Pilot Trec Smith and Marree man.
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Probably better that you don't get into "that debate", spinex.
On aviation matters, your comments are often quite good.
Know something about environmental matters, do you?
Your comment about "erosion and pestilence" would suggest otherwise.
Having chatted with a couple of my aboriginal friends, the consensus seems to be that it was quite good and its restoration would be welcomed.
But, what would I know?
Being just an ignorant whitefella, perhaps I should just stick to mowing my front lawn on Saturday afternoons.
On aviation matters, your comments are often quite good.
Know something about environmental matters, do you?
Your comment about "erosion and pestilence" would suggest otherwise.
Having chatted with a couple of my aboriginal friends, the consensus seems to be that it was quite good and its restoration would be welcomed.
But, what would I know?
Being just an ignorant whitefella, perhaps I should just stick to mowing my front lawn on Saturday afternoons.
Having chatted with a couple of my aboriginal friends, the consensus seems to be that it was quite good and its restoration would be welcomed.
DF.
Stanwell, I suspect we are suffering from the not unusual interwebs phenomenon of misunderstanding each other's point - at least I hope so, I'd be mildly miffed if I thought you were trying to shut me down because I differed from your perspective. In my case, I have a bad habit of transmitting with my tongue firmly lodged in cheek, which occasionally inhibits reception apparently. As to environmental matters, I claim no particular expertise, but my day job does require me to know a little about a lot and be able to assimilate expert opinion from others. I have had some involvement in environmental rehabilitation out in that sort of countryside and from my vaguely lay perspective was questioning the assertions of lasting harm being caused, given that the scars had essentially disappeared in 18 odd years.
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DF,
No, one from western NSW and the other from SW Qld.
Elders, though.
Nonetheless, I somehow think their opinions might carry a little more weight than that of a mere whitey.
spinex,
Yes, thanks - and my apologies.
I still do think that proper consideration should be given to the restoration of that feature, though.
The reaction to that image from the 'Aboriginal Nation', (as opposed to a collection of warring tribes), was, I got the impression, quite positive.
I'm anticipating that somebody's now going to charge in with an accusation that the Marree Man is nothing more than a depiction of a 'noble savage'.
I'll just get back to mowing my lawn.
.
No, one from western NSW and the other from SW Qld.
Elders, though.
Nonetheless, I somehow think their opinions might carry a little more weight than that of a mere whitey.
spinex,
Yes, thanks - and my apologies.
I still do think that proper consideration should be given to the restoration of that feature, though.
The reaction to that image from the 'Aboriginal Nation', (as opposed to a collection of warring tribes), was, I got the impression, quite positive.
I'm anticipating that somebody's now going to charge in with an accusation that the Marree Man is nothing more than a depiction of a 'noble savage'.
I'll just get back to mowing my lawn.
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 15th Aug 2016 at 01:20.
DF,
No, one from western NSW and the other from SW Qld.
Elders, though.
Nonetheless, I somehow think their opinions might carry a little more weight than that of a mere whitey.
No, one from western NSW and the other from SW Qld.
Elders, though.
Nonetheless, I somehow think their opinions might carry a little more weight than that of a mere whitey.
DF.
I think there's enough of a boost to aviation & other fields in the area right now with the water in Lake Eyre. And yes there has been talk of going over it again, but it's not going to happen.
DF.
DF.
Flew over it this morning, vehicles on the ground around it and the entire Man has already been graded once, and looks like the deeper cuts bringing back the white contrast underneath have already commenced around his right arm.
Few more inquiries I made today revealed one of the local station owners has been hired to do the grading.
I'll try and post a few pics in the next few days as the work develops.
Few more inquiries I made today revealed one of the local station owners has been hired to do the grading.
DF.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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he Marree Man will never be re-instated, for the simple reasons that even the smallest amount of environmental damage to flora in semi-desert country is no longer tolerated, nor acceptable. For the same reason the Readymix logo on the Nullarbor will never be re-instated.
Photo taken today.
image via Marree Hotel FB.
So Dick asks an ostensibly innocuous 'where are they now' question just over a week ago, and magically....
Just a coincidence, no doubt.
Just a coincidence, no doubt.
Dick: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
And is that actually fresh, or is it still the remnants of the original at an oblique angle and the vegetation at a time of year that makes it stand out?
And FWIW, you can still see the Readymix sign, if you know where to look. I saw it a few months back from the FD from FL380.
And is that actually fresh, or is it still the remnants of the original at an oblique angle and the vegetation at a time of year that makes it stand out?
And FWIW, you can still see the Readymix sign, if you know where to look. I saw it a few months back from the FD from FL380.
