Any Crop-Dusters (Past/Present)?...Low Flying-Tips to stay alive?
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Any Crop-Dusters (Past/Present)?...Low Flying-Tips to stay alive?
Tip no.1--Don't low fly........Okay now we've got that out the way.
Why the question?...I know my own training/experience has left me poorly skilled in manoeuvering an aircraft low to the ground. The best time to learn is probably not during a forced landing, precautionary landing, or low level circuit due to marginal weather.
Why agricultural pilots?....Because they know and because in the UK the're probable a dying breed; and with them their skills knowledge. Tornado GR4 pilots may have a view as well. Unfortunately the light aircraft I frequent don't reach 420kts...even straight down.
Specifics?....Turns at low level; height perception; dangerous visual illusions; dealing with low level turbulence; gotchas normal pilots wouldn't have even thought of. Okay if that sounds like a book it may already exist. If so could you point me in its' direction.
Thanks TIM
(Please note I'm not planning on rushing out and practising any of this stuff on my own. And no I don't wish to get an up close view of a Bae Hawk on a low level training exercise. Which brings me to my last question. Anyone know any suitably qualified/experienced instructors in the UK?)
Why the question?...I know my own training/experience has left me poorly skilled in manoeuvering an aircraft low to the ground. The best time to learn is probably not during a forced landing, precautionary landing, or low level circuit due to marginal weather.
Why agricultural pilots?....Because they know and because in the UK the're probable a dying breed; and with them their skills knowledge. Tornado GR4 pilots may have a view as well. Unfortunately the light aircraft I frequent don't reach 420kts...even straight down.
Specifics?....Turns at low level; height perception; dangerous visual illusions; dealing with low level turbulence; gotchas normal pilots wouldn't have even thought of. Okay if that sounds like a book it may already exist. If so could you point me in its' direction.
Thanks TIM
(Please note I'm not planning on rushing out and practising any of this stuff on my own. And no I don't wish to get an up close view of a Bae Hawk on a low level training exercise. Which brings me to my last question. Anyone know any suitably qualified/experienced instructors in the UK?)
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Anyone know any suitably qualified/experienced instructors in the UK?
(No, I'm not taking the piss. And before anyone mentions it, the libyan GA fleet is actually in quite good condition since the end of the embargo--certainly better than in the UK, although I know that's not saying much)
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RansS9,
I've been flying ag and doing low altitude operations such as firefighting for many years now. That includes crop dusting, animal tracking and a host of other duties which required flying close to terrain. Some of my flying has been in flat terrain such as doing corn, wheat, and other row crops...but most of it has been in mountainous terrain. I've done this in light piston singles, medium turbine singles, all the way up through large four engine piston and turbine airplanes.
I'm rather leary of counseling someone over an anonymous web board regarding how to fly their airplane at low level. Extended flight at low level isn't really a skill applicable to making a force landing. For the private pilot, it's more something one might use to scud run or go play. Both can be a dangerous undertaking without proper preparation, training, and experience.
I'm not going to attempt to teach you how to do this over the internet, but I will discuss some common pitfalls and mistakes in the hopes one doesn't repeat them.
For a new ag pilot, one of the most common errors is striking the wheels on the furrows in the field, or dragging them in the crop. This comes from the inability to hold altitude properly, and in ag flying, a precise ground track and a precise altitude is very important (for several reasons, not all of which are applicable here). Part of this is lack of experience in judging height above ground...if you're low, flying is very much a heads-up endevor, and you need to have an intuitive understanding of your altitude...which can be measured in inches, or feet (or centimeters and meters, I suppose). This becomes particularly important when flying near intervening obstacles such as fences, powerlines, etc. You need to know you can clear those obstacles and by how much, as well as changes in the terrain beneath you.
I was spraying in Kansas (USA) when the Dromader was first introduced in the USA. At the time it was the biggest thing out there, with a 600 gallon hopper and a big russian/polish version of the R-1820 motor on it. A gentleman just south of us was working one. He was entering a field which had some tall weeds growing up along fenceline where he entered the field. He was experienced, and he was flying a large, heavy, fully loaded airplane. He dragged his wheels slightly through the tips of the weeds on his entry back into the field.
