LARS Map

[kevwal]

Hi

Has anyone seen a decent Map of the UK LARS around?

I have the list of services from the AIP along with Service Radius, etc, and I have seen the map showing the new Farnborough LARS with it's slightly complicated boundaries, but I have not seen a single decent map anywhere?

Thanks
Kev

[tinpilot]

ENR 6_1_6_3 any use to you?

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/cu...6_1_6_3_en.pdf
(11.9MB .pdf)

[Bertie Thruster]

Not sure if you would consider it a 'map' but there is a 'Lars Coverage Diagram' in the AIP.

[kevwal]

I found a (broken) link to an old AIP saying it had a map, but I have just read the LARS section of the AIP (1-6-3-3) and I didn't see a diagram. Am I being blind, or has it been taken out of recent versions, or?

Thanks
Kev

[kevwal]

Thanks Tin, got it.

1-6-3-3 which lists all of these refers only to 6-1-6-3 for the new Farnborough service, the MMARS section refers to its map in 6-1-6-4 though!

Thanks
Kev

[Genghis the Engineer]

I carry the little A5 one out of Pooleys in my kneeboard. Basic, but works and hasn't let me down yet.

G

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Not enough detail on these diagrams to match up with the real features on the ground though ... I think these maps are saying that if I fly from Cambridge to overhead Felixstowe then even on a weekday there's no LARS coverage at all for pretty well the entire trip.

[FREDAcheck]

I think these maps are saying that if I fly from Cambridge to overhead Felixstowe then even on a weekday there's no LARS coverage at all for pretty well the entire trip.

Well, if you will pick one of the few bits of England without LARS...

However, once out of range of Cambridge App, try Lakenheath, then Wattisham. Neither is formally LARS, but both normally give you some sort of service. Wattisham strictly Mon-Fri 9-5, but they tend to know about their helicopters that go scurrying around the county at low level.

PS - I know the LARS map doesn't give much detail of coverage, but I go on the basis that if I call they wrong one, they'll soon put me right.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Previous attempts to talk to Lakenheath resulted in my not understanding the accent ...

I had in mind calling Wattisham as I'll be passing pretty well directly over their airfield. And you never know, maybe Cambridge will have someone watching a radar screen, they do sometimes during the week And possibly 0013 and listen out to Essex as I scrape the edge of (the 3,500' bit of) their zone on the way back (I don't really like being that low if I don't have to be).

(Normally I fly at weekends and know there's nobody to talk to over East Anglia so don't bother to try. Last trip I turned the radio down, and when I turned it back up I was being called to see if I still existed - whoops. Flying during the week is a novelty only afforded to the unemployed )

[Cusco]

(Normally I fly at weekends and know there's nobody to talk to over East Anglia so don't bother to try. Last trip I turned the radio down, and when I turned it back up I was being called to see if I still existed - whoops. Flying during the week is a novelty only afforded to the unemployed )

Er, which East Anglia is that, Gertie?

Doesn't sound like the same one as I fly in at weekends (and, as it happens , weekdays when many retired folks who have worked all their lives fly).

At weekends I can talk to Lakenheath , Cambridge, Norwich, Anglia Radar, even Essex if I've half a mind.And Southend can be pretty useful in the south of our great region.

Any one of them has a radar screen in front of them and are happy to help.

And I seriously don't believe you can't understand the Cousins.

Or mebbe just don't want to try.

Cusco.

[ShyTorque]

Flying during the week is a novelty only afforded to the unemployed

Except those of us employed in aviation.

Heard many others out and about today asking for a basic service (or a basic information service, or basic traffic information, or whatever else perhaps came to mind once they pressed the transmit switch .... ). Then, on receipt of a reply from ATC some pilots obviously hadn't got their radio volume turned up and didn't hear it. This causes ATC to repeat the call a number of times. Some pilots called again, "treading on" other calls to and from ATC or replies from traffic inside CAS including final approach vectors. Some folk obviously have no idea how much hassle this can cause to others on the frequency.