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its fresh... and even if its aboriginal land, money still talks..
just look at the bushland around Menai in Sydney, National parks and the local aboriginal community were fighting for ownership of it, of course, the original owners got their land back, and next week, bulldozers were clearing away a new sub division..
just look at the bushland around Menai in Sydney, National parks and the local aboriginal community were fighting for ownership of it, of course, the original owners got their land back, and next week, bulldozers were clearing away a new sub division..
Story now on the ABC news website
Marree Man restored as outback tourist attraction in far north SA - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Marree Man restored as outback tourist attraction in far north SA - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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How did the mining company get approval to replace the huge bore pipe line if no one not allowed to disturb vegetation thes days?
As in every part of our general lives today, we are obliged to follow laws, regulations and rules that ensure people do not indulge in actions that seriously affect others safety, destroy the environment, seriously pollute, or generally create serious upset and mayhem that causes disruption to our civilised society.
We are also bound by international agreements to protect our natural environment and flora and fauna, so that it is not destroyed or even made extinct by careless, uncontrolled actions.
There are many laws in Australia that completely govern the movement or alteration of the soil and earth without official authority.
As I can no more fly my little aircraft into Sydney Kingsford Smith airport without reference to anyone, thus creating mayhem - then similarly, I can no more go out into the countryside with my earthmoving equipment, and dig holes and displace soil and vegetation, without official approvals in place - without incurring the wrath of some powerful authorities, and the subsequent serious monetary and possibly freedom-restricting penalties.
The over-riding authority controlling the alteration of the landscape in Australia is the EPA. There are levels of landscape alteration that need EPA approval. You need to check with the EPA if what you plan requires an EPA permit.
The next level of authority is the Mining & Petroleum Depts or agencies of each State. These people have serious control of landscape alteration within the State. You may not dig a hole or knock down a tree in your search for minerals or oil and gas, without applying to them for approval. You have to submit plans for what you intend to do, meet the applicable laws and regulations - and once you have written M&P Dept approval - which often contains a list of restrictions on what you plan to do - you can then go ahead with digging holes and knocking down trees - within the strict limits of the Dept instructions.
The third layer of landscape control is with the relevant State Parks and Wildlife Depts. These Depts have strict and intensive control over vast areas of Australia. If you plan to do any landscape alteration in areas under P&W control, you need authorisation and approval.
The fourth layer of control - and this is for Aboriginal Lands - is with the State Govts Aboriginal Depts, Aboriginal Land Councils, and Aboriginal Land Trusts, who are administering the Aboriginal Lands.
All these bodies are instituted and operated under specific Acts of Australian Law. Landscape alterations and changes, developments, mining approvals, and roads within Aboriginal Lands are supervised and controlled by these Depts and Councils, and any plans for land alterations or changes, or plans for intensive development, within the Aboriginal Lands under the respective Depts and Councils control, must be presented to those Depts and Councils - whereby they are assessed, the Aboriginal Land owners consulted and their approval sought - and then, after the agreement of the land owners has been acquired, and all other law requirements met, then the alteration or development is approved.
There are sizeable numbers of mining, and oil and gas companies, who have agreements in place with Aboriginal Land Councils and Trusts to carry out authorised mining and oil and gas activities on Aboriginal Lands.
These people submit their proposed plans to the Councils and Trusts and the ensuing agreement is thrashed out - taking into account, Aboriginal tribal agreement and sensitivities, Aboriginal sacred grounds, environmental protection laws, other specific laws relating to Mining and Petroleum Acts - and there is always a huge list of requirements to be met, if development approval is given.
A mining company proposing a pipeline will have to submit a huge development proposal that meets all the legislative requirements, and it has to be approved by various other State Depts, as well as the Aboriginal Lands Councils or Trusts.
The pipeline proposal will have to address how it will minimise flora and fauna destruction, minimise general environmental destruction, control runoff and pollution, and address revegetation issues during the construction and completion phases.
Failure to address or control any of the preceding issues, results in serious penalties of the monetary or freedom-restricting kind.
In reality, there isn't much difference to getting approval to carve a huge etching in the earth around Marree, than there is in, say, you getting approval to erect some monstrous outlandish development on your suburban property.
You still need to submit plans, and get approval from the various controlling authorities and departments, and meet all the relevant laws that cover planning, environmental conditions, and probably a dozen other conditions imposed by governing authorities - that have all been developed over many centuries, to ensure the smooth operation of our highly-developed society.
I have a feeling of foreboding that the people who re-instated the Marree Man without reference to any controlling authority will now be facing some serious penalties for environmental destruction.
In simple terms, I'd say the airborne ordure is about to hit a set of spinning propeller-like devices.
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As I can no more fly my little aircraft into Sydney Kingsford Smith airport without reference to anyone,
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It seems fairly obvious that Phil Turner has been on a "mission" to restore the Marree Man - and thereby, hopefully restore the tourist income on which he so obviously depends. To that end, he's even convinced one journalist he's on the right track.
