China Southern trainee bangs up a Grob - Merredin
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China Southern trainee bangs up a Grob - Merredin
Well, I guess it's better that he bangs up a Grob, and learns what he did wrong, rather than banging up a heavy full of pax. 
No-one hurt - just another Grob needed - it doesn't look like this one will be flying again for a while.
Meeja reports "extensive wing and tail damage" - however, the wing and tail look like they sustained minimal damage to me - but the Meeja apparently overlooked the minor nose damage ....
I'm utterly amazed no-ones been out there with the black spray paint on the rego, already ....
Pilot survives Merredin plane crash
No-one hurt - just another Grob needed - it doesn't look like this one will be flying again for a while.
Meeja reports "extensive wing and tail damage" - however, the wing and tail look like they sustained minimal damage to me - but the Meeja apparently overlooked the minor nose damage ....
I'm utterly amazed no-ones been out there with the black spray paint on the rego, already ....
Pilot survives Merredin plane crash
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They NEVER "...jump into the right seat with 200 - 300 hours...".
Please don't let the facts get in the way of a good lark. They may well be promised a job with their sponsor-carrier, but they won't be doing any take-offs of landings with punters in the back for a few years.
Fact is, they will sit in the jumpseat working the radio while a couple of other pilots sit in the front seat (both of whom will have been with the airline for a good few years).
Progression is from jumpseat of narrowbody, to jumpseat of widebody (although they might be allowed into the front seat of either earlier, they won't be PF for the actual T/O or LDG with pax onboard - not even when TCs or CCs are in the left seat ((always some few exceptions to the rule, but...)), then back to narrowbody to learn how to fly airliners before being promoted to Captain on narrowbody. The whole schlemiel takes about 5 to 8 years.
This poor beggar will probably be washed-out by CSA as a result of his 'embarrassing performance'. I feel a bit sorry for him.
Please don't let the facts get in the way of a good lark. They may well be promised a job with their sponsor-carrier, but they won't be doing any take-offs of landings with punters in the back for a few years.
Fact is, they will sit in the jumpseat working the radio while a couple of other pilots sit in the front seat (both of whom will have been with the airline for a good few years).
Progression is from jumpseat of narrowbody, to jumpseat of widebody (although they might be allowed into the front seat of either earlier, they won't be PF for the actual T/O or LDG with pax onboard - not even when TCs or CCs are in the left seat ((always some few exceptions to the rule, but...)), then back to narrowbody to learn how to fly airliners before being promoted to Captain on narrowbody. The whole schlemiel takes about 5 to 8 years.
This poor beggar will probably be washed-out by CSA as a result of his 'embarrassing performance'. I feel a bit sorry for him.
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Sad to see... at least they walked away so that's a win! 
Going on further, some DO go straight into the right seat after their condensed training in Oz/NZ etc... India, Indonesia, Singapore crew to name just a few.
The big issue that really needs to be tackled fiercely, given this lack of co-ordination skills* is
. Further reference and discussion is here on Pprune also.
*:Having seen it first hand and with accidents such as Asiana/SFO & other occurrences (many which escape media attention such as hard landings etc) it is becoming a real issue.
Discussing this with colleagues from other parts of the world one night together it was interesting what came about. Parallels in life were used, from different cultures and a consensus came about, that sadly many in the Asian & other cultures simply don't have the same depth perception, motor skills and co-ordination due to their protected upbringing... ie they have never climbed a ladder/tree to get off the ground; never driven a car/operated machinery; never been active in team sports/large groups which rely on peripheral vision and open team feedback/co-ordination...
I could go on but won't but just hope that this reply of mine gives some of you something to chew on and motivates some at least, to look at themselves in a room full of mirrors (as we all do, regularly, in this industry!) and adapt accordingly, in this knowledge.
Happy landings
Going on further, some DO go straight into the right seat after their condensed training in Oz/NZ etc... India, Indonesia, Singapore crew to name just a few.
