Earthquake on landing
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Earthquake on landing
Not sure if this is the right place to post this question but have tried googling for info and nothing come up so hoping people here might be able to help/ On landing in Volos on our recent holiday, on coming into land we had one of our worst landings (we fly about 6-8 times a year) ever. We were on a Monarch airbus and were really pitching/rolling quite heavily (date of flight 6 June - arrival time 15:30 - landed in Volos for refuelling before onward to final destination of Skiathos). It felt like a landing in very strong cross winds although when we landed there was no wind at all and it was very still. It was really quite nerve racking as the wings were moving up and down well off the horizontal and were were pitching badly. Anyway, to cut a long story short, on finally taking off and then arriving in Skiathos we were advised there had been a 4.5 earthquake with its epicentre quite close to the Volos area at pretty much the exact time were were landing. Now, it might be a complete coincidence but it has made me wonder if the two were connected? Any thoughts?
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Let me get this straight, you think a bumpy approach is somehow down to an earthquake on the ground ? Or was all this bumping and shaking occurring after all the tires were firmly the tarmac ? In the case of the latter, you may well be onto something... in the case of the former, I'm not quite sure I follow your reasoning as to how an earthquake can affect an aircraft in flight.
Given the destination of your flight (Greece in the summer), more likely to be strong thermals from the ground caused by the heat.
As for some sort of minor flexing in the wings, watch this video and rest assured wings can put up with a lot more than they'll ever see in their lifetime...
Given the destination of your flight (Greece in the summer), more likely to be strong thermals from the ground caused by the heat.
As for some sort of minor flexing in the wings, watch this video and rest assured wings can put up with a lot more than they'll ever see in their lifetime...
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Not sure what approach Volos has but a lot of the Greek airports, especially those with terrain around May have offset (ie 30 degrees offset) or visual approaches which could account for the rolling when coupled with thermal or orographic turbulence.
Volos/Nea Anchialos can also have some dirty winds off the hills. The runway is long and smooth there, with the exit to the civil apron at the end if landing from the sea - no need for heavy braking.
To be honest, a 4.5 is not really that bad - I've witnessed a lot worse. However, I seriously doubt that the aircraft was "pitching and rolling" on the runway.
If arriving from SKP (Skopelos) they route you to the AGH VOR which is on the field or you go for a straight in ILS - if you get a straight in, you are invariably always initially high on the approach profile due to the sector controllers not giving you a lower altitude initially. Volos must have some of the worst ATC in Europe.
I'd go with the thermals theory with a bit of dirty wind on the approach.
To be honest, a 4.5 is not really that bad - I've witnessed a lot worse. However, I seriously doubt that the aircraft was "pitching and rolling" on the runway.
If arriving from SKP (Skopelos) they route you to the AGH VOR which is on the field or you go for a straight in ILS - if you get a straight in, you are invariably always initially high on the approach profile due to the sector controllers not giving you a lower altitude initially. Volos must have some of the worst ATC in Europe.
I'd go with the thermals theory with a bit of dirty wind on the approach.
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The turbulence was on approach - once on the ground no issues. I don't actually think the earthquake does affect the approach (I have a geography degree so know that it shouldn't) - just wondered what others opinions were. The problem was in flight - just about a 30-60 seconds before landing. As you've said, it was probably due to the winds off the surrounding hills. I have to say, it did make us a all a little anxious given the shortness of the runway at Skiathos and we were wondering the the pilot appeared to be landing on the very long (shared military facility) runway that is Volos how he'd handle the Skiathos landing but that was perfect - very smooth landing.
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no pitching on landing - it was in air the problem was - I'm not a major frequent flyer but have perhaps flown 100+ times over the last 20 years and when the general weather has been a lot worse and this was without doubt, and by some margin, the most an aircraft has "rolled" - might not be the best word but that is how it felt, when were were about 30-60 seconds from landing.
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Apologies for slight excursion off-topic, but I'm curious. Normal practise would be for a tech (fuel) stop to take place on the way back from Skiathos, not on the way there.
Was there some issue with Skiathos fuel, or possibly potable water that caused the tech stop on the way over?
Was there some issue with Skiathos fuel, or possibly potable water that caused the tech stop on the way over?
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Yes, we are regular flyers to Volos (Skiathos). Sometimes they do the refuel enroute. My understanding is that its due to there only being enough space on the apron for two planes to be there at any one time and as a Friday is the busiest day at Skiathos some flights have to essentially "wait" at Volos so do their refuelling there. |with the current expansion of the apron at Skiathos I think this may alleviate this as I understand that this will allow a larger number of planes to be present at Skiathos at any one time.
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May I point out that Volos ATC is provided by the military. Way back they had a C-130 crash and among the causes were ATC allowing the pilots to decent early. Maybe the memory of the crash remains to date with the SOP of Volos controllers.
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Not sure if the:
was on the approach or on the landing rollout?
If the former, then winds are the likely, if the latter, the result of the winds requiring the pilots to straighten it up, can cause the machne to 'rock and roll' a little.
Of course, since it is possible that your landing coincided with the quake, it may well have been that. The timing would be very close - but always possible.
Not sure if the:
We were on a Monarch airbus and were really pitching/rolling quite heavily ...
If the former, then winds are the likely, if the latter, the result of the winds requiring the pilots to straighten it up, can cause the machne to 'rock and roll' a little.
Of course, since it is possible that your landing coincided with the quake, it may well have been that. The timing would be very close - but always possible.
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First of all it wasn't me! I checked before replying.