Unbeknownst to him, a corral was in the weeds, and he caught the top of a cedar post fence with one wheel. One would think the fencepost would have been pulled right out of the ground or at least broken off, but it wasn't. It stopped him so quickly that the airplane hardly skidded. It flipped over, broke the spar over the cockpit, cracked the hopper, and he drowned in the chemical. It doesn't take much to bring your flight to a crashing halt sooner than you might like.
obviously getting too low is bad. But how do you know when you're too low? You can fly over level ground fairly easily enough, but what about crossing obstacles such as fences, vehicles, and powerlines? Wires are a big hazard that bring down a number of airplanes ever year, and result in a number of fatalities. These can slice up your airplane like a knife through butter, or simply tear it apart. I've seen airplanes shredded, and thick parts such as the propeller cut as cleanly as though they'd been pushed through a band saw. Canopies shattered, wingtips removed, wings and horizontal stabs and vertical stabs removed, spray booms stripped off, and airplanes destroyed. Powerlines, guy wires on towers, support lines, etc...often can be nearly invisible. Very hard to see. Often there are more than you think, and they may come off at unusual angles or places where you don't expect them.
One rule of thumb is always looking for the highest obstacle or point, and clearing that. In the case of a powerline, one shouldn't attempt to cross any lower than the top of the pole. Yes, the wires sag in between, but there may be wires you don't see, and gauging a suspended obstacle for clearance is not easy. Additionally, some wires use smaller, nearly invisible supports on top of the poles for additional wires you may not see, and wires do extend from poles as supports when they change direction or experience a change in tension. In ag work, illegal powertaps without any poles to warn the wire is there can be especially dangerous.
One requirement in ag is to occasionally work underneath powerlines. This is something to not be taken lightly, and increases the hazards from a number of angles. You should consider any straight line you see on the ground as having a fence or a powerline with it. This means if you're making a forced landing, try not to do so where you'll be crossing straight lines such as roads, divisions between fields, etc...these nearly always have a fence or a powerline, or both, that you won't always see until it's too late. Assume any straight line has obstacles.
We used to do a lot of operating from roads. Farm roads, country roads, highways. Light general aviation airplanes, ag aircraft, et. Again, your wings stick out there farther than you think. If you've ever wandered from the centerline during a takeoff or landing, you can perhaps imagine what the increased consequences might be of signage alongside the road, powerlines crossing overhead, ditches alongside the road, fences, and other vehicles in your path. Where you have room to deviate around on a runway, you don't on a road. This applies to landing on one, or taking off. If a road looks attractive during a forced landing, it might be a good choice, but it may also be a trap.
Another common problem of low altitude flight is turning. It seems intuitive enough; bank and turn. However, part of banking is raising one wing and lowering the other. In low level flight however, you have to be sure to raise one wing and not lower the other. This involves a small climb in the turn, increasing with the angle of bank, to prevent the wingtip from striking the ground. Forgetting wingtips is a big thing in low altitude flight. The same comes in making turns or crosswind corrections close to the ground. The wings MUST stay parallel to the ground and the corrections made with the rudder, if you're within a wingspan of the ground. Dipping a wing just slightly, when you're concentrating on avoiding the ground and obstacles, with your attention diverted, can quickly roll you up in a ball.
Perspective during turns at low altitude is different than your perspective at higher altitudes. You may have done your ground reference maneuvers as a student at 500 to 800', but this is high altitude compared to flying close to the ground. Among other things, you have the ground rushing by in your perepherial vision. It's easy to let the sensation of the ground as a reference influence the way you make your turn, and you may find yourself pulling turns tighter because of various illusions or perceptions that occur down low. You may find yourself concentrating on the objects on the ground and losing altitude; you can lose a hundred feet in normal maneuvering and not thing twice about it, but fifteen feet during low altitude flying can kill you.
The US Border Patrol had a series of crashes in Husky's when they first started using the airplane. Most of them were traced to pilots flyin the airpalne into the ground while turning about a point. It's one thing to do this at 800', but it's another to do this at 30'. They were making these turns while chasing people on the ground or tracking people, and with a focus on the job at hand, altitude awareness went out the window. At one point the Border Patrol decided the airplanes must be unsafe...but it wasn't the airplane. It was the pilots.
You've already addressed some of the salient points of flying low; you know it's potentially dangerous, and you know you shouldn't be doing it. I'll add to that by stressing the same things you already mentioned. Low altitude operations can be conducted safely if you have the experience and the training and are prepared to do it. If not, it can be deadly. There's nothing down low that isn't at altitude (save for obstacles, windshear, cetain illusions, ground effect, etc)...but it's the pilot that's the most dangerous component in the airplane. As always.
A technique that many use when down low is to roll in a little "up" trim. That is, I'm always holding a little forward pressure on the stick. In a moment of inattention, the airplane will climb. Zero or neutral trim...no. Positive, or up trim, yes. I tend to fly the same way for takeoff and landing, too.