The big issue that really needs to be tackled fiercely, given this lack of co-ordination skills* is
*:Having seen it first hand and with accidents such as Asiana/SFO & other occurrences (many which escape media attention such as hard landings etc) it is becoming a real issue.
Discussing this with colleagues from other parts of the world one night together it was interesting what came about. Parallels in life were used, from different cultures and a consensus came about, that sadly many in the Asian & other cultures simply don't have the same depth perception, motor skills and co-ordination due to their protected upbringing... ie they have never climbed a ladder/tree to get off the ground; never driven a car/operated machinery; never been active in team sports/large groups which rely on peripheral vision and open team feedback/co-ordination...
I could go on but won't but just hope that this reply of mine gives some of you something to chew on and motivates some at least, to look at themselves in a room full of mirrors (as we all do, regularly, in this industry!) and adapt accordingly, in this knowledge.
Happy landings
Chocks, sounds the same as how the WW2 Japs would be terrible pilots because their mothers carried them too long as toddlers and had underdeveloped proprioception, utter rubbish....
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Proprioception is the word thanks Mail-man but not "utter rubbish"... unless you wish to go against consensus of those that live and deal with it on a daily basis... of course, there are those that deny the studies and the existence of it but that's where the accidents are about to happen.
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Our company is somewhere around 30% SO/MPL and this guys fly, narrow/wide body, right seat, from day one once they come out of sim. Bare in mind MPL guys are in the sim with 20-30Hrs total Cessna time.
Bare in mind...
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sounds the same as how the WW2 Japs would be terrible pilots because their mothers carried them too long as toddlers and had underdeveloped proprioception, utter rubbish....
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Of course, we've all seen how Asians drive and park their cars! - so we'd naturally expect they'd be pretty bad at driving aircraft, too!
Seriously; there are people with natural skills - and those who can't handle a rubber sword without injuring themselves.
The trick is having instructors who can determine fairly rapidly whether a person has the innate ability to handle what he's being taught to drive - and whether that person has the good judgement to match.
In this case, this trainee looks to be falling short on ability to judge an unstable approach in gusty conditions.
He'd better work on improving that judgement - because I'd hate to see him make a serious error of judgement later on, when he's driving a bus-load of pax onto the ground.
Seriously; there are people with natural skills - and those who can't handle a rubber sword without injuring themselves.
The trick is having instructors who can determine fairly rapidly whether a person has the innate ability to handle what he's being taught to drive - and whether that person has the good judgement to match.
In this case, this trainee looks to be falling short on ability to judge an unstable approach in gusty conditions.
He'd better work on improving that judgement - because I'd hate to see him make a serious error of judgement later on, when he's driving a bus-load of pax onto the ground.
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All pretty quick to come to a conclusion as per normal...
Why is only 1 prop blade bent?
Where is the TAF?
Where is the pre-crash picture from airliners.net?
Where is Planky?
Where are the "lets wait for the ATSB" comments?
Why is only 1 prop blade bent?
Where is the TAF?
Where is the pre-crash picture from airliners.net?
Where is Planky?
Where are the "lets wait for the ATSB" comments?
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XXX, that made me laugh. You have got a few of the inane comments though, including some who can't even be bothered to read the article and wonder what caused the crash, those who think that the shape of someone's eyes or where they were born determines their piloting skills (no matter that they were trained by Australian instructors in Australia) and even somebody trotting out that tedious diatribe about the Children Of Magenta 
I'm just glad the fantastic training, skill and superiority of being Australian means we never f*#k up
I'm just glad the fantastic training, skill and superiority of being Australian means we never f*#k up
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Jack,
I appreciate the SFO crash was a c o c k up of the very highest order (it comes out with 'dog' if I don't insert spaces), entirely preventable and the causes of it were greatly influenced by Asian 'culture' issues. Being based in Asia I am also very aware of those types of issues.