[FREDAcheck]

I agree with what you say, Cusco, but the patch in Suffolk from Cambridge, over Wattisham to Felixstowe is pretty quiet on the radio at a weekend. Wattisham aren't normally there, it's a bit south for Norwich and a bit N for Southend.

And Gertie, I'm glad I'm not the only one that sometimes has to ask Lakenheath to say again. But they do warn you about big grey things going in and out of their little strip.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

At weekends I can talk to Lakenheath , Cambridge, Norwich, Anglia Radar, even Essex if I've half a mind.And Southend can be pretty useful in the south of our great region.

Lakenheath only sometimes at weekends, no response last time I called. And when I have managed to understand them they've tended to say good-bye when I'm two miles clear of the MATZ and heading away from it. Cambridge rarely has the radar manned at weekends. Norwich, yes if you're anywhere near there, which I'm not often. Anglia Radar, you joke surely? - on my map they only cover bits of the sea (and a strip of coast), or am I missing something? I've not tried talking to Essex, the gossip about them here and elsewhere suggests that they don't have much time to chat to passing spamcans. Southend, yes, I talk to them if I'm going that way, and feel that I don't mind the "turn 30 degrees for identification" and the constant repetition of "high speed traffic crossing ahead of you, right to left, no height information, possibly an airliner".

So, Lakenheath aside, quite a big gap between Norwich and Southend, being the bit I usually fly in.

And Gertie, I'm glad I'm not the only one that sometimes has to ask Lakenheath to say again. But they do warn you about big grey things going in and out of their little strip.

One approach that seems to work (assuming you don't want to fly actually inside the MATZ) is to fly around wearing a Cambridge conspicuity squawk, then the cousins will get on the phone to Cambridge when they want you to do something, and Cambridge will ask you nicely in English. The one time this happened to me I was at 5,000' or something, the request was not to descend for the time being please, and I saw a big grey thing creeping along at hedge height thousands of feet below me.

(My original post in this thread was not intended to complain about not having a radar service, I don't mind that, it was to wonder whether there was a more detailed LARS map somewhere showing ground features.)

[Cusco]

I agree with what you say, Cusco, but the patch in Suffolk from Cambridge, over Wattisham to Felixstowe is pretty quiet on the radio at a weekend. Wattisham aren't normally there, it's a bit south for Norwich and a bit N for Southend.

True: but to say there is no LARS in Suffolk at weekends as Gertie did is errant nonsense. Interestingly I've had Norwich Radar talk to me as far down as Bentwaters.

Who on earth wants to fly overhead Felixtowe anyway?

If one has a radio , one should use it. If one doesn't have a radio, one can't use it. If one has a radio and decides not to use it throughout the flight, that is one's (IMHO daft) choice.

If one has a radio and starts to use it , then stops using it having already spoken to a ground station, one is a tw@t, as I think ShyTorque has already intimated.

Edit as crossed with G-t-W

I've flown from inside the LKH/MLD/HON CMATZ for 16 years and have never failed to raise Lakenheath at weekends. Perhaps I have become accustomed to their voice to paraphrase the great song..........

Seriously though folks, perhaps the CAA should superimpose the Farnborough LARS coverage on the next Southern Half Mil in a dinky pastel hue.........

Cusco (dyed-in-the -wool radio user.)

[FREDAcheck]

Who on earth wants to fly overhead Felixtowe anyway?

Somebody has to.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Seriously though folks, perhaps the CAA should superimpose the Farnborough LARS coverage on the next Southern Half Mil in a dinky pastel hue.........

Why just Farnborough?

[aluminium persuader]

Wattisham are there Mon-Fri 0830 until end of flying or 0130, whichever comes earlier. Getting to be 0130 more often than not these days, except for Fri which tends to be earlier. More weekends too, but hours strictly as required. Not a LARS unit but I've never heard of anyone being refused a service.

Excellent value!

ap