A very important point to consider is that you need to be prepared to put the airplane down at any time. Right here, right now. No holding off while seeking best glide speed, no searching for an appropriate road or field. When the engine fails, if you've failed to keep it in the forefront of your mind all the tiem, you're committed to whatever is in front of you. Good or bad. If you do keep it in the forefront of your mind, you'll always keep a viable option in front of you, and always plan an "out" or an escape.
Flying low places you at risk for birds, powerlines, trees, etc. A bird strike at a higher altitude is usually a distraction. It's a distraction down low, too, but you can't afford distractions, or to allow your prioritizing of flying the airplane to be affected by the distractions that may occur.
When flying low, you're going to need to look somewhere aside from straight ahead. When you do, your natural tendency is to compensate with your hands and feet, but looking one way, especially with the ground rushing by, can cause you turn turn the other, or vary your altitude (climbing usually is a lot safer than descending...what if you descend?). The tendency to do this is compounded even more in a turn.
Avoid obstacles. Judging your distance from a powerline, fence, or tree when you're flying by at 120 knots or higher can be difficult. It's very easy to drift laterally and end up catching a wingtip. Don't do that. Stay away from obstacles.
I'd caution you again and again to stay away from low level flying without the proper training, experience and preparation. I've discussed a few things to avoid. Some things are not to be avoided, and that included proper training from a competent and experienced instructor. Preparation for me means putting on a quality, approved helmet and flying gear. I wear nomex when I'm at low altitude, because having been in the position to make forced landings from low altitude before, I know anything is possible. I carry seat belt cutters, and a large knife to cut and break my way out of the airplane if the canopy won't release. I wear nomex and leather gloves, full length leather boots, and eye protection. These aren't things I would normally wear if flying a 172 from A to B, but things which have proven very beneficial, even lifesaving.
Low altitude planning includes becoming familiar with the place where you'll be flying. This often includes a visit to the area you'll be flying before hand, a close survey for obstacles, entry points, escape points, etc. It also occurs when you approach the area you'll be flying; circling the area at a safe altitude, looking for obstacles and obstructions, noting the lay of land, unusual wind currents, etc. This can be especially critical in mountainous terrain where there may be only one way in, and one way out.
Low altitude planning includes flying the right equipment for what it is that you're trying to do. Low altitude and low light calls for different equipment (instrumentation, lighting, etc) than strictly day flights, and so forth. The right kind of airplane with adequate power is also important. Arriving at an obstacle and being unable to outclimb it can hurt or kill you. You can do it safely in a J-3 cub if you're prepared to manage the airplane's energy adequately...but you can also get yourself into a real pickle. (That pickle can kill you).
Preparation includes having enough rest. It includes knowing where the sun will be and what you will and won't be able to see. It includes keeping a clean windshield. It includes becoming blindfold familiar with your cockpit; you don't always have the option of looking around for a control or knob when you're down low, and especially if you end up in a crash. You can't reach for the prop knob and grab the mixture; you've got to be right every time, and this means intimate knowledge of your cockpit...if you can be blindfolded and reach and touch any instrument or control on command without feeling for it, then you're getting there.
Experience...there's never any substitute for experience, but there's also only one way to get it...by experiencing it. This is best done under close supervision, following close, discriminating training. And of course, with proper preparation.
There's a certain enjoyment and pleasure to be had flying low, and to be honest, some of my favorite teenage times were chasing around the countryside in a J-3 cub with the doors open smelling fresh cut alfalfa and feeling the wind. I was also employed as an ag pilot then, and had a solid background in low level flight. If one seeks that enjoyment without the proper preparation, training, and experience, one may not have the opportunity to enjoy it for long. Many years ago the National Aerial Applicator's Association published an article detailing the statistical lifespan of an ag pilot At the time the average was seven years. That accounts for pilots who lasted seven years before they got killed on the job, those who lasted not quite their first spray season, and those who went their entire life, trouble free...few ag pilots have gone long without a mishap. I don't know what the statistics are today, but there are a lot of very experienced aviators running around out there who have had one or more mishaps due to low level flight. Don't join them. I lost a friend this year to this very thing. There are many more in times past. I'd just as soon never see another added to the list.
Fly safe.
--I believe Chuck, who posts here regularly, has a fairly lengthy low level background, as well.
I've been flying ag and doing low altitude operations such as firefighting for many years now. That includes crop dusting, animal tracking and a host of other duties which required flying close to terrain. Some of my flying has been in flat terrain such as doing corn, wheat, and other row crops...but most of it has been in mountainous terrain. I've done this in light piston singles, medium turbine singles, all the way up through large four engine piston and turbine airplanes.