Many of these flights operate with split loads, with some customers disembarking in JSI (Skiathos) and some in VOL (Nea Anchialos.) Which way around depends on timing factors and sometimes the aircraft that is utilized. The route is served by both 320/1 and B757 aircraft. The latters performance enables it to operate from the short runway at Skiathos directly back to the UK with less of a penalty restriction. However apron capacity at Skiathos will often put a practical restriction on which way around the flight is programmed.
Skiathos is a category C airport and landing and take off there is usually restricted to the captain. That said, Volos can be an awkward little airport for many of the reasons that have already been mentioned. ATC and ATC co-ordination often results in aircraft being very high when approaching the airfield. Topography and "valley effect winds" can have a significant influence. Thermals are also very prevalent and often give rise to turbulence on the approaches. From the description you give it sounds very much as if the pitching and rolling sensations you experienced where as a result of such turbulence.
I am not sure if the landing was smooth, felt like a 4.5 magnitude Earthquake, or possibly was the cause of it? But in any event, we have all been there and whilst everyone endeavours to kiss the ground where prudent, it doesn't always happen! On those rare (ahem) occasions when it has happened to me over the last 30 years, I used to tell the cabin crew that we avoided a family of baby ducks on the runway, and it thumped down as a result. You then went from villain to hero in 10 seconds! However now you mention the 4.5 magnitude Earthquake (and the duck story has worn a bit thin,) I might tuck that one away for future reference.
Many of these flights operate with split loads, with some customers disembarking in JSI (Skiathos) and some in VOL (Nea Anchialos.) Which way around depends on timing factors and sometimes the aircraft that is utilized. The route is served by both 320/1 and B757 aircraft. The latters performance enables it to operate from the short runway at Skiathos directly back to the UK with less of a penalty restriction. However apron capacity at Skiathos will often put a practical restriction on which way around the flight is programmed.
Skiathos is a category C airport and landing and take off there is usually restricted to the captain. That said, Volos can be an awkward little airport for many of the reasons that have already been mentioned. ATC and ATC co-ordination often results in aircraft being very high when approaching the airfield. Topography and "valley effect winds" can have a significant influence. Thermals are also very prevalent and often give rise to turbulence on the approaches. From the description you give it sounds very much as if the pitching and rolling sensations you experienced where as a result of such turbulence.
I am not sure if the landing was smooth, felt like a 4.5 magnitude Earthquake, or possibly was the cause of it? But in any event, we have all been there and whilst everyone endeavours to kiss the ground where prudent, it doesn't always happen! On those rare (ahem) occasions when it has happened to me over the last 30 years, I used to tell the cabin crew that we avoided a family of baby ducks on the runway, and it thumped down as a result. You then went from villain to hero in 10 seconds! However now you mention the 4.5 magnitude Earthquake (and the duck story has worn a bit thin,) I might tuck that one away for future reference.
Sadly, I know only too well that it is mil ATC. Volos is like a second base for me, we spend a lot of time there. As POTC and I said earlier, they tend to keep us very high on the profile, even when you call visual with the field/ground etc. it's not unusual to be approaching PIRAK at FL100. Macedonia control don't usually release us early enough to keep a constant descent going, but Volos TWR are obviously still paranoid due to the C130 incident you mention. Usually a late landing clearance even when you are the only aircraft in the sky also, just inefficient.
Still, it's great to see F4's and F16's duffing up the place!
Still, it's great to see F4's and F16's duffing up the place!
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Thanks for all that info - very helpful. When we landed the actually landing was OK - the turbulance was in the air and the landing itself OK. Having landed in Volos many times we have always wondered why we seem to have had a disprortionate amount of uneasy landings there despie having such a long runway. e always wondered why we seemed to have such a steep descent and this explains things. As a less than enthusiastic flyer knowing the technical reason for the steeper descent really puts my mind at ease.
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Welcome to the Cabin and congratulations on getting through your first flight with us unscathed. (The regulars will know what I mean ... )
Welcome to the Cabin and congratulations on getting through your first flight with us unscathed. (The regulars will know what I mean ... )
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4.3 magnitude earthquake near Vólos, Magnisia, Greece and Athens, Attiki, Greece : June 06, 2014 12:21
there WAS an earthquake in Volos on that date but the timing is wrong
4.3 magnitude earthquake 68 km from Vólos, Magnisia, Greece
20 days ago
UTC time: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:21 PM
Your time: Friday, June 6 2014 1:21 PM
No tsunami statement issued
Magnitude Type: mb
USGS page: M 4.3 - 5km NNW of Skopelos, Greece
USGS status: Reviewed by a seismologist
Reports from the public: 2 people
there WAS an earthquake in Volos on that date but the timing is wrong
4.3 magnitude earthquake 68 km from Vólos, Magnisia, Greece
20 days ago
UTC time: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:21 PM
Your time: Friday, June 6 2014 1:21 PM
No tsunami statement issued
Magnitude Type: mb
USGS page: M 4.3 - 5km NNW of Skopelos, Greece
USGS status: Reviewed by a seismologist
Reports from the public: 2 people
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I was sailing in the Pacific back to my home island on this thing a few months ago, it was a rough day anyway bordering on "vomit conditions", when there was an earthquake and all of a sudden some three "mega waves" hit us, the boat must have gone pretty much upright on it's bow or it's stern and such were the force of the waves they actually broke the boat pushing a port hole inwards and cracking a bulkhead.
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Not that deep, it wasn't a tsunami, the sea was more than ideally rough that day anyway, I mean it really was unpleasant, then all of a sudden the Captain cut the engines just as these mega waves knocked us for six, it was only when I got home people were asking me "did you feel the earthquake?"