N reg shares
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
N reg shares
Is it legal to form a group with an "N" reg AC
Apologies if this has been asked before but I could't get the search function to work for me.
DO.
Apologies if this has been asked before but I could't get the search function to work for me.
DO.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
N reg shares
Hi,
I looked a joining a non equity group formed around an N reg. Some time ago.
I'm sure at the time I read that there where certain restrictions. I thought each member had to have at least a 5% share in the aircraft.
I'm not sure if your intended group is non equity.
SP
I looked a joining a non equity group formed around an N reg. Some time ago.
I'm sure at the time I read that there where certain restrictions. I thought each member had to have at least a 5% share in the aircraft.
I'm not sure if your intended group is non equity.
SP
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This came up here recently. The only issues I know of are that the DfT will give aerial work permission under ANO article 140 (basically this applies only to the pilot receiving paid training) to people who are owners or part owners in a group no larger than 4 people, with similar provisions for Ltd companies. It's on the DfT website somewhere. But if nobody needs any training, or they can find somebody to do it without being paid, or they can do it outside UK airspace, then this is a non-issue.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is possible to form an N reg group but an N reg cannot be owned by a non US resident.
Therefore the way to have an N Reg group is to form a US based Trust company and have shares in the trust. The US Trust usually based in Delaware being a US resident owns the aircraft is what goes on the registration certificate.
The 5% relates to the minimum share of a G reg group allowed by the CAA.
The DfT needs to give permission for paid training to take place in an N reg and this will be limited by the number of shareholders, IIRC, no more than 4 shareholders. That would need checking out.
There are plenty of outfits offering to form and manage N reg trusts in the backs of the various pilot magazines.
You might also ask an N reg flyer who provides their trust services and whether they are any good and get a idea of the costs.
The whole is a murkey area. Here is a useful link.
Willow Air Flying Club - Southend Airport, Essex UK
Therefore the way to have an N Reg group is to form a US based Trust company and have shares in the trust. The US Trust usually based in Delaware being a US resident owns the aircraft is what goes on the registration certificate.
The 5% relates to the minimum share of a G reg group allowed by the CAA.
The DfT needs to give permission for paid training to take place in an N reg and this will be limited by the number of shareholders, IIRC, no more than 4 shareholders. That would need checking out.
There are plenty of outfits offering to form and manage N reg trusts in the backs of the various pilot magazines.
You might also ask an N reg flyer who provides their trust services and whether they are any good and get a idea of the costs.
The whole is a murkey area. Here is a useful link.
Willow Air Flying Club - Southend Airport, Essex UK
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The whole is a murkey area
I think that Willowair URL is a pretty accurate summary.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It has been a murky area and the DfT have had a busy time dealing with people the working grey areas especially in respect of paid instruction.
I believe there was a prosecution some time ago about N reg training.
I believe there was a prosecution some time ago about N reg training.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't there a minimum % of US shareholding, if the plane is company owned?
Someone ence tried to sell me such a scheme, and the figure was about 75% US. The other 25% was the UK based beneficial owner (what the US calls "trustor").
The above is a popular structure at the higher end of GA because it gives the beneficial owner some control, in theory. Whereas the conventional US trust, where you sell the plane for $1 to the US citizen and then pay him £500/year, means that if he dies you might be stuck with a plane which you cannot sell - for quite a while, anyway.
Someone ence tried to sell me such a scheme, and the figure was about 75% US. The other 25% was the UK based beneficial owner (what the US calls "trustor").
The above is a popular structure at the higher end of GA because it gives the beneficial owner some control, in theory. Whereas the conventional US trust, where you sell the plane for $1 to the US citizen and then pay him £500/year, means that if he dies you might be stuck with a plane which you cannot sell - for quite a while, anyway.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A corporatation needs to be 75% controlled by US entities, unless the aircraft is operated for more than 60% of its flight hours in the US. In which case, a foregin controlled corporation can own the aircraft (i.e. a division of a UK PLC can own a US aircraft for its US operation).
All in FAR 47
All in FAR 47
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No.
Given you are looking to have a UK based N-reg group you have two choices.
1 - Find an American, give him some cash to buy an airplane (which he legally owns and has all of the rights and responsibilities for) and have him let your group use it. - generally a pretty high risk strategy!!
2 - Setup a Trust with one of the companies that does this. They still own the airplane as above, but you (or your group) are defined as the beneficial owners and the Trustees have a fiduciary responsibility (and generally insurance) to you. the Trusts will be very familiar with the documentation for Groups of beneficiaries vs. a single person.
Re - No Capital, some one either has to give the Trustee the airplane or give them the cash to buy the airplane. Fundamentally, the US citizen (i.e. Trust in most cases) must actually own the aircraft.
Given you are looking to have a UK based N-reg group you have two choices.
1 - Find an American, give him some cash to buy an airplane (which he legally owns and has all of the rights and responsibilities for) and have him let your group use it. - generally a pretty high risk strategy!!
2 - Setup a Trust with one of the companies that does this. They still own the airplane as above, but you (or your group) are defined as the beneficial owners and the Trustees have a fiduciary responsibility (and generally insurance) to you. the Trusts will be very familiar with the documentation for Groups of beneficiaries vs. a single person.
Re - No Capital, some one either has to give the Trustee the airplane or give them the cash to buy the airplane. Fundamentally, the US citizen (i.e. Trust in most cases) must actually own the aircraft.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 18nm NE grice 28ft up
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The AC is here, N reg so is owned by a trust. There are at present two principles sharing. The question is can this be expanded legally?
I think the question has been answered that it can.
DO.
I think the question has been answered that it can.
DO.