I'm rather leary of counseling someone over an anonymous web board regarding how to fly their airplane at low level. Extended flight at low level isn't really a skill applicable to making a force landing. For the private pilot, it's more something one might use to scud run or go play. Both can be a dangerous undertaking without proper preparation, training, and experience.
I'm not going to attempt to teach you how to do this over the internet, but I will discuss some common pitfalls and mistakes in the hopes one doesn't repeat them.
For a new ag pilot, one of the most common errors is striking the wheels on the furrows in the field, or dragging them in the crop. This comes from the inability to hold altitude properly, and in ag flying, a precise ground track and a precise altitude is very important (for several reasons, not all of which are applicable here). Part of this is lack of experience in judging height above ground...if you're low, flying is very much a heads-up endevor, and you need to have an intuitive understanding of your altitude...which can be measured in inches, or feet (or centimeters and meters, I suppose). This becomes particularly important when flying near intervening obstacles such as fences, powerlines, etc. You need to know you can clear those obstacles and by how much, as well as changes in the terrain beneath you.
I was spraying in Kansas (USA) when the Dromader was first introduced in the USA. At the time it was the biggest thing out there, with a 600 gallon hopper and a big russian/polish version of the R-1820 motor on it. A gentleman just south of us was working one. He was entering a field which had some tall weeds growing up along fenceline where he entered the field. He was experienced, and he was flying a large, heavy, fully loaded airplane. He dragged his wheels slightly through the tips of the weeds on his entry back into the field.
Unbeknownst to him, a corral was in the weeds, and he caught the top of a cedar post fence with one wheel. One would think the fencepost would have been pulled right out of the ground or at least broken off, but it wasn't. It stopped him so quickly that the airplane hardly skidded. It flipped over, broke the spar over the cockpit, cracked the hopper, and he drowned in the chemical. It doesn't take much to bring your flight to a crashing halt sooner than you might like.
obviously getting too low is bad. But how do you know when you're too low? You can fly over level ground fairly easily enough, but what about crossing obstacles such as fences, vehicles, and powerlines? Wires are a big hazard that bring down a number of airplanes ever year, and result in a number of fatalities. These can slice up your airplane like a knife through butter, or simply tear it apart. I've seen airplanes shredded, and thick parts such as the propeller cut as cleanly as though they'd been pushed through a band saw. Canopies shattered, wingtips removed, wings and horizontal stabs and vertical stabs removed, spray booms stripped off, and airplanes destroyed. Powerlines, guy wires on towers, support lines, etc...often can be nearly invisible. Very hard to see. Often there are more than you think, and they may come off at unusual angles or places where you don't expect them.
One rule of thumb is always looking for the highest obstacle or point, and clearing that. In the case of a powerline, one shouldn't attempt to cross any lower than the top of the pole. Yes, the wires sag in between, but there may be wires you don't see, and gauging a suspended obstacle for clearance is not easy. Additionally, some wires use smaller, nearly invisible supports on top of the poles for additional wires you may not see, and wires do extend from poles as supports when they change direction or experience a change in tension. In ag work, illegal powertaps without any poles to warn the wire is there can be especially dangerous.
One requirement in ag is to occasionally work underneath powerlines. This is something to not be taken lightly, and increases the hazards from a number of angles. You should consider any straight line you see on the ground as having a fence or a powerline with it. This means if you're making a forced landing, try not to do so where you'll be crossing straight lines such as roads, divisions between fields, etc...these nearly always have a fence or a powerline, or both, that you won't always see until it's too late. Assume any straight line has obstacles.
We used to do a lot of operating from roads. Farm roads, country roads, highways. Light general aviation airplanes, ag aircraft, et. Again, your wings stick out there farther than you think. If you've ever wandered from the centerline during a takeoff or landing, you can perhaps imagine what the increased consequences might be of signage alongside the road, powerlines crossing overhead, ditches alongside the road, fences, and other vehicles in your path. Where you have room to deviate around on a runway, you don't on a road. This applies to landing on one, or taking off. If a road looks attractive during a forced landing, it might be a good choice, but it may also be a trap.
Another common problem of low altitude flight is turning. It seems intuitive enough; bank and turn. However, part of banking is raising one wing and lowering the other. In low level flight however, you have to be sure to raise one wing and not lower the other. This involves a small climb in the turn, increasing with the angle of bank, to prevent the wingtip from striking the ground. Forgetting wingtips is a big thing in low altitude flight. The same comes in making turns or crosswind corrections close to the ground. The wings MUST stay parallel to the ground and the corrections made with the rudder, if you're within a wingspan of the ground. Dipping a wing just slightly, when you're concentrating on avoiding the ground and obstacles, with your attention diverted, can quickly roll you up in a ball.