Opinion - Rex Jory - Mangling the Marree Man
The claim that the re-instating of the Marree Man will increase tourism to Northern S.A. by 8% and add tourism value by $22M seems a little optimistic, to say the least.
I understand that Phil Turner is seriously intent on driving anything that might add some tourist attractiveness to an area that many people still see as pretty barren and remote - which is fully understandable, seeing as he has a vested interest in doing so.
However, the re-instating of the Marree Man without any official authority is a bold move by Phil Turner, and one which I fear will cost him accordingly.
In essence, the issues at the heart of the etching are;
1. The original etching work was an illegal act, anyway. It contravened many laws, including environmental laws and the Aboriginal Heritage Act.
The fact that the original etching was done anonymously, and with the continued aim of anonymity, shows the original constructor was aware of the highly illegal nature of his construction, and the need to avoid identification and possible penalties.
2. Re-instating the etching without approval or official authorisation, has only perpetuated the original problem.
3. I believe the original etching constructor and possibly Phil Turner as well, has taken advantage of the divisiness amongst the multiple local tribes, who are at loggerheads over control of the area around Lake Eyre - and at loggerheads of how to interpret and apply Aboriginal beliefs and religious restrictions to any proposed development - to over-ride any required official authorisation - both from the Aboriginals themselves, and from the relevant Govt Depts, to just "take matters into his own hands", and carry out the landscape work, without reference to any of the relevant groups.
The Aboriginal Heritage Act is a far-reaching piece of legislation that places the onus on any person wishing to alter the landscape in Australia, where Aboriginal title has been determined to still exist - to carry out research into the location of, and possible serious degradation or damage to, Aboriginal sacred sites - and to log the location of those sites, interpret their level of importance, and to provide written plans on how those sites will be protected under the provisions of the Aboriginal Heritage Act.
The simple fact that no development plan was ever submitted, and no research into Aboriginal Heritage sites was ever carried out - in both the construction of the original etching, and in the re-instating of the etching, is something that has to be addressed - and I strongly suspect Phil Turner will be having to address this failure in front of a magistrate, in the not-too-far-distant future.
Opinion - Rex Jory - Mangling the Marree Man
The claim that the re-instating of the Marree Man will increase tourism to Northern S.A. by 8% and add tourism value by $22M seems a little optimistic, to say the least.
I understand that Phil Turner is seriously intent on driving anything that might add some tourist attractiveness to an area that many people still see as pretty barren and remote - which is fully understandable, seeing as he has a vested interest in doing so.
However, the re-instating of the Marree Man without any official authority is a bold move by Phil Turner, and one which I fear will cost him accordingly.
In essence, the issues at the heart of the etching are;
1. The original etching work was an illegal act, anyway. It contravened many laws, including environmental laws and the Aboriginal Heritage Act.
The fact that the original etching was done anonymously, and with the continued aim of anonymity, shows the original constructor was aware of the highly illegal nature of his construction, and the need to avoid identification and possible penalties.
2. Re-instating the etching without approval or official authorisation, has only perpetuated the original problem.
3. I believe the original etching constructor and possibly Phil Turner as well, has taken advantage of the divisiness amongst the multiple local tribes, who are at loggerheads over control of the area around Lake Eyre - and at loggerheads of how to interpret and apply Aboriginal beliefs and religious restrictions to any proposed development - to over-ride any required official authorisation - both from the Aboriginals themselves, and from the relevant Govt Depts, to just "take matters into his own hands", and carry out the landscape work, without reference to any of the relevant groups.
The Aboriginal Heritage Act is a far-reaching piece of legislation that places the onus on any person wishing to alter the landscape in Australia, where Aboriginal title has been determined to still exist - to carry out research into the location of, and possible serious degradation or damage to, Aboriginal sacred sites - and to log the location of those sites, interpret their level of importance, and to provide written plans on how those sites will be protected under the provisions of the Aboriginal Heritage Act.
The simple fact that no development plan was ever submitted, and no research into Aboriginal Heritage sites was ever carried out - in both the construction of the original etching, and in the re-instating of the etching, is something that has to be addressed - and I strongly suspect Phil Turner will be having to address this failure in front of a magistrate, in the not-too-far-distant future.
How did the mining company get approval to replace the huge bore pipe line if no one not allowed to disturb vegetation thes days?
DF.
I have a feeling of foreboding that the people who re-instated the Marree Man without reference to any controlling authority will now be facing some serious penalties for environmental destruction.
In simple terms, I'd say the airborne ordure is about to hit a set of spinning propeller-like devices.
In simple terms, I'd say the airborne ordure is about to hit a set of spinning propeller-like devices.
DF.
P.S. Where are the great unwashed that protested at YOLD a few weeks ago when you need them?
It seems fairly obvious that Phil Turner has been on a "mission" to restore the Marree Man - and thereby, hopefully restore the tourist income on which he so obviously depends.
DF.