partner!
Regards
wizzy
Luton/FRED/VP1 = about 60kts
Turbulent = a bit faster
Jodel D9/Taylor Mono = faster still
Colibri = warp factor 9
No single seat Vee Dub powered aircraft is a good fit for a big pilot. The Motorised T31 is probably the worst performer of the lot but by my reckoning that would probably make it the most fun! The cheapest to buy would definitely be the T31 or the FRED. Both have the added advantage of being able to be derigged for cheap hangarage but this is probably easier with the FRED. All this talk is really making me miss this kind of flying. I move back to the UK at the end of the year. I could be tempted to become a syndicate partner!
Regards
wizzy
Guest
Posts: n/a
100 mph in a Luton Minor!!!!!!!!!
(Picks myself off of floor).
You have got to be kidding!
Having also owned shares in a couple of Luton Minors and flown alongside a Fred I have to agree with wizzy (I MUST know you!).
Low and Slow you are probably too heavy for a Luton Minor unless its got an uprated engine on it.
The 1600cc VW has about a 11/12 stone limit on it, not much more on the 1800cc and with that the climb performance is going to be crap (yes, even more crap than usual!)
You may have problems climbing into a Luton.
Cruise is around 40-60mph usually.
Damn good fun. Endurance is more a case of human endurance, certainly in the cooler months.
A cheap fun machine though. 2 gallons of fuel per hour.
I agree that its best to buy into a group or start a group if you can, to share out the costs and also the maintenance, etc.
(Picks myself off of floor).
You have got to be kidding!
Having also owned shares in a couple of Luton Minors and flown alongside a Fred I have to agree with wizzy (I MUST know you!).
Low and Slow you are probably too heavy for a Luton Minor unless its got an uprated engine on it.
The 1600cc VW has about a 11/12 stone limit on it, not much more on the 1800cc and with that the climb performance is going to be crap (yes, even more crap than usual!)
You may have problems climbing into a Luton.
Cruise is around 40-60mph usually.
Damn good fun. Endurance is more a case of human endurance, certainly in the cooler months.
A cheap fun machine though. 2 gallons of fuel per hour.
I agree that its best to buy into a group or start a group if you can, to share out the costs and also the maintenance, etc.
Guest
Posts: n/a
From the above comments I think I mixed up the Luton Minor and the Taylor Monoplane!
I find the folding wing option attractive cos I could take it home and not have to pay hangerage fees making it even cheaper than the Cub.
Anybody out there looking for a nice Cub? Just having it's annual, new struts, all the paintwork sorted (my eyelashes are still yellow, I draw the line at putting thinners on my eyes), prop revarnished and balanced (yes, I did finish it eventually). Mmmm, maybe I don't want to sell it anymore.
I find the folding wing option attractive cos I could take it home and not have to pay hangerage fees making it even cheaper than the Cub.
Anybody out there looking for a nice Cub? Just having it's annual, new struts, all the paintwork sorted (my eyelashes are still yellow, I draw the line at putting thinners on my eyes), prop revarnished and balanced (yes, I did finish it eventually). Mmmm, maybe I don't want to sell it anymore.