Perspective during turns at low altitude is different than your perspective at higher altitudes. You may have done your ground reference maneuvers as a student at 500 to 800', but this is high altitude compared to flying close to the ground. Among other things, you have the ground rushing by in your perepherial vision. It's easy to let the sensation of the ground as a reference influence the way you make your turn, and you may find yourself pulling turns tighter because of various illusions or perceptions that occur down low. You may find yourself concentrating on the objects on the ground and losing altitude; you can lose a hundred feet in normal maneuvering and not thing twice about it, but fifteen feet during low altitude flying can kill you.
The US Border Patrol had a series of crashes in Husky's when they first started using the airplane. Most of them were traced to pilots flyin the airpalne into the ground while turning about a point. It's one thing to do this at 800', but it's another to do this at 30'. They were making these turns while chasing people on the ground or tracking people, and with a focus on the job at hand, altitude awareness went out the window. At one point the Border Patrol decided the airplanes must be unsafe...but it wasn't the airplane. It was the pilots.
You've already addressed some of the salient points of flying low; you know it's potentially dangerous, and you know you shouldn't be doing it. I'll add to that by stressing the same things you already mentioned. Low altitude operations can be conducted safely if you have the experience and the training and are prepared to do it. If not, it can be deadly. There's nothing down low that isn't at altitude (save for obstacles, windshear, cetain illusions, ground effect, etc)...but it's the pilot that's the most dangerous component in the airplane. As always.
A technique that many use when down low is to roll in a little "up" trim. That is, I'm always holding a little forward pressure on the stick. In a moment of inattention, the airplane will climb. Zero or neutral trim...no. Positive, or up trim, yes. I tend to fly the same way for takeoff and landing, too.
A very important point to consider is that you need to be prepared to put the airplane down at any time. Right here, right now. No holding off while seeking best glide speed, no searching for an appropriate road or field. When the engine fails, if you've failed to keep it in the forefront of your mind all the tiem, you're committed to whatever is in front of you. Good or bad. If you do keep it in the forefront of your mind, you'll always keep a viable option in front of you, and always plan an "out" or an escape.
Flying low places you at risk for birds, powerlines, trees, etc. A bird strike at a higher altitude is usually a distraction. It's a distraction down low, too, but you can't afford distractions, or to allow your prioritizing of flying the airplane to be affected by the distractions that may occur.
When flying low, you're going to need to look somewhere aside from straight ahead. When you do, your natural tendency is to compensate with your hands and feet, but looking one way, especially with the ground rushing by, can cause you turn turn the other, or vary your altitude (climbing usually is a lot safer than descending...what if you descend?). The tendency to do this is compounded even more in a turn.
Avoid obstacles. Judging your distance from a powerline, fence, or tree when you're flying by at 120 knots or higher can be difficult. It's very easy to drift laterally and end up catching a wingtip. Don't do that. Stay away from obstacles.
I'd caution you again and again to stay away from low level flying without the proper training, experience and preparation. I've discussed a few things to avoid. Some things are not to be avoided, and that included proper training from a competent and experienced instructor. Preparation for me means putting on a quality, approved helmet and flying gear. I wear nomex when I'm at low altitude, because having been in the position to make forced landings from low altitude before, I know anything is possible. I carry seat belt cutters, and a large knife to cut and break my way out of the airplane if the canopy won't release. I wear nomex and leather gloves, full length leather boots, and eye protection. These aren't things I would normally wear if flying a 172 from A to B, but things which have proven very beneficial, even lifesaving.
Low altitude planning includes becoming familiar with the place where you'll be flying. This often includes a visit to the area you'll be flying before hand, a close survey for obstacles, entry points, escape points, etc. It also occurs when you approach the area you'll be flying; circling the area at a safe altitude, looking for obstacles and obstructions, noting the lay of land, unusual wind currents, etc. This can be especially critical in mountainous terrain where there may be only one way in, and one way out.
Low altitude planning includes flying the right equipment for what it is that you're trying to do. Low altitude and low light calls for different equipment (instrumentation, lighting, etc) than strictly day flights, and so forth. The right kind of airplane with adequate power is also important. Arriving at an obstacle and being unable to outclimb it can hurt or kill you. You can do it safely in a J-3 cub if you're prepared to manage the airplane's energy adequately...but you can also get yourself into a real pickle. (That pickle can kill you).