However, while everyone carps on about the abilities of Asian pilots on the basis of that accident we ignore some pretty big screw ups by non-Asian carriers. It has been very fortunate that no deaths have occurred but that has been more luck than judgement: SWA landing at the wrong airport and, just prior to that, the 748 doing the same thing. Both good operators, both screwed up royally and were just lucky the concrete was long enough in both incidents or the results could have been very different and there would be baying for blood of all American pilots because they can't get basic stuff like that right. What of BA that managed to hit a dirty great building? Unlikely to result in deaths, I know, but still a good example of a non-Asian carrier, with well trained pilots, damaging a perfectly good aircraft on a gin-clear day/night.
Mine might be a rather simplistic view but the Grob incident raised such idiotic suggestions that I couldn't let it pass without comment. Kamikaze pilots, idiotic video regarding modern flight decks etc; would these same topics been aired if the pilot was an Australian student who crashed a Jandakot trainer in the same weather or will that simply never happen because he's not Asian?
I appreciate the SFO crash was a c o c k up of the very highest order (it comes out with 'dog' if I don't insert spaces), entirely preventable and the causes of it were greatly influenced by Asian 'culture' issues. Being based in Asia I am also very aware of those types of issues.
However, while everyone carps on about the abilities of Asian pilots on the basis of that accident we ignore some pretty big screw ups by non-Asian carriers. It has been very fortunate that no deaths have occurred but that has been more luck than judgement: SWA landing at the wrong airport and, just prior to that, the 748 doing the same thing. Both good operators, both screwed up royally and were just lucky the concrete was long enough in both incidents or the results could have been very different and there would be baying for blood of all American pilots because they can't get basic stuff like that right. What of BA that managed to hit a dirty great building? Unlikely to result in deaths, I know, but still a good example of a non-Asian carrier, with well trained pilots, damaging a perfectly good aircraft on a gin-clear day/night.
Mine might be a rather simplistic view but the Grob incident raised such idiotic suggestions that I couldn't let it pass without comment. Kamikaze pilots, idiotic video regarding modern flight decks etc; would these same topics been aired if the pilot was an Australian student who crashed a Jandakot trainer in the same weather or will that simply never happen because he's not Asian?
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...would these same topics been aired if the pilot was an Australian student who crashed a Jandakot trainer in the same weather...
The SFO B777 Asiana accident was caused by the fact that he (they, in the cockpit) lack skills flying visual approaches PLUS a huge lack of mode awareness... i.e. the Autothrottle was off when he was depending on automation to recover i.e. he was expectant on and wanting to "follow the magenta" flight director bars. No basic stick and rudder skils or left-to-right-to-left scan of IAS/Att/Alt-sink rate. Crickey, the green trend arrow below Vref on the B777 speed tape is a warning there also.
Oh how easy to "call the race card" to try and divert the discussion... (something Labour and the Greens are brilliant at!).
Facts are, regardless of what race/colour you wish to tag/pigeon-hole people: we have (like Sth Africa etc) a G.A environment with alot of smaller aircraft where experience is gained. China etc don't. Many of us here as kids climbed trees, played fast & strong team sports where height; depth perception; peripheral vision and speaking up were learnt (often from broken bones)... we drove cars early and learnt to deal with the sensation of speed and depth perception early on... many others in China/Singapore etc simply don't or haven't. They travel on mass public transport or taxis which someone else is co-ordinating while their heads are buried in their smartphones; they don't own let alone drive a car etc etc.
The same accidents are occurring elswhere, yes Fratemate, such as Turkey, India... such as heavy landings but on bigger aircraft!
My comments served only to try and broaden the discussion, from personal experiences of myself and many other experienced airline crew mates, over what is a very real and growing safety issue. The comments were meant to entice further discussion. They were general in nature and not specific on the Grob itself. If you wish to call it bollocks, well you scratch the surface of the younger Generational issue I alluded to earlier, where they are dismissive, egocentric and reluctant to learn from history.
I won't go on, just run for the bunker now