Preparation includes having enough rest. It includes knowing where the sun will be and what you will and won't be able to see. It includes keeping a clean windshield. It includes becoming blindfold familiar with your cockpit; you don't always have the option of looking around for a control or knob when you're down low, and especially if you end up in a crash. You can't reach for the prop knob and grab the mixture; you've got to be right every time, and this means intimate knowledge of your cockpit...if you can be blindfolded and reach and touch any instrument or control on command without feeling for it, then you're getting there.
Experience...there's never any substitute for experience, but there's also only one way to get it...by experiencing it. This is best done under close supervision, following close, discriminating training. And of course, with proper preparation.
There's a certain enjoyment and pleasure to be had flying low, and to be honest, some of my favorite teenage times were chasing around the countryside in a J-3 cub with the doors open smelling fresh cut alfalfa and feeling the wind. I was also employed as an ag pilot then, and had a solid background in low level flight. If one seeks that enjoyment without the proper preparation, training, and experience, one may not have the opportunity to enjoy it for long. Many years ago the National Aerial Applicator's Association published an article detailing the statistical lifespan of an ag pilot At the time the average was seven years. That accounts for pilots who lasted seven years before they got killed on the job, those who lasted not quite their first spray season, and those who went their entire life, trouble free...few ag pilots have gone long without a mishap. I don't know what the statistics are today, but there are a lot of very experienced aviators running around out there who have had one or more mishaps due to low level flight. Don't join them. I lost a friend this year to this very thing. There are many more in times past. I'd just as soon never see another added to the list.
Fly safe.
--I believe Chuck, who posts here regularly, has a fairly lengthy low level background, as well.
Last edited by SNS3Guppy; 30th Nov 2008 at 09:47.
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We used to have fertiliser and some chemicals applied by air to our farm in the UK in the early 80's.
The benefit is that there is no soil compaction or crop damage caused through tractor wheelings.
The company we used had a Pawnee that could lift around 500 kgs if I remember correctly.
We also used helicopters at times.
The pilot of the Pawnee was a middle aged South African,Noel Kimvik, and I got to know him quite well,when we were spreading fertiliser I had to stand in the field to mark for him,so he was flying over my head,with very little clearance,maybe 20 feet?
I also marked a couple of times for a fungicide,a bit stupid looking back!
He certailny pulled the aircraft round in low steep turn but thinking back he did exactly as Guppy said,a climbing turn.
When I asked about fatalities he said ,
"The pilots are either young or old,the others are dead"
I would imagine an ex fighter pilot civil instructor would know how to teach you,I was taught to fly by one and a couple times we would need to get a quick circuit in before the parachutists dropped,he would take control and do a really,really tight low circuit,nothing like a normal one.
Lister
The benefit is that there is no soil compaction or crop damage caused through tractor wheelings.
The company we used had a Pawnee that could lift around 500 kgs if I remember correctly.
We also used helicopters at times.
The pilot of the Pawnee was a middle aged South African,Noel Kimvik, and I got to know him quite well,when we were spreading fertiliser I had to stand in the field to mark for him,so he was flying over my head,with very little clearance,maybe 20 feet?
I also marked a couple of times for a fungicide,a bit stupid looking back!
He certailny pulled the aircraft round in low steep turn but thinking back he did exactly as Guppy said,a climbing turn.
When I asked about fatalities he said ,
"The pilots are either young or old,the others are dead"
I would imagine an ex fighter pilot civil instructor would know how to teach you,I was taught to fly by one and a couple times we would need to get a quick circuit in before the parachutists dropped,he would take control and do a really,really tight low circuit,nothing like a normal one.
Lister
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Certainly agree with Guppy.
Just like to add my 2 cents worth, as I did 10 years of it but a long time ago.
In civil aviation, the only legal low flying will be aerial work.
One of the biggest dangers of low flying are power and telephone cables. Most cable strikes are on occasions when the pilot was "aware they were there".
Before embarking on any low flying cable deflectors and cutters need to be fitted to your aircraft. One should endeavour to enter a field with wings level and also pull up and out of a field wings level. When clear begin the turn. If a cable is struck (normally the one that is forgotten about) the pilot has a chance of survival if the aircraft is latterly level, as the propeller, wire cutters and deflector hopefully will get you out of trouble. However if the wire is caught by the wing tip alone, during a turning pull up, you are dead, period. The wire needs to be cut or deflected. Aircraft wings are not known for their wire cutting properties.
Target fixation is another one to catch the unwary.
Just like to add my 2 cents worth, as I did 10 years of it but a long time ago.
In civil aviation, the only legal low flying will be aerial work.
One of the biggest dangers of low flying are power and telephone cables. Most cable strikes are on occasions when the pilot was "aware they were there".
Before embarking on any low flying cable deflectors and cutters need to be fitted to your aircraft. One should endeavour to enter a field with wings level and also pull up and out of a field wings level. When clear begin the turn. If a cable is struck (normally the one that is forgotten about) the pilot has a chance of survival if the aircraft is latterly level, as the propeller, wire cutters and deflector hopefully will get you out of trouble. However if the wire is caught by the wing tip alone, during a turning pull up, you are dead, period. The wire needs to be cut or deflected. Aircraft wings are not known for their wire cutting properties.
Target fixation is another one to catch the unwary.
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Many thanks for all the replies, and especially to SN3Guppy.
Pure stick and rudder challenges (in peacetime ....long may it last); soaring, aerobatics and low level agricultural/surveillance/firefighting.
It strikes me that the arenas that most exploit the "True Freedom of Flight" are the ones that also make the greatest demands on pilot discipline.
SN3Guppy; How about a book? (with all that free time you have...yeah right!) I was thinking a sequel to Stick and Rudder by Langewiesche
"STICK AND RUDDER...in the weeds" by SN3Guppy and Friends.
TIM
Pure stick and rudder challenges (in peacetime ....long may it last); soaring, aerobatics and low level agricultural/surveillance/firefighting.
It strikes me that the arenas that most exploit the "True Freedom of Flight" are the ones that also make the greatest demands on pilot discipline.
SN3Guppy; How about a book? (with all that free time you have...yeah right!) I was thinking a sequel to Stick and Rudder by Langewiesche
"STICK AND RUDDER...in the weeds" by SN3Guppy and Friends.
TIM
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Sounds rather like ridge running in a glider to me. Maybe you should try visiting a gliding club which has a ridge? There's several I can think of where I've experienced similar conditions....and you can fly legally below 500'. That would give you some useful pracrice in flying by attitude instead of instruments, dealing with turbulence, flying close to objects on the ground, handling multiple conflicts when you have other gliders on the ridge and developing a keen level of spatial awareness.
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Guppy book
Tim,I would second that
There are some very experienced pilots on this forum,and their input on here needs to be saved.
Maybe an "easy" way of doing it would be to sort their replies on the various threads.
Put them together in some order of subject and maybe make available on-line.
With possibly a donation to a suitable charity for each download?
Or would an independent book be better and easier to manage?
Lister
There are some very experienced pilots on this forum,and their input on here needs to be saved.
Maybe an "easy" way of doing it would be to sort their replies on the various threads.
Put them together in some order of subject and maybe make available on-line.
With possibly a donation to a suitable charity for each download?
Or would an independent book be better and easier to manage?
Lister
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Rans,
With this post and your one about spinning on the instructors forum I would strongly suggest you look at doing an Advanced PPL course such as that run by UH at Kemble, there other schools around that do some sort of similar course but I do not know who, where or what their standards are.
With this post and your one about spinning on the instructors forum I would strongly suggest you look at doing an Advanced PPL course such as that run by UH at Kemble, there other schools around that do some sort of similar course but I do not know who, where or what their standards are.
Thread Starter
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I found that having the privilege of flying with a Mr.Cassidy at White Waltham gave me a good insight into upset (that's aircraft not people) and a basic foundation from which to continue to learn.
Thanks TIM.
Thanks TIM.
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--I believe Chuck, who posts here regularly, has a fairly lengthy low level background, as well.
Yes, I did a fair amount of it during my career, seven years crop dusting both fixed and rotary wing , fifteen years captain on heavy water bombers and one season low level survey flying an Anson mk.5...that otta date me.
SNS3Guppy has pretty well laid out what it involves.
So my only advice is " DON'T " attempt low level flying without two things.
(1) Proper training.
(2) A reason to do so and thrills are not a good reason.
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Six Feet Over
Hi Rans / Tim,
You might like to locate a copy of SIX FEET OVER – Pleasures and Perils of Aerial Crop Spraying by Peter Charles. This may cover some of the spraying which has been reported above by Lister.
If you have problems finding one you can borrow my copy.
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
You might like to locate a copy of SIX FEET OVER – Pleasures and Perils of Aerial Crop Spraying by Peter Charles. This may cover some of the spraying which has been reported above by Lister.
If you have problems finding one you can borrow my copy.
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
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Also have a look at Level the Odds by Bob Cleland.
My father was a topdressing pilot in NZ for 8 years or so, he flew a J3 Cub and later a Fletcher FU 24. He quit flying (after a crash) and starting farming just before I was born though so I never got to see him in action.
It used to be a HUGE industry here, and they are still busy.
My father was a topdressing pilot in NZ for 8 years or so, he flew a J3 Cub and later a Fletcher FU 24. He quit flying (after a crash) and starting farming just before I was born though so I never got to see him in action.
It used to be a HUGE industry here, and they are still busy.
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(2) A reason to do so and thrills are not a good reason
I have never done any crop dusting but the thrills of low flying are a real lure to some pilots.
Air racing especially Red Bull comes to mind
I came to flying from car racing many moons ago so the attraction to speed is ever present and I am sure the same goes for many pilots.
I have done some low flying but always over vast unpopulated areas or the sea and there is nothing like it for the shear thrill and sense of speed and the different persective of the terrain you fly over.
Many pilots seem to love a low pass down the runway but pilots are descouraged from low flying not only because of the dangers but because of the nuisance to people and animals who live below your path.
For those who love low flying but dont want the book thrown at them by the authorities try cloud flying.
You get the same sense of speed over flat and solid overcasts or for mountain flying playing around towering cumulus can be a thrill.
I can remember a very large piece of cumulus which had a tunnel carved right through the cloud. The tunnel was was perfect and could have ben carved out of rock. I flew through that tunnel which must have been 500 metres long with a ceiling ,a deck and sidewalls surrounding the aircraft. The experience was unreal.
But at least clouds are not hard (ok some are
and you have a nice piece of air below you while you practice your steep turns, pull ups, stall turns etc I would also encourage a course rather than on low flying on mountain flying. Apart from being a life experience especially over the Alps it will give you a better understanding of air currents as well as low flying awareness.
pace
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I seem to remember a couple of years ago an article in one of the flying magazines on low flying training which as offered by a flight training organisation in Perth (Australia). I think they used a Maule.
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Low Flying Tips
I have never been a crop sprayer but am ex RAF where I was taught to fly low to survive. It was always drilled into us that the kill probabability of flying into the ground (100%!) was always higher than being shot down by a SAM or Air-to-Air missile......
The tips already given though hold good, "up" trim, lookout and knowing the performance limits of the ac and in intimate knowledge of the cockpit are essential. Practice on clouds first and then work down gradually.....
If possible, get some dual time with an experienced pilot first and, get the right PPE, a good harness, helmet, flying suit and gloves. Finally, make sure there are no loose articles in the cockpit - you don't need a control restriction or a distraction.
Just my two cents worth but remember, I never said I have had first hand experience of ever spraying crops, apart from when having a slash on exercise!
MB
The tips already given though hold good, "up" trim, lookout and knowing the performance limits of the ac and in intimate knowledge of the cockpit are essential. Practice on clouds first and then work down gradually.....
If possible, get some dual time with an experienced pilot first and, get the right PPE, a good harness, helmet, flying suit and gloves. Finally, make sure there are no loose articles in the cockpit - you don't need a control restriction or a distraction.
Just my two cents worth but remember, I never said I have had first hand experience of ever spraying crops, apart from when having a slash on exercise!
MB
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I am very well aware that the thrill of flying low is as irresistible as the thrill a teenager feels when humping.
So for safety's sake if you do go down into a field to low fly remember to pull out.
So for safety's sake if you do go down into a field to low fly remember to pull out.
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Chuck
Use the clouds its much safer and avoids a report to the CAA for low flying or reserve it for when you can get to an unpopulated expanse of terrain where no one knows or cares.
When I had got my PPL over 20 years ago I had come into flying from Car racing. Thought I knew it all and ended up wrecking the club aircraft in a field so do beware
Pace
Use the clouds its much safer and avoids a report to the CAA for low flying
or reserve it for when you can get to an unpopulated expanse of terrain where no one knows or cares.When I had got my PPL over 20 years ago I had come into flying from Car racing. Thought I knew it all and ended up wrecking the club aircraft in a field so do beware
Pace
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Judgeing height.....
MILITARY LOW FLYING TITBIT......
Many moons ago my Jet Provost QFI, who was by then a "mature" Flight Lieutenant with a great sense of self-preservation, taught me to maintain 250' MSD (min seperation distance) by telling his students "cows have legs but sheep don't!"
That is to say if you could see the legs on a sheep you were too low and if you couldn't see legs on a cow as you flew past you were too high!
I don't know if this is a universal part of the QFI "patter" but it worked for me.......
MB
Many moons ago my Jet Provost QFI, who was by then a "mature" Flight Lieutenant with a great sense of self-preservation
, taught me to maintain 250' MSD (min seperation distance) by telling his students "cows have legs but sheep don't!"That is to say if you could see the legs on a sheep you were too low and if you couldn't see legs on a cow as you flew past you were too high!
I don't know if this is a universal part of the QFI "patter" but it worked for me.......